Bailey Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, MikeO said: Examples as blatant as the bus? No they didn't plaster it on a bus but it was still peddled out everywhere. Like getting Obama to say we would go to the back of the queue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 22 minutes ago, Bailey said: No they didn't plaster it on a bus but it was still peddled out everywhere. Like getting Obama to say we would go to the back of the queue. How's that a lie. Surely most countries are gonna prioritise the EU over little England. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 8 hours ago, pete0 said: How's that a lie. Surely most countries are gonna prioritise the EU over little England. Because it's not what the US have said since Brexit was confirmed. It was propaganda, surely you can see that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 10 hours ago, Bailey said: No they didn't plaster it on a bus but it was still peddled out everywhere. Like getting Obama to say we would go to the back of the queue. You seriously believe that Obama would say something just because we asked him to? There is zero comparison. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/eu-referendum-what-the-world-is-saying---britains-historic-decis/ However, the White House on Friday night said that the president stood by his warning that Britain would move to the back of the queue when it comes to trade deals. "Obviously, the president stands by what he said and I don't have an update of our position," White House spokesman Eric Schultz told reporters at a briefing. Obama urged Britain to remain in the EU when he visited London in April and warned that a trade agreement between the two countries would not happen anytime soon if Britain left the bloc. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Neville Southall (@NevilleSouthall) Tweeted: 4 tories go into woods only one comes back Hello Boris https://twitter.com/NevilleSouthall/status/916320641472696321?s=17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 The silences in this thread are sometimes more enlightening than the posts. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 Mandy having a chat with our national broadcaster on Brexit, Theresa May, the buffoonery of BoJo and SSM http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-06/brexit-australia-might-need-to-help-uk-find-its-economic-legs/9021584?section=business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 MikeO and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 On 10/6/2017 at 21:46, MikeO said: The silences in this thread are sometimes more enlightening than the posts. Mike, why should we waste our time trying to convince remoaners, after all, we won. We are getting out and it is the best news since the end of the second world war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 1 minute ago, johnh said: Mike, why should we waste our time trying to convince remoaners, after all, we won. We are getting out and it is the best news since the end of the second world war. No one has won, at least not until there's an actual plan. We're not even getting out if there's no plan, and I wouldn't be surprised if the government requests an extension because "negotiations weren't expected to be this complicated" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 23 minutes ago, johnh said: Mike, why should we waste our time trying to convince remoaners, after all, we won. We are getting out and it is the best news since the end of the second world war. Did you just listen to Theresa May's speech? She hasn't got the vaguest idea what she's doing, it had me in fits of giggles. Impossible to judge whether it's good news or not for at least a decade imo. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 39 minutes ago, MikeO said: Did you just listen to Theresa May's speech? She hasn't got the vaguest idea what she's doing, it had me in fits of giggles. Impossible to judge whether it's good news or not for at least a decade imo. Did you listen to Juncker's speech? If you did, I can't believe that you are still in favour of staying in the EU. He outlined the re-creation of the Soviet Union. He is desperate for a EU Army. This will be followed by a EU police force, and if any country steps out of line they will send the riot police in like in Catalonia. I didn't find it funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 36 minutes ago, johnh said: This will be followed by a EU police force, and if any country steps out of line they will send the riot police in like in Catalonia. Now who's making stuff up and scaremongering? And I'd have no problem at all with an EU army although it's never going to happen; Juncker might want it but he's in a minority. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 On Friday, October 06, 2017 at 09:20, MikeO said: You seriously believe that Obama would say something just because we asked him to? There is zero comparison. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/eu-referendum-what-the-world-is-saying---britains-historic-decis/ However, the White House on Friday night said that the president stood by his warning that Britain would move to the back of the queue when it comes to trade deals. "Obviously, the president stands by what he said and I don't have an update of our position," White House spokesman Eric Schultz told reporters at a briefing. Obama urged Britain to remain in the EU when he visited London in April and warned that a trade agreement between the two countries would not happen anytime soon if Britain left the bloc. In an article in the Guardian shortly after he (or the whitehouse) rephrased the back of the queue to basically say that we wouldnt automatically enjoy the same deal as they just negotiated with the EU (no shit) but that we have a very special relationship. Not quite the same. Obama was rolled out and was made sure a question was asked and phrased his answer to create the exact headline it did. Thats page 1 of the politicians handbook. It's the same BS just a different shade. A manipulation of a possibility, creating a headline of their choosing. It's possible £350 mil could be spent on the NHS but it wont and it's possible we could be at the back of the queue for the US, but we won't. Bullshit is bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 2 hours ago, johnh said: Did you listen to Juncker's speech? If you did, I can't believe that you are still in favour of staying in the EU. He outlined the re-creation of the Soviet Union. He is desperate for a EU Army. This will be followed by a EU police force, and if any country steps out of line they will send the riot police in like in Catalonia. I didn't find it funny. I can't stand the bloke, absolutely despise him and his ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 2 hours ago, MikeO said: Now who's making stuff up and scaremongering? And I'd have no problem at all with an EU army although it's never going to happen; Juncker might want it but he's in a minority. Not like we have Nato... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 On the Juncker speech: much like Verhofstadt, I think he has one major political goal left in his life: to say whatever he can and do whatever he must, to make sure the UK doesn't reconsider leaving. He raised some good points, but as always, the future of the EU is not decided in Brussels but in every capital city in the EU. The real danger for the UK remains that when the Tory leadership finally realizes it wants to stay in the EU, the EU27 will have decided it is better off with the UK out. MikeO, Matt and Chach 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 17 hours ago, MikeO said: Now who's making stuff up and scaremongering? And I'd have no problem at all with an EU army although it's never going to happen; Juncker might want it but he's in a minority. Mike, you say that Juncker is in a minority? Surely you don't believe that his speech wasn't agreed beforehand with the rest of the Liberal elite, particularly with his boss Merkel. No one in the senior ranks of the EU delivers a speech 'off the cuff', they all make sure they speak as one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, johnh said: Mike, you say that Juncker is in a minority? Surely you don't believe that his speech wasn't agreed beforehand with the rest of the Liberal elite, particularly with his boss Merkel. No one in the senior ranks of the EU delivers a speech 'off the cuff', they all make sure they speak as one. I refer you to holystove's above answer. "the future of the EU is not decided in Brussels but in every capital city in the EU" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 hours ago, holystove said: On the Juncker speech: much like Verhofstadt, I think he has one major political goal left in his life: to say whatever he can and do whatever he must, to make sure the UK doesn't reconsider leaving. He raised some good points, but as always, the future of the EU is not decided in Brussels but in every capital city in the EU. The real danger for the UK remains that when the Tory leadership finally realizes it wants to stay in the EU, the EU27 will have decided it is better off with the UK out. The Tory leadership does want to stay in the EU but we live in a democracy and the people voted to leave. I wish the EU would hurry up and realise it is better off without the UK so that they helped rather than hindered us getting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, MikeO said: I refer you to holystove's above answer. "the future of the EU is not decided in Brussels but in every capital city in the EU" I was just about to post a thanks to Holystove for brightening up a rather dull day. Gave me a nice belly laugh that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, MikeO said: I refer you to holystove's above answer. "the future of the EU is not decided in Brussels but in every capital city in the EU" Mad how those who want out of Britain have no problem that their home country is ran out of and solely for the benefit for one City. Yet have problems with the EU who have done more for places like Liverpool than the London/UK government ever has. MikeO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, rubecula said: I wish the EU would hurry up and realise it is better off without the UK so that they helped rather than hindered us getting out. Problem with that is the EU's hands are rather tied. It is a rules based organisation and, on brexit, can only act as instructed by the member states. I'm sure some at the Commission want to go faster, but as long as Ireland doesn't get what it wants on the border, Poland doesn't get its money, etc. things will continue as they currently are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 "Rules are for the guidance of the wise and the blind obedience of fools." yes it is a bit trite but in this instance I fell it is a useful phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 29 minutes ago, rubecula said: "Rules are for the guidance of the wise and the blind obedience of fools." yes it is a bit trite but in this instance I fell it is a useful phrase. I agree. I would like the EU to be able to act much more independently from the member states and to be able to stray from the instructions it has been given. That would require more integration and strengthening of democratic accountability though (pan-European elections, right of initiative to the European Parliament, and so on..). Won't happen as long as (most) member states only view the EU as a tool to further their own national agenda. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, johnh said: the Liberal elite, particularly with his boss Merkel. Brexiteers are funneh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, pete0 said: Mad how those who want out of Britain have no problem that their home country is ran out of and solely for the benefit for one City. Yet have problems with the EU who have done more for places like Liverpool than the London/UK government ever has. I also "enjoy" the irony of Leavers who complain of the democracy in a supposedly over-baring, "un-elected", self-serving politician led EU, who ignore the fact that Britain is made up of exactly the same. 4 countries in 1 union, 3 of which are pretty much ignored by the richest country, and 2 of which voted to remain much more convincingly than the 2 who chose to leave but because they've got less population in the union... What's also funny, is if Britain had joined the Euro all those years ago, London instead of Berlin would probably have been in control of the EU. Except of course they wouldn't, because that's not how the EU works. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 hours ago, holystove said: I agree. I would like the EU to be able to act much more independently from the member states and to be able to stray from the instructions it has been given. That would require more integration and strengthening of democratic accountability though (pan-European elections, right of initiative to the European Parliament, and so on..). Won't happen as long as (most) member states only view the EU as a tool to further their own national agenda. One of the reasons I voted to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 This made me laugh... UK: We're going to hit ourselves on the head with a plank of wood. EU: Um… OK? UK: Seriously, we'll do it unless you give us all the benefits of membership. EU: Seems foolish but go ahead if you must. UK: Don't believe us? Look, here's the receipt from the DIY shop. One 2x4 for £3.50. You don't think we'd spend that much if we weren't serious? EU: No, we believe you are that stupid. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Lovely. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine-41584532/the-truth-about-hate-crime-and-brexit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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