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Brexit...


Hafnia

Referendum  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. In or out?

    • Stay in
      26
    • Leave
      24

This poll is closed to new votes


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3 hours ago, MikeO said:

This made me laugh...

UK: We're going to hit ourselves on the head with a plank of wood.

EU: Um… OK?

UK: Seriously, we'll do it unless you give us all the benefits of membership.

EU: Seems foolish but go ahead if you must.

UK: Don't believe us? Look, here's the receipt from the DIY shop. One 2x4 for £3.50. You don't think we'd spend that much if we weren't serious?

EU: No, we believe you are that stupid.

Mike,  that really is pathetic.  I didn't think you were as easily amused as that.

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11 hours ago, johnh said:

Mike,  that really is pathetic.  I didn't think you were as easily amused as that.

We are diametrically opposed on the subject John; that's not going to change, you consider it pathetic (a bit patronising) while I consider it relevant.

There is one person on the site who is professionally qualified, completely unbiased and knowledgeable on the topic and it's not you or me'; it's the guy you want to laugh at.

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10 hours ago, MikeO said:

We are diametrically opposed on the subject John; that's not going to change, you consider it pathetic (a bit patronising) while I consider it relevant.

There is one person on the site who is professionally qualified, completely unbiased and knowledgeable on the topic and it's not you or me'; it's the guy you want to laugh at.

Is that Rubes? 😃

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14 hours ago, MikeO said:

This made me laugh...

UK: We're going to hit ourselves on the head with a plank of wood.

EU: Um… OK?

UK: Seriously, we'll do it unless you give us all the benefits of membership.

EU: Seems foolish but go ahead if you must.

UK: Don't believe us? Look, here's the receipt from the DIY shop. One 2x4 for £3.50. You don't think we'd spend that much if we weren't serious?

EU: No, we believe you are that stupid.

Not quite as good as the cancelling Sky subscription analogy, but made me chuckle

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11 hours ago, MikeO said:

We are diametrically opposed on the subject John; that's not going to change, you consider it pathetic (a bit patronising) while I consider it relevant.

There is one person on the site who is professionally qualified, completely unbiased and knowledgeable on the topic and it's not you or me'; it's the guy you want to laugh at.

Relevant?  It was schoolboy humour.

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A better analogy might be the healthcare debacle in the US. Obamacare offers medical coverage to many millions who were previously without. Some want a more integrated solution with universal coverage for all, but the country isn't ready for that yet. The Republicans promise to destroy it and they are voted in. Negotiations fail completely, and absolutely no progress is made.

Instead of Obamacare, think Britain's EU membership. Instead of universal healthcare for all, think of Britain joining the euro and giving more power to Europe. Instead of the Republicans, think of the 'Leave' vote. No progress is made in trying to implement the promise and it becomes a fiasco.

What's happening in the US? The president is resolved to sabotage Obamacare by creating instability (so healthcare companies won't invest in the exchanges); by removing "tariffs" and penalties used to fund healthcare for the poor; and by cutting regulations so only partial coverage can be offered in place of real coverage. The result is that many millions will lose healthcare coverage. Is there an analogy to how things will play out in Britain? Will someone unilaterally step in, issue an "executive order", and sabotage Britain's relationship with the EU?

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I should reiterate that I supported the 'Leave' vote, but as a way to gain leverage for Britain separating political union from commercial union. I confess that I believed Britain's leaders were competent and skilled negotiators. What I didn't anticipate was total confusion and incompetence. Not that I was allowed to vote anyway, but... if we could do it over again, I would choose 'Remain'. But that's life: It's difficult to predict the future.

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15 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I should reiterate that I supported the 'Leave' vote, but as a way to gain leverage for Britain separating political union from commercial union. I confess that I believed Britain's leaders were competent and skilled negotiators. What I didn't anticipate was total confusion and incompetence. Not that I was allowed to vote anyway, but... if we could do it over again, I would choose 'Remain'. But that's life: It's difficult to predict the future.

Well put I voted remain and I never dreamt that if leave won it would be the shambles it is, and that's not because I thought leave couldn't win, it's because there campaign convinced people they had a plan and they needed us more than we needed them and they would basically agree to all our wants. Idiots and clueless comes to mind.

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16 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

A better analogy might be the healthcare debacle in the US. Obamacare offers medical coverage to many millions who were previously without. Some want a more integrated solution with universal coverage for all, but the country isn't ready for that yet. The Republicans promise to destroy it and they are voted in. Negotiations fail completely, and absolutely no progress is made.

Instead of Obamacare, think Britain's EU membership. Instead of universal healthcare for all, think of Britain joining the euro and giving more power to Europe. Instead of the Republicans, think of the 'Leave' vote. No progress is made in trying to implement the promise and it becomes a fiasco.

What's happening in the US? The president is resolved to sabotage Obamacare by creating instability (so healthcare companies won't invest in the exchanges); by removing "tariffs" and penalties used to fund healthcare for the poor; and by cutting regulations so only partial coverage can be offered in place of real coverage. The result is that many millions will lose healthcare coverage. Is there an analogy to how things will play out in Britain? Will someone unilaterally step in, issue an "executive order", and sabotage Britain's relationship with the EU?

Two major points of difference spring to mind.

1) if American voters so choose, they can throw out the Republicans (2018) and Trump (2020) and thus save Obamacare.  Brexit on the other hand was decided on 23rd of June 2016 to be the will of the people for all eternity.  (or at least the foreseeable future) .

There was an election in which the current government asked for a stronger mandate to continue their handling of brexit.  They were denied such mandate, yet are proceeding none the less in exactly the same way

2) Trump (and/or the republican establishment) are not affected by whatever happens to Obamacare, they are covered either way.   In a no-deal chaotic brexit, everyone in the UK will take the hit.

--

"will someone step in and sabotage Britain's relationship with the EU?" - actually I believe this is the official government policy, no?

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1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

A better analogy might be the healthcare debacle in the US. Obamacare offers medical coverage to many millions who were previously without. Some want a more integrated solution with universal coverage for all, but the country isn't ready for that yet. The Republicans promise to destroy it and they are voted in. Negotiations fail completely, and absolutely no progress is made.

Instead of Obamacare, think Britain's EU membership. Instead of universal healthcare for all, think of Britain joining the euro and giving more power to Europe. Instead of the Republicans, think of the 'Leave' vote. No progress is made in trying to implement the promise and it becomes a fiasco.

What's happening in the US? The president is resolved to sabotage Obamacare by creating instability (so healthcare companies won't invest in the exchanges); by removing "tariffs" and penalties used to fund healthcare for the poor; and by cutting regulations so only partial coverage can be offered in place of real coverage. The result is that many millions will lose healthcare coverage. Is there an analogy to how things will play out in Britain? Will someone unilaterally step in, issue an "executive order", and sabotage Britain's relationship with the EU?

 

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

I should reiterate that I supported the 'Leave' vote, but as a way to gain leverage for Britain separating political union from commercial union. I confess that I believed Britain's leaders were competent and skilled negotiators. What I didn't anticipate was total confusion and incompetence. Not that I was allowed to vote anyway, but... if we could do it over again, I would choose 'Remain'. But that's life: It's difficult to predict the future.

Self-isolation is a fundamentally self-destructive path. We are social creatures, and it's how we've grown as a society. To isolate ourselves, either as individuals or as a country is a dangerous backward step, especially when those in charge of the country couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, let alone a very long and complex separation plan

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16 hours ago, MikeO said:

Theresa May- "We want to be your strongest friend and partner as the EU and UK thrive side by side."

Phillip Hammond- "The enemy, the opponents, are out there on the other side of the table. Those are the people that we have to negotiate with to get the very best deal for Britain."

Yup:rolleyes:.

Hammond should get out of the way imho.  He is a dinosaur.

 

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On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 18:16, MikeO said:

Theresa May- "We want to be your strongest friend and partner as the EU and UK thrive side by side."

Phillip Hammond- "The enemy, the opponents, are out there on the other side of the table. Those are the people that we have to negotiate with to get the very best deal for Britain."

Yup:rolleyes:.

They are both as useless as each other... 😩

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/  (behind paywall:  Foreign Direct Investment fell by £145 billion to a £25 billion deficit.  The article links this directly to brexit as it states "the apparent resilience of FDI flows shortly after brexit was an illusion: the spending that took place in late 2016 had already been committed earlier.")

Forget all the back and forth on citizens rights, etc..  It's stuff like this that will break the deadlock, as it did with Greece.

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On 16/10/2017 at 08:06, holystove said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/15/britains-missing-billions-revised-figures-reveal-uk-490bn-poorer/  (behind paywall:  Foreign Direct Investment fell by £145 billion to a £25 billion deficit.  The article links this directly to brexit as it states "the apparent resilience of FDI flows shortly after brexit was an illusion: the spending that took place in late 2016 had already been committed earlier.")

Forget all the back and forth on citizens rights, etc..  It's stuff like this that will break the deadlock, as it did with Greece.

there is no deadlock, we voted to leave and we are or the government will fall.  If the EU do not want us to leave the that is tough, for those that voted to remain it is tough,  but we are leaving, no matter what anyone thinks.  Sorry if it offends but it is a fact of life, nothing can stop it now.

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2 hours ago, rubecula said:

there is no deadlock, we voted to leave and we are or the government will fall.  If the EU do not want us to leave the that is tough, for those that voted to remain it is tough,  but we are leaving, no matter what anyone thinks.  Sorry if it offends but it is a fact of life, nothing can stop it now.

I don't think anyone is questioning the fact the UK is leaving, Rubes.  The negotiations are about how the UK leaves (yes/no withdrawal agreement, and subsequently yes/no trade deal), and they are currently deadlocked.

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12 hours ago, holystove said:

I don't think anyone is questioning the fact the UK is leaving, Rubes.  The negotiations are about how the UK leaves (yes/no withdrawal agreement, and subsequently yes/no trade deal), and they are currently deadlocked.

many negotiations as far as I can see are red herrings,  negotiations will continue for many years after we leave.

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