rubecula Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 no confidence in the leadership, even less in EU leadership, who apparently want to redraw political boundaries in UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 9 hours ago, rubecula said: no confidence in the leadership, even less in EU leadership, who apparently want to redraw political boundaries in UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Matt said: On the telly news last night Matt. BBC and ITV not sure abut other stations, Andrew Neil mentioned it on his show I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 minute ago, rubecula said: On the telly news last night Matt. BBC and ITV not sure abut other stations, Andrew Neil mentioned it on his show I think. Can't see anything on either website apart from May getting to the point of begging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, Matt said: Can't see anything on either website apart from May getting to the point of begging Odd, I know I didn't dream it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 The Conservatives want to redraw the boundaries to consolidate their power. Not sure what that has to do with Brexit though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 This is how all EU myths get started Matt and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: The Conservatives want to redraw the boundaries to consolidate their power. Not sure what that has to do with Brexit though? Nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit or the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 Apologies for the source (and it's a couple of weeks old) but this gobsmacked me. We all know Boris is only out for himself but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 5 hours ago, MikeO said: Apologies for the source (and it's a couple of weeks old) but this gobsmacked me. We all know Boris is only out for himself but still. I could never take political news in that rag seriously, yes it may be true but it is a bit hypocritical of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, rubecula said: I could never take political news in that rag seriously, yes it may be true but it is a bit hypocritical of them. Right wing press criticising right wing politician for being a self serving tosser? I'd call it enlightening rather than hypocritical. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 20, 2017 Report Share Posted October 20, 2017 2 hours ago, MikeO said: Right wing press criticising right wing politician for being a self serving tosser? I'd call it enlightening rather than hypocritical. maybe so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/25/remainers-moaning-stupidity-voters-soft-brexit-bloomberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 Quote I am told that Mr Johnson’s response when presented with inconvenient truths is to cover his ears and hum the national anthem until the bearers of the bad news go away. One of the things that gets him humming most loudly is the hard evidence that falling back on WTO rules would decimate Britain’s professional services businesses. https://amp.ft.com/content/5898bde4-b992-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852 pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 26, 2017 Report Share Posted October 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, holystove said: https://amp.ft.com/content/5898bde4-b992-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852 Behind a pay wall sadly; I'd like to read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted October 27, 2017 Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 10 hours ago, MikeO said: Behind a pay wall sadly; I'd like to read it. To be clear I don't think the article has any special new insights and I'm sure it won't convince anyone who wants to brexit, I only posted that paragraph (which the political editor of FT has confirmed is the actual truth, not satire) because I think it confirms that Johnson has already gone off the deep end. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 27, 2017 Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 Thanks @holystove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41774817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 6 hours ago, rubecula said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41774817 Freudian slip in the highest rated comment? "Why do so many people in the EU upper echelons think its all about money. Many many Brexit voters are more concerned about the threat of creeping federalism, further loss of self control on issues such as uncontrolled immigration, laws, security, economic matters, trade etc. Brexit will be seen as an outstandingly good thing we did when we look back in tears to come." pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Matt Posted October 31, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Had to chuckle holystove, MikeO, Quinn31 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 "let them eat sovereignty" Well played, sir. Matt, pete0, MikeO and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 1, 2017 Report Share Posted November 1, 2017 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41829107 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 Looking like a pretty laughable proposal and decision from this side of the pond. Mind you, I am unabashedly pro immigration and pro trade, but the virtual and literal walls some politicians tout in order to gain power or money runs directly against the changes that the world is going through whether it be with or without the Western Establishment. Ideas, Goods, Services, People, and Capital are increasingly mobile and arbitrary borders prohibit economic growth. Sure, globalization and automation has left some behind, but its advanced the standard of living for so many more people. The political movements like Brexit are an example of power-grabbing politicians manipulating people into cutting off their arm to spite their hand. More damage will be done and progress unhad than problems will be fixed. Good luck, Beijing (and be careful what you wish for), the torch is yours and our fate is in your hands, as Washington, Paris, London, Brussels, and increasingly Frankfurt are failing us. MikeO, Chach and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 20, 2017 Report Share Posted November 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Quinn31 said: Looking like a pretty laughable proposal and decision from this side of the pond. Mind you, I am unabashedly pro immigration and pro trade, but the virtual and literal walls some politicians tout in order to gain power or money runs directly against the changes that the world is going through whether it be with or without the Western Establishment. Ideas, Goods, Services, People, and Capital are increasingly mobile and arbitrary borders prohibit economic growth. Sure, globalization and automation has left some behind, but its advanced the standard of living for so many more people. The political movements like Brexit are an example of power-grabbing politicians manipulating people into cutting off their arm to spite their hand. More damage will be done and progress unhad than problems will be fixed. Good luck, Beijing (and be careful what you wish for), the torch is yours and our fate is in your hand, as Washington, Paris, London, Brussels, and increasingly Frankfurt are failing us. Nobody will be surprised to hear that I think that's a brilliant shout, extremely well expressed. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 On 20/11/2017 at 19:02, Quinn31 said: Looking like a pretty laughable proposal and decision from this side of the pond. Mind you, I am unabashedly pro immigration and pro trade, but the virtual and literal walls some politicians tout in order to gain power or money runs directly against the changes that the world is going through whether it be with or without the Western Establishment. Ideas, Goods, Services, People, and Capital are increasingly mobile and arbitrary borders prohibit economic growth. Sure, globalization and automation has left some behind, but its advanced the standard of living for so many more people. The political movements like Brexit are an example of power-grabbing politicians manipulating people into cutting off their arm to spite their hand. More damage will be done and progress unhad than problems will be fixed. You say this as if Brexit can't also be pro immigration and pro trade. Brexit shouldn' be about building walls it should be about welcoming and trading with everyone and not just primarily the EU. Theoretically Brexit allows the UK to do everything you have said on its own terms. I know it' not as simple as that, but you know what, it should be. It's the other countries and politicians generlly that make things complicated. This is probably a bad example but Imagine if the US had to do everything the other countries in the Americas wanted to do? The majority of voters in your country want to build a wall with Mexico! I think it' safe to say it wouldn' go down well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 16 hours ago, Bailey said: You say this as if Brexit can't also be pro immigration and pro trade. Brexit shouldn' be about building walls it should be about welcoming and trading with everyone and not just primarily the EU. Being a member of the EU in no way restricts the UK to trade with everyone, it just extremely facilitates trade within the EU. It also massivily helps the UK to trade outside of the EU. There are only 6 countries (not important ones, Mauritania, North Korea, etc.) on the entire planet the EU has zero agreements with, because of Brexit that number will increase to 195 for the UK. Sure, the UK will negotiate new agreements, but it will do so with a lot less leverage than it has now as a member of the EU. No matter what the future relationship between the EU and the UK (at worst WTO), the UK will always trade primarily with the EU because of geography. Brexit can't be pro trade, but in theory it can be pro immigration. However I don't really think choosing that route would be a right interpretation of the Brexit vote. 16 hours ago, Bailey said: Theoretically Brexit allows the UK to do everything you have said on its own terms. I know it' not as simple as that, but you know what, it should be. It's the other countries and politicians generlly that make things complicated. The very moment the UK enters into negotations with any other entity in the world, it will have to compromise. Only North Korea does everything on its own terms. 16 hours ago, Bailey said: This is probably a bad example but Imagine if the US had to do everything the other countries in the Americas wanted to do? The EU is not about continentals telling the UK what to do .. ? Thanks to the (former) standing of the UK and its (former) soft power to influence and shape decisions taken at EU-level, a lot of people on the continent have had the feeling for decades it has been the other way around. pete0, Bailey and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 I am pro immigration to, but I am also pro brexit, the two are not mutually exclusive in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MikeO Posted November 22, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 hour ago, rubecula said: I am pro immigration to, but I am also pro brexit, the two are not mutually exclusive in my mind. Puts you in a tiny minority Rubes. Brexit won due to ( I want to say xenophobia but it's too strong for people on here) misinformation. We are lucky to have Holystove to give us factual stuff. Bailey, plainly an intelligent guy in many ways, is completely wrong on this (and has been schooled). If a guy like him can be fooled what chance the average man on the street? Bailey, rubecula, Matt and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 1 hour ago, MikeO said: Puts you in a tiny minority Rubes. Brexit won due to ( I want to say xenophobia but it's too strong for people on here) misinformation. We are lucky to have Holystove to give us factual stuff. Bailey, plainly an intelligent guy in many ways, is completely wrong on this (and has been schooled). If a guy like him can be fooled what chance the average man on the street? Yes I know I am in a minority Mike, but I am honest enough with myself to realise this. I am not normally interested in political babble,but this entire issue has me irritated beyond normal. I have said before why I am pro brexit and nobody has yet convinced me I am wrong, However I am not anti foreigner. I am (if anything on this idea) anti individual., but even that seems to be wrong. I have not got either the learning nor the intelligence to state my case any better. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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