Quinn31 Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 Thank you to twelve Tory MPs and the other sensible members of Parliament. MikeO, Matt and pete0 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Quinn31 said: Thank you to twelve Tory MPs and the other sensible members of Parliament. I'll second that (e)motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 Brexit isn’t even going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said: Brexit isn’t even going to happen. Bet you a ton it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: Brexit isn’t even going to happen. We live in hope I've finally got the documents together to push my permit through to stay here in Switzerland, should be another 4-6 months and they can't kick me out regardless. Quite a big relief Quinn31, markjazzbassist and Chach 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 Just now, Matt said: We live in hope I've finally got the documents together to push my permit through to stay here in Switzerland, should be another 4-6 months and they can't kick me out regardless. Quite a big relief I don't, I'd vote leave again tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: I don't, I'd vote leave again tomorrow. I'm not surprised, you're a stubborn bugger Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: I don't, I'd vote leave again tomorrow. You're not alone. Seems like very few have changed their mind. Then why would you say Brexit won't happen? "Was Britain right or wrong to vote to leave EU"? Right 44% Wrong 45% Don't know 11% -- YouGov Dec 10-11 "Who want to abandon Brexit completely: nationally: 15% middle/upper class: 19% 18-24 yr olds: 21% London: 21% Labour: 24% Remainers: 29% Lib Dems: 37% -- YouGov, Dec 10-11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 58 minutes ago, holystove said: You're not alone. Seems like very few have changed their mind. Then why would you say Brexit won't happen? "Was Britain right or wrong to vote to leave EU"? Right 44% Wrong 45% Don't know 11% -- YouGov Dec 10-11 "Who want to abandon Brexit completely: nationally: 15% middle/upper class: 19% 18-24 yr olds: 21% London: 21% Labour: 24% Remainers: 29% Lib Dems: 37% -- YouGov, Dec 10-11 The politicians won't let it happen, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said: The politicians won't let it happen, IMO. Technically it'll happen, it has too now, but our relationship will probably be not too different from what it is currently so in practice it'll just have been a huge waste of time and money. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 28 minutes ago, MikeO said: Technically it'll happen, it has too now, but our relationship will probably be not too different from what it is currently so in practice it'll just have been a huge waste of time and money. I really don’t think it will. I haven’t for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: I really don’t think it will. I haven’t for a long time. but why? it is official government policy to leave the EU and both main parties are committed to leaving. The only way I can see Brexit not hapenning is in case of a new GE (not unlikely given realities of phase 2 of negotiation) and Labour coming out for remain (highly unlikely given how anti-EU (ie capitalism) Corbyn is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 25 minutes ago, holystove said: but why? it is official government policy to leave the EU and both main parties are committed to leaving. The only way I can see Brexit not hapenning is in case of a new GE (not unlikely given realities of phase 2 of negotiation) and Labour coming out for remain (highly unlikely given how anti-EU (ie capitalism) Corbyn is). They’re that committed to it that there are big calls for a second referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: They’re that committed to it that there are big calls for a second referendum. Another referendum would give leave an even bigger majority imo, because lots of people are as stubborn as you are (some even more so) and they want out despite all the negatives (and lack of positives) being presented to them. Puts me in mind of kids holding their breath until they get their way. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, MikeO said: Puts me in mind of kids holding their breath until they get their way. We got our way the first time, Mike, we don’t need to hold our breath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: We got our way the first time, Mike, we don’t need to hold our breath But you don't think you're going to, so breath holding might be the way forward. Hopefully Farage will be the first to employ the technique. Matt and Quinn31 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, MikeO said: But you don't think you're going to, so breath holding might be the way forward. Hopefully Farage will be the first to employ the technique. I hope so, the big cockwomble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 17 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: They’re that committed to it that there are big calls for a second referendum. Do you think Remain would win in a second referendum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 To answer my own question, latest polling shows Remain at 51%, Leave at 41%.. well outside margin of error. Seems few have changed their mind, but over 80% of the people who didn't ( or couldn't? 17 year olds) vote last time would vote Remain. :facepalm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 I think if there was a second referendum remain would win by around 55%-45%, I also think that people who voted leave first time round would not say that they changed their vote because they wouldn't want to admit that they got it wrong first time round, also as much as they wouldn't want to admit that they were misled in to voting leave a lot of them will be able to see that it's disaster and would be savvy enough to correct there mistake if given the opportunity. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Palfy said: I think if there was a second referendum remain would win by around 55%-45%, I also think that people who voted leave first time round would not say that they changed their vote because they wouldn't want to admit that they got it wrong first time round, also as much as they wouldn't want to admit that they were misled in to voting leave a lot of them will be able to see that it's disaster and would be savvy enough to correct there mistake if given the opportunity. I would hope that that you're right but I suspect you wouldn't be, I think leave would still win due to people being stubborn and (in some cases) xenophobic morons. No disrespect to the Brexiteers on here who I'd not put in that group. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, MikeO said: I would hope that that you're right but I suspect you wouldn't be, I think leave would still win due to people being stubborn and (in some cases) xenophobic morons. No disrespect to the Brexiteers on here who I'd not put in that group. I do agree with you on the points you raised but I also believe that there would be a group who would see they need to right a wrong who now realise they were misled or it's not the Brexit they were promised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 10 hours ago, MikeO said: I would hope that that you're right but I suspect you wouldn't be, I think leave would still win due to people being stubborn and (in some cases) xenophobic morons. No disrespect to the Brexiteers on here who I'd not put in that group. I agree with you because your right-wing press is still spinning like crazy. (sorry about the source). https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5156079/brits-post-brexit-overtime-boom-eu-limits/ (S*N: British Workers set for post-Brexit overtime boom as ministers plot to scrap EU limits). In reality, the Working Time Directive already allows for overtime , but more importantly, the correct headline would be "Government set to scrap workers' rights". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 19 hours ago, holystove said: I agree with you because your right-wing press is still spinning like crazy. (sorry about the source). https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5156079/brits-post-brexit-overtime-boom-eu-limits/ (S*N: British Workers set for post-Brexit overtime boom as ministers plot to scrap EU limits). In reality, the Working Time Directive already allows for overtime , but more importantly, the correct headline would be "Government set to scrap workers' rights". the question of workers' rights'was raised in parliament today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 What do worker's rights matter to all the pensioners that pushed Brexit over the line, easy fuck all if wages fall in real terms then so should pensions they thought they had a free vote that financially if they voted out it wouldn't effect them, let's let them know that the state pension rules are going to change and take away any guaranteed income if that would have been said at the outset then we may have had a different result, that also goes for anyone claiming state benefit, if it goes badly wrong everyone should feel the pain not just the workers. MikeO and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Palfy said: What do worker's rights matter to all the pensioners that pushed Brexit over the line, easy fuck all if wages fall in real terms then so should pensions they thought they had a free vote that financially if they voted out it wouldn't effect them, let's let them know that the state pension rules are going to change and take away any guaranteed income if that would have been said at the outset then we may have had a different result, that also goes for anyone claiming state benefit, if it goes badly wrong everyone should feel the pain not just the workers. I am a pensioner (without a pension) but I was working at the time of the vote. I expected to be working for a few years yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 2017-12-14 at 15:38, MikeO said: Technically it'll happen, it has too now, but our relationship will probably be not too different from what it is currently so in practice it'll just have been a huge waste of time and money. No it does not need to happen or its not forced/irreversible. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/10/architect-article-50-claims-brexit-can-reversed/ I still think it will happen and I'm sure that you will get access to the single market. I just don't think that you will get the same deals as EU-countries. Look at Norway, those are the kinds of deals you will make. I still also think that a lot of European companies will move their HQs to Germany or other european countries. Simply because it will be cheaper for them and will make admin easier. Britain will be worse off for leaving unfortunately but most people won't feel a difference at all. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 20, 2017 Report Share Posted December 20, 2017 Simon K 🇪🇺 (@simonk135) Tweeted: Recent comments made by Michel Barnier suggest “There won’t be any cherry picking” and that the UK may be limited to existing models. Which would you like to see the UK pursue? Please RT for a larger sample size. #Brexit https://twitter.com/simonk135/status/943061693462085632?s=17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 11 hours ago, pete0 said: Simon K 🇪🇺 (@simonk135) Tweeted: Recent comments made by Michel Barnier suggest “There won’t be any cherry picking” and that the UK may be limited to existing models. Which would you like to see the UK pursue? Please RT for a larger sample size. #Brexit https://twitter.com/simonk135/status/943061693462085632?s=17 To be honest I think it's quite ridiculous that some in the EU say the UK won't get a "bespoke agreement". Ofcourse it will as every FTA is by definition bespoke. Canada is not South Korea or Japan or the UK. They all negotiate individual deals based on what they offer and what they want. If, for example, it is in the interest of the EU to continue to have maximum access to the City, financial services will be included to a great extend in the future UK-EU FTA (unlike CETA or other FTA deals), etc etc etc.. The only reason, IMO, there might not be a deal is because of the Irish border. According to the Phase 1 agreement the fall back position is full regulatory alignment with the EU if no deal is reached, but surely no Brexiteer would accept this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 We are seeing the Brexiteers in the government except everything that the E.U demands to try and get a deal so they can say we told you so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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