MikeO Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 4 hours ago, Chach said: Seems to be a lot of talk about a second referendum, is that looking more likely? Just Farage trying to extend his fifteen minutes of fame, it won't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: You really think the losers won't piss and moan constantly just like last time? It'll end nothing at all. Probably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 IMO, a second referendum is a pretty great idea. If Leave wins again, Remain can no longer say the vote was illegitimate because of the NHS lie etc. as most of the bold Leave claims have been exposed. People still want it, fair enough. It will also strengthen the UK negotiating hand because the confirmed democratic mandate will have to be taken very seriously; the EU can drop all illusions of the UK remaining and start negotiating in earnest. Lastly, watching the UK go through all of it again would be quite funny to watch from abroad. Matt, Chach and pete0 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, holystove said: Lastly, watching the UK go through all of it again would be quite funny to watch from abroad. I think that should be at the top of your list, not last. holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 13, 2018 Report Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, holystove said: IMO, a second referendum is a pretty great idea. If Leave wins again, Remain can no longer say the vote was illegitimate because of the NHS lie etc. as most of the bold Leave claims have been exposed. People still want it, fair enough. It will also strengthen the UK negotiating hand because the confirmed democratic mandate will have to be taken very seriously; the EU can drop all illusions of the UK remaining and start negotiating in earnest. Lastly, watching the UK go through all of it again would be quite funny to watch from abroad. with 1 conditions - both sides actually try and back up their causes with clear, concise arguments backed up with evidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 On 13/01/2018 at 17:44, Matt said: with 1 conditions - both sides actually try and back up their causes with clear, concise arguments backed up with evidence Good luck with that! Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 15/12/2017 at 08:21, holystove said: Do you think Remain would win in a second referendum? New (well about a week ago) poll. https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ftcnc2d61f/TimesResultss_180110_SecondReferendum_w.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 2018-01-13 at 17:02, holystove said: Lastly, watching the UK go through all of it again would be quite funny to watch from abroad. Agree 100% If it happens I can't wait to watch all of the panel shows like 8 out of 10 cats, Mock the week, have I got news for you etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 25, 2018 Report Share Posted January 25, 2018 On 02/01/2018 at 12:33, Matt said: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/rough-sleeping/rough-sleeping-explore-data http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/homelessness-rough-sleepers-record-england-stats-homeless-people-2017-increase-a8177086.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 16 hours ago, MikeO said: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/homelessness-rough-sleepers-record-england-stats-homeless-people-2017-increase-a8177086.html I am Jack's total lack of surprise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/business/theresa-may-brexit-davos.html Again, complete and utter lack of surprise. Anyone who thought we'd be better off "going alone" needs their heads examined MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 but matt you will now strengthen your relationship with the US, oh wait, our presidents strategy is America First. Not much of a partner then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 The circus continues. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42827278 To quote Stephen Sondheim.... "Don't you love farce? My fault, I fear I thought that you'd want what I want Sorry, my dear But where are the clowns? There ought to be clowns Quick, send in the clowns" "And where are the clowns? Quick, send in the clowns Don't bother They're here" holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 27 minutes ago, MikeO said: The circus continues. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42827278 To quote Stephen Sondheim.... "Don't you love farce? My fault, I fear I thought that you'd want what I want Sorry, my dear But where are the clowns? There ought to be clowns Quick, send in the clowns" "And where are the clowns? Quick, send in the clowns Don't bother They're here" World Partys "Ship of Fools" keeps going around and around my head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 7 hours ago, Matt said: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/business/theresa-may-brexit-davos.html Again, complete and utter lack of surprise. Anyone who thought we'd be better off "going alone" needs their heads examined sliding upwards?? the country has improved credit rating and manufacturing income. More of these slides will be fine Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 26, 2018 Report Share Posted January 26, 2018 3 hours ago, rubecula said: sliding upwards?? the country has improved credit rating and manufacturing income. More of these slides will be fine Matt. Whilst losing hospital staff, potentially losing the banks Hqs to a EU based country, etc etc. The fact that no one seemed to bother attending the British priministers speech at the World Economic Forum does not look good for a supposedly global economic power in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 00:19, rubecula said: sliding upwards?? the country has improved credit rating and manufacturing income. More of these slides will be fine Matt. You didn't even read the article did you, manufacturing has improved because the pound is in the toilet and demand from stronger economies in the eurozone. Where is this improved credit rating? Moody's is the only ratings agency to give the UK a stable outlook and they recently downgraded. S&P and Fitch both have outlook as negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 8 hours ago, Chach said: You didn't even read the article did you, manufacturing has improved because the pound is in the toilet and demand from stronger economies in the eurozone. Where is this improved credit rating? Moody's is the only ratings agency to give the UK a stable outlook and they recently downgraded. S&P and Fitch both have outlook as negative. subject is getting too emotional now I refuse to enter into angry arguments on a subject that is already decided on. Pointless really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 This is the issue. Information is passed around lightly without factual checks. The leave side praises the current economy while not realizing why its happening. As Chach pointed out, manufacturing is up due to demand from EU countries. That demand will go away if Britain and EU cant get an agreement in place. Im sure GB will be ok without the EU but to say that things will be better is naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, rubecula said: subject is getting too emotional now I refuse to enter into angry arguments on a subject that is already decided on. Pointless really. Fortunately it’s not decided on, at the very least with what happens next, basically because no one had a plan and 12 months on, no one has a clue what to do. Presumably that’s why some Brexiteers are even proposing a second referendum, to buy time to try to unfuck the situation they’ve created. The EU is also suggesting the timelines be extended because it’s such a mess. You know, this supposed dictorial regime, which is actually doing more to further progress than the fucknuts in charge. Its far from pointless, continuing to discuss and debate is the only chance of salvaging anything from this clusterfuck born of ignorance, fear and misdirected anger. MikeO and rubecula 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 14/12/2017 at 14:38, MikeO said: Technically it'll happen, it has too now, but our relationship will probably be not too different from what it is currently so in practice it'll just have been a huge waste of time and money. Someone agrees with me. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/27/direction-travel-seems-have-gone-one-single-direction-towards/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Matt said: Fortunately it’s not decided on, at the very least with what happens next, basically because no one had a plan and 12 months on, no one has a clue what to do. Presumably that’s why some Brexiteers are even proposing a second referendum, to buy time to try to unfuck the situation they’ve created. The EU is also suggesting the timelines be extended because it’s such a mess. You know, this supposed dictorial regime, which is actually doing more to further progress than the fucknuts in charge. Its far from pointless, continuing to discuss and debate is the only chance of salvaging anything from this clusterfuck born of ignorance, fear and misdirected anger. Matt, I agree with Rubes, it is pointless. Particularly when tired old insults are continually resurrected as per your last paragraph. I know you are distraught at the result of Brexit but don't let it affect the usual quality of your posts. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 45 minutes ago, johnh said: Matt, I agree with Rubes, it is pointless. Particularly when tired old insults are continually resurrected as per your last paragraph. I know you are distraught at the result of Brexit but don't let it affect the usual quality of your posts. But it's not pointless at all. People still have opinions/discussions on Trump and nobody says, "it's pointless because it's done"; if you take your argument to its extreme nobody would've had any issue with Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Pinochet, Ceaușescu, Genghis Khan or Pontius Pilate because they were all done deals. Ok so in none of those cases (Trump aside) did people have access to the internet to express their disapproval but they still did so in other ways, even when they were in the minority. It's far from pointless to express your opinion if you think a disastrous route has been chosen or imposed on you. Matt and pete0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 It's a typical trait of Brexiteers to jump all over any pluses that they think prove their decision was the right decision, without investigating the evidence or digesting the reasons why, to show such ignorance to the facts is dangerous I genuinely thought that Brexiteers would have realised after they fell for the 350 million a week to the NHS to look at the substance of what's been printed but obviously not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 1 hour ago, johnh said: Matt, I agree with Rubes, it is pointless. Particularly when tired old insults are continually resurrected as per your last paragraph. I know you are distraught at the result of Brexit but don't let it affect the usual quality of your posts. Far from pointless when nothing is resolved and the whole topic is as big of a mess than before. It’s like Trump supporters telling me to “get over it, he won” whilst he continues to spread lies and dismiss challenges. As for tired insults, they’re just accurate if a little crude. My posts on the topic have actually challenged (and often proven wrong) the Leave “arguments”, and whilst people try to ignore cold, hard fact, I’ll continue to try to educate. If ignorance is preferred, fair enough, but it’s not for me holystove 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 Besides, the referendum on here says Remain won, and this is the only poll that matters Quinn31 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 28, 2018 Report Share Posted January 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Matt said: Besides, the referendum on here says Remain won, and this is the only poll that matters And it was compulsory rather than the full scale sham that was only advisory! Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 15 hours ago, rubecula said: subject is getting too emotional now I refuse to enter into angry arguments on a subject that is already decided on. Pointless really. That's the thing though, its not decided on. That article indicated that May is pursuing a deal that will: Retain free movement of people Prevent the UK from negotiating its own free trade agreements. Now I understand why Farage is bleating about having a referendum on the deal. All the restrictions/conditions, none of the power and influence. MENTAL. MikeO and Quinn31 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42861496 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted January 29, 2018 Report Share Posted January 29, 2018 22 hours ago, Matt said: Far from pointless when nothing is resolved and the whole topic is as big of a mess than before. It’s like Trump supporters telling me to “get over it, he won” whilst he continues to spread lies and dismiss challenges.As for tired insults, they’re just accurate if a little crude. My posts on the topic have actually challenged (and often proven wrong) the Leave “arguments”, and whilst people try to ignore cold, hard fact, I’ll continue to try to educate. If ignorance is preferred, fair enough, but it’s not for me Matt, the insults are no more accurate than those that say that Remainer's were weak, naive and gullible to believe the ''project fear' garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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