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Referendum  

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  1. 1. In or out?

    • Stay in
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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

I think you mean "lever" Palfy mate, there's quite a difference.😂

😂 you’re right,  I don’t think there’s much hope for me Mike 61 in 3 months, I going down hill rapidly, it will soon be a full time occupation for you covering my gaffes. 
I hope you’re hourly rate is reasonable 😊

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Someone made a comparison between UK and EU on democratic accountability:  (as far as I can tell it's accurate) In the UK, the system on the left is perceived to be democratic, the one on th

Theresa May has asked Pochettino to lead the Brexit negotiations as he has managed to get Spurs out of Europe in only two months.

Just say it. He’s a cunt. 

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On 31/05/2020 at 14:34, johnh said:

But the French government can inject multi-millions into Renault?   Still, France and Germany are law's unto themselves in the EU and Germany's stance in this respect could signal the end of the euro and the end of the EU as we know it.

You can, under certain circumstances, ask for an exemption of state aid.  The EU commission will assess this and make a binding ruling.  In corona-times, each member state that has asked to save a certain part of their economy has gotten the exemption beause we are in unprecedented times.   Asking for a exemption on state-aid because you chose to leave the Single Market would not have gotten the green light from the Commission 😃.

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In light of the UK - US trade negotations there are a lot of really interesting post-brexit decisions to be made by the UK.   See for example this statement by the US "national pork producers council".

"As the United Kingdom moves to the final stages of the process of withdrawing from the European Union, it has many stark choices in front of it. Among the most important is whether it will maintain the EU’s non-science-based and protectionist SPS barriers to agricultural trade, or whether it will instead jettison the EU’s “precautionary” approach to regulatory decision making and open itself to modern agricultural production methods of the kind practiced by the United States." (http://nppc.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/P-NPPC-UK-FTA-1.15.19-Comments-FINAL.pdf)

To be clear, they want the UK to allow sow stalls (where the mothers can't move) and using additives and antibiotics banned in the EU.   

If the UK government chooses to deregulate sectors such as these, this will ofcourse impact market access to the EU.  Also, does the UK want to export and underwrite animal cruelty? 

So, what to do?  Does 'global Britain' mean the UK is open for everything?

(here I was, worried, with brexit done on the 31st of January, that the interesting bit had ended).

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1 hour ago, holystove said:

In light of the UK - US trade negotations there are a lot of really interesting post-brexit decisions to be made by the UK.   See for example this statement by the US "national pork producers council".

"As the United Kingdom moves to the final stages of the process of withdrawing from the European Union, it has many stark choices in front of it. Among the most important is whether it will maintain the EU’s non-science-based and protectionist SPS barriers to agricultural trade, or whether it will instead jettison the EU’s “precautionary” approach to regulatory decision making and open itself to modern agricultural production methods of the kind practiced by the United States." (http://nppc.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/P-NPPC-UK-FTA-1.15.19-Comments-FINAL.pdf)

To be clear, they want the UK to allow sow stalls (where the mothers can't move) and using additives and antibiotics banned in the EU.   

If the UK government chooses to deregulate sectors such as these, this will ofcourse impact market access to the EU.  Also, does the UK want to export and underwrite animal cruelty? 

So, what to do?  Does 'global Britain' mean the UK is open for everything?

(here I was, worried, with brexit done on the 31st of January, that the interesting bit had ended).

ouch, i've always held europe (UK too) in high regards due to it's high standards for food quality.  lowering yourself to the US standards is akin to eating dog food.

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47 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

ouch, i've always held europe (UK too) in high regards due to it's high standards for food quality.  lowering yourself to the US standards is akin to eating dog food.

We no mate we’ve had KFC McDonald’s and Dominos here for years, you can’t beat healthy British food Black pudding suet puds dumplings fry ups Turkey twislers😀

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

We no mate we’ve had KFC McDonald’s and Dominos here for years, you can’t beat healthy British food Black pudding suet puds dumplings fry ups Turkey twislers😀

i don't mean the cuisine, i mean the raw food.  in most of europe local and organic are standard due to EU food standards.  In the US these are seen are Premium foods you have to pay a high price for at specialty markets ala Whole Foods or Trader Joe's.  Mainstream stores carry some local and/or organic food, but usually not much.  it's all we buy, so it's tough because our grocery bills are so high.  i'd rather pay more for groceries now than pay for the health bills later that will come with eating anti-biotic pumped, steroid animal products or produce washed or fertilized with cancerous roundup and other products.  we've been getting most of our food direct from farmers in a CSA (community supported agriculture) for years now, but still need to hit the grocery for items every week that they don't have.

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23 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

i don't mean the cuisine, i mean the raw food.  in most of europe local and organic are standard due to EU food standards.  In the US these are seen are Premium foods you have to pay a high price for at specialty markets ala Whole Foods or Trader Joe's.  Mainstream stores carry some local and/or organic food, but usually not much.  it's all we buy, so it's tough because our grocery bills are so high.  i'd rather pay more for groceries now than pay for the health bills later that will come with eating anti-biotic pumped, steroid animal products or produce washed or fertilized with cancerous roundup and other products.  we've been getting most of our food direct from farmers in a CSA (community supported agriculture) for years now, but still need to hit the grocery for items every week that they don't have.

I know mate just a bit of banter👍

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18 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i don't mean the cuisine, i mean the raw food.  in most of europe local and organic are standard due to EU food standards.  In the US these are seen are Premium foods you have to pay a high price for at specialty markets ala Whole Foods or Trader Joe's.  Mainstream stores carry some local and/or organic food, but usually not much.  it's all we buy, so it's tough because our grocery bills are so high.  i'd rather pay more for groceries now than pay for the health bills later that will come with eating anti-biotic pumped, steroid animal products or produce washed or fertilized with cancerous roundup and other products.  we've been getting most of our food direct from farmers in a CSA (community supported agriculture) for years now, but still need to hit the grocery for items every week that they don't have.

Lower food standards do mean lower prices, though.  Food is much cheaper in the US compared to here.  Lower food prices are one of the benefits of brexit that can probably come true.  I understand the UK government want to allow the "inferior" food to be sold in the UK and have the consumer decide what they want.  Cheap food (US), EU-certified food, or Premium foods as you describe.  

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2 hours ago, holystove said:

Lower food standards do mean lower prices, though.  Food is much cheaper in the US compared to here.  Lower food prices are one of the benefits of brexit that can probably come true.  I understand the UK government want to allow the "inferior" food to be sold in the UK and have the consumer decide what they want.  Cheap food (US), EU-certified food, or Premium foods as you describe.  

watch as disease rates soar just like they do the in the US.

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4 hours ago, holystove said:

Lower food standards do mean lower prices, though.  Food is much cheaper in the US compared to here.  Lower food prices are one of the benefits of brexit that can probably come true.  I understand the UK government want to allow the "inferior" food to be sold in the UK and have the consumer decide what they want.  Cheap food (US), EU-certified food, or Premium foods as you describe.  

That’s very true, I remember thinking on my first trip to the states that there was very little value to food, with all you can eat buffet breakfasts for a few bucks, and locals piling it on and leaving most of it, or coming back with 2 plates piled up and just picking at it. 
That can only be profitable if you’re costs are very low. 

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4 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

watch as disease rates soar just like they do the in the US.

Yes very true, disproportionally affecting the poor.  

Also watch local farmers go bust because they can't compete with industrialized US farming.  And even if you, as a consumer, choose not to eat the US beef/pork/.., you won't know where your restaurateur gets his food (..you can't take a pretty good guess though).

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35 minutes ago, holystove said:

Yes very true, disproportionally affecting the poor.  

Also watch local farmers go bust because they can't compete with industrialized US farming.  And even if you, as a consumer, choose not to eat the US beef/pork/.., you won't know where your restaurateur gets his food (..you can't take a pretty good guess though).

The source of the meat has to be declared here in Switzerland, so you always know. Means the local farmers are protected but then they also drive prices up to ridiculous levels. I remember buying a 2kg leg of New Zealand lamb a few years ago for about £20, here it would cost close to £160-180.

ive also always enjoyed the food in the US. the in-laws usually go to their local butchers or farmers market, but even the stuff I’ve had from Walmart was good. Plus I love Wendy’s. I do go on a meat feast in the US because I can’t really here, to anywhere near the same extend at least, but all the above might be why I end up losing weight (usually 2-3kg in 14 days) whilst I’m there. 

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1 hour ago, holystove said:

Yes very true, disproportionally affecting the poor.  

Also watch local farmers go bust because they can't compete with industrialized US farming.  And even if you, as a consumer, choose not to eat the US beef/pork/.., you won't know where your restaurateur gets his food (..you can't take a pretty good guess though).

yes good point.  the farm to table movement at restaurants is a big thing here.  it's really changed a lot of the restaurant landscape as diners prefer knowing where their food is coming from and would rather support restaurants that buy from local farmers.

 

1 hour ago, Matt said:

The source of the meat has to be declared here in Switzerland, so you always know. Means the local farmers are protected but then they also drive prices up to ridiculous levels. I remember buying a 2kg leg of New Zealand lamb a few years ago for about £20, here it would cost close to £160-180.

ive also always enjoyed the food in the US. the in-laws usually go to their local butchers or farmers market, but even the stuff I’ve had from Walmart was good. Plus I love Wendy’s. I do go on a meat feast in the US because I can’t really here, to anywhere near the same extend at least, but all the above might be why I end up losing weight (usually 2-3kg in 14 days) whilst I’m there. 

i love fast food too matt, it's an addiction i've yet to best (quit sugar and booze for months before).  i don't eat it often, maybe 1 time a month, but if we're out of food or on a drive, i'm not going to turn it down :)  wendy's is from Ohio, so we have them everywhere.  I am a big fan of Chipotle, they are healthier and don't use antibiotic meat, and source as much as they can locally and organic, but it's still fast food :)

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Enjoy it Mark. Our local burger place closed due to the virus and it was sublime. It still pops up on google when I’m looking for a takeout and both the wife and I sigh with disappointment! Everything came from within a 20km radius, the cheese and bread from within 200 metres! 

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2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

yes good point.  the farm to table movement at restaurants is a big thing here.  it's really changed a lot of the restaurant landscape as diners prefer knowing where their food is coming from and would rather support restaurants that buy from local farmers.

 

i love fast food too matt, it's an addiction i've yet to best (quit sugar and booze for months before).  i don't eat it often, maybe 1 time a month, but if we're out of food or on a drive, i'm not going to turn it down :)  wendy's is from Ohio, so we have them everywhere.  I am a big fan of Chipotle, they are healthier and don't use antibiotic meat, and source as much as they can locally and organic, but it's still fast food :)

Red Lobster, I’m not a fan of Wendy’s or Deny’s. 

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  • 2 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Unprecedented.  Unbelievable.  How can you go back on a treaty signed less than a year ago..  

I don't agree this is on brexit-voters... it is on a populist, irresponsible government whose big campaign slogan was the oven-ready deal.  

When the legality of the bill breaking international law will be challenged in court, the judiciary will be placed in a position where they once again will be labeled "enemies of the people" by right-wingers, further undermining the rule of law in the UK.  It will get worse before it gets better..

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34 minutes ago, holystove said:

Unprecedented.  Unbelievable.  How can you go back on a treaty signed less than a year ago..  

I don't agree this is on brexit-voters... it is on a populist, irresponsible government whose big campaign slogan was the oven-ready deal.  

When the legality of the bill breaking international law will be challenged in court, the judiciary will be placed in a position where they once again will be labeled "enemies of the people" by right-wingers, further undermining the rule of law in the UK.  It will get worse before it gets better..

I’m surprised you’re surprised Holy, the Torys have tricked allies and anyone else for that matter to have their own way. 
 

It is in a way on the Brexit voters; they trusted the Conservative snakes and voted on something massive that wasn’t understood. Even when provided with evidence that blew up the leave argument, it was fingers-in-ears-I’m-not-listening. 
 

Although obviously the majority of the blame goes to anyone who continued to keep them in power. 

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17 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I just don’t think he’s in the best position to be offering his advice when his decisions killed people for his own gain.

Each to their own though, I suppose. 

But I’m not condoning his past actions. They were despicable. Don’t change the fact that what he’s saying today isn’t true and correct, at worst hypocritical 

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22 minutes ago, Matt said:

But I’m not condoning his past actions. They were despicable. Don’t change the fact that what he’s saying today isn’t true and correct, at worst hypocritical 

Blair should not be given a platform to talk, just like Gary Glitters records aren't played on Radio.  He is a mass murderer

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20 hours ago, Matt said:

But I’m not condoning his past actions. They were despicable. Don’t change the fact that what he’s saying today isn’t true and correct, at worst hypocritical 

It's a shame you can't be so balanced when talking about people that voted for Brexit. I mean, apparently we're all just idiots according to you ;).

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7 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

It's a shame you can't be so balanced when talking about people that voted for Brexit. I mean, apparently we're all just idiots according to you ;).

:lol: the choice made was naive, idiotic and calamitous for the country. But I’ve still read your comments on Everton and largely agree, because what you say on a completely unrelated topic makes sense. 

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1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I was fine with no deal in the first place. I was voting to leave the EU, not have ties with it still.

That’s fine you’ve always wanted a no deal not a problem with that, but this government signed a deal under international law with EU less than a year ago that they are now renegading on.

If this is allowed to happen this country will never be trusted in the world markets on deals again, even by the shithouse Trump administration, and for me anyone who agrees with that tact this government is now taking in my eyes is a back stabbing untrustworthy piece of shit, with no values worth having or mentioning, if they didn’t want a deal they shouldn’t have signed a deal, then we could have held our heads up high instead of allowing a few to make us look like a nation  of snake in the grass cunts. 

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1 minute ago, Palfy said:

If this is allowed to happen this country will never be trusted in the world markets on deals again, even by the shithouse Trump administration, and for me anyone who agrees with that tact this government is now taking in my eyes is a back stabbing untrustworthy piece of shit, with no values worth having or mentioning, if they didn’t want a deal they shouldn’t have signed a deal, then we could have held our heads up high instead of allowing a few to make us look like a nation snake in the grass cunts. 

I agree with this entirely.

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1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said:

I agree with this entirely.

Thank you mate, I voted remain but when we lost, I also felt as you we should go for a no deal because I felt any deal we could get would be stacked in the EUs favour, but to then sign a deal and do what they are doing is so damaging to this country and the beliefs and values we hold so dear, I’ve always believed if you have nothing of monetary worth, then and at least keep your values they will hold you in good stead for the future. 

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