Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[pete0]

Out of interest, how do you rate Besic pete0?

Looks like he could be a good player, he's missed two years of football though. He was the only one in the second half making bursting runs forward.

[Shukes]

PeteO are you sure you are watching the same player?

It's a bit wierd that you see him so differently than everyone else.

Lukaku divided opinion.

This isn't anywhere near a 50/50, it's more like 99.999/ you!

[MikeO]

PeteO are you sure you are watching the same player?

It's a bit wierd that you see him so differently than everyone else.

Lukaku divided opinion.

This isn't anywhere near a 50/50, it's more like 99.999/ you!

 

It's a mystery.

 

[pete0]

15 unsuccessful passes. Davies and Schneiderlin had 4 between them.

[c1982]

Looks like he could be a good player, he's missed two years of football though. He was the only one in the second half making bursting runs forward.

I wasn't going to take Thursday into account because he was awful. In my opinion he's a poor version on Gueye - without the footballing brain. I feel Besic is too hot headed and makes poor descisions e.g lunges into tackles, far too many touches, aimless passes. What you dislike about Gueye, Besic is far greater culprit of! Each to their own but your analysis of some players is really baffling.

[StevO]

Gana is a class act and will only get better with Morgan next to him long term.

 

Besic couldn't lace either of their boots.

 

I think Davies will eventually take Ganas place in the side though, such is his potential.

[pete0]

I wasn't going to take Thursday into account because he was awful. In my opinion he's a poor version on Gueye - without the footballing brain. I feel Besic is too hot headed and makes poor descisions e.g lunges into tackles, far too many touches, aimless passes. What you dislike about Gueye, Besic is far greater culprit of! Each to their own but your analysis of some players is really baffling.

Don't see what you can base it on, Besic didn't play a single minute last year, and had injury problems the year before as well. In his first season he was a young foreigner not only adapting to the league but a new position as well. He man marked Messi out of a game so that shows he's got some potential but that's only 90 minutes so who knows yet.

 

I'm confused to why most Besic being worse would justify Gana doing school boy errors?

Edited August 19, 2017 by pete0

[pete0]

Gana is a class act and will only get better with Morgan next to him long term.

 

Besic couldn't lace either of their boots.

 

I think Davies will eventually take Ganas place in the side though, such is his potential.

For me this is the first time we've not had a top player in the middle since the days of Gemmill and Pembridge. Annoyingly we've got one in the bench, Davies.

After seeing Carsley, Arteta, Fellaini, Barry, and McCarthy to have these two in the middle is like when we replaced Martyn with Howard. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.

[c1982]

Don't see what you can base it on, Besic didn't play a single minute last year, and had injury problems the year before as well. In his first season he was a young foreigner not only adapting to the league but a new position as well. He man marked Messi out of a game so that shows he's got some potential but that's only 90 minutes so who knows yet.

 

I'm confused to why most Besic being worse would justify Gana doing school boy errors?

The fact you rate Besic (whose played more games for us than Gueye by the way so plenty of time to judge) and then knock Gueye for the things he does better than Besic at. Besic can't live off the marking Messi performance forever. You clearly spot something and then that is the tunnelled vision on that thing; you've done it with Gana, Jags, Kane and probably many more. It's as if you have your own peteOpta ratings system... I sure as hell don't understand it but that's your opinion so each to their own.

[pete0]

The fact you rate Besic (whose played more games for us than Gueye by the way so plenty of time to judge) and then knock Gueye for the things he does better than Besic at. Besic can't live off the marking Messi performance forever. You clearly spot something and then that is the tunnelled vision on that thing; you've done it with Gana, Jags, Kane and probably many more. It's as if you have your own peteOpta ratings system... I sure as hell don't understand it but that's your opinion so each to their own.

So your opinion is that it's fine for a player to get the basics wrong because a 22 year old from a poor league adapting to a new league and position makes mistakes. Like you say each to their own.

 

No opta necessary. Doesn't take stats to see Gana is more of an athlete than a footballer.

 

Not true. Completely the opposite with Kane, I've not spotted anything note worthy.

[c1982]

So your opinion is that it's fine for a player to get the basics wrong because a 22 year old from a poor league adapting to a new league and position makes mistakes. Like you say each to their own.

 

No opta necessary. Doesn't take stats to see Gana is more of an athlete than a footballer.

 

Not true. Completely the opposite with Kane, I've not spotted anything note worthy.

I'm not comenting on Gueye's 'faults' that you can see. I'm commenting on the fact that Besic is far more culpable of making stupid mistakes yet, because he once man marked Messi out of a game and came from a poor league, it's okay.

[pete0]

I'm not comenting on Gueye's 'faults' that you can see. I'm commenting on the fact that Besic is far more culpable of making stupid mistakes yet, because he once man marked Messi out of a game and came from a poor league, it's okay.

This is the Gana thread though and you're the only one banging on the Besic drum. All I said was he's got potential.

[c1982]

This is the Gana thread though and you're the only one banging on the Besic drum. All I said was he's got potential.

As they put your Gana comments into perspective.

[pete0]

As they put your Gana comments into perspective.

It's completely irrelevant, Besic hasn't had a proper run in the team. It adds as much weight as me saying DCL is a better striker than Sandro. It's impossible to say as we just don't know yet.

[Bill]

Besic can certainly get different views from different people. I myself wouldn't replace either of the two who we have at the moment with Besic, but for so many people to say he is shite is hard to swallow.

I've had a long life and have seen lots of shite players, there was a player called Laverick who we EFC had on the wing in days gone by, was so f-ing lazy and came onto the pitch with a comb in his pocket, spent most of his time combing his hair, had a big Quiff and it was always falling into his eyes. So ive seen a few.

 

Besic is very underated by quite few people god knows why, if he could keep his health and fitness i'm sure he would be in the team. He fits the bill for a Koeman type player and i have said before and will say again, he will get plenty of playing time this season if health issues allow.

[nyblue23]

Besic can certainly get different views from different people. I myself wouldn't replace either of the two who we have at the moment with Besic, but for so many people to say he is shite is hard to swallow.

I've had a long life and have seen lots of shite players, there was a player called Laverick who we EFC had on the wing in days gone by, was so f-ing lazy and came onto the pitch with a comb in his pocket, spent most of his time combing his hair, had a big Quiff and it was always falling into his eyes. So ive seen a few.

 

Besic is very underated by quite few people god knows why, if he could keep his health and fitness i'm sure he would be in the team. He fits the bill for a Koeman type player and i have said before and will say again, he will get plenty of playing time this season if health issues allow.

Thanks for that. He's a good player and his work rate is phenomenal. He looks to join the attack consistently and seems to genuinely love playing football. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but he didn't get a touch during his first 5ish minutes on the pitch Thursday despite making the most intelligent movement off the ball, and, as a result, threw his hands up in desperation.

 

He wants to be involved and join the attack, and for me, he's rarely put a foot wrong.

 

My only real critique is that his passing seems a bit slower than most.

[StevO]

For me this is the first time we've not had a top player in the middle since the days of Gemmill and Pembridge. Annoyingly we've got one in the bench, Davies.

After seeing Carsley, Arteta, Fellaini, Barry, and McCarthy to have these two in the middle is like when we replaced Martyn with Howard. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.

You don't think Schneiderlin is a top player?

 

You think Gana is crap and you think Barkley is crap? Pete, I'm done. Have you considered just watching a different sport?

Edited August 19, 2017 by StevO

[StevO]

Thanks for that. He's a good player and his work rate is phenomenal. He looks to join the attack consistently and seems to genuinely love playing football. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but he didn't get a touch during his first 5ish minutes on the pitch Thursday despite making the most intelligent movement off the ball, and, as a result, threw his hands up in desperation.

 

He wants to be involved and join the attack, and for me, he's rarely put a foot wrong.

 

My only real critique is that his passing seems a bit slower than most.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mo-besic-everton-hajduk-split-13495226

[c1982]

Besic can certainly get different views from different people. I myself wouldn't replace either of the two who we have at the moment with Besic, but for so many people to say he is shite is hard to swallow.

I've had a long life and have seen lots of shite players, there was a player called Laverick who we EFC had on the wing in days gone by, was so f-ing lazy and came onto the pitch with a comb in his pocket, spent most of his time combing his hair, had a big Quiff and it was always falling into his eyes. So ive seen a few.

 

Besic is very underated by quite few people god knows why, if he could keep his health and fitness i'm sure he would be in the team. He fits the bill for a Koeman type player and i have said before and will say again, he will get plenty of playing time this season if health issues allow.

I actually quite like Besic but think he's got a lot to learn - Gana is far superior and reliable in the position they both play in my opinion.

[Bill]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mo-besic-everton-hajduk-split-13495226

Just wondering if Kirkbride thought the same about Roy Keane, Graham Souness, or Billy Bremner.

[pete0]

You don't think Schneiderlin is a top player?

 

You think Gana is crap and you think Barkley is crap? Pete, I'm done. Have you considered just watching a different sport?

I can see why he was 6th(?) choice at united. Very one footed and limited in what he brings to the team. Not gonna lie he looked the dogs ollies when he first come into the team but after watching him properly he's not as good as what we've had. One footed and kills the tempo too often would be my biggest gripes.

 

Barkley when he's playing on instinct is untouchable, best in the world for that moment. Phenomenal as old brown shoes used to say. However those moments are rare. More often than not he's not worth having on the pitch. On top of that I've never seen anyone at the club be so bad off the ball.

[pete0]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/mo-besic-everton-hajduk-split-13495226

How many did Gana get last season that are completely unnecessary? Shite article from the red echo.

[pete0]

I actually quite like Besic but think he's got a lot to learn - Gana is far superior and reliable in the position they both play in my opinion.

I've never watched Gana at Centre half so I'll take your word for it, because surely Besic hasn't played enough in midfield to form an opinion.

[StevO]

Just wondering if Kirkbride thought the same about Roy Keane, Graham Souness, or Billy Bremner.

The game has changed Bill.

[Bill]

It's not changed that much Steve, that's why most teams play with 2 DMs, and they wouldn't be any good at it if they were Fairies.

You have to have a couple of players who can be a bit nasty now and again. The record number of Yellow cards didn't do Gareth Barry any harm.

[Hafnia]

I've never watched Gana at Centre half so I'll take your word for it, because surely Besic hasn't played enough in midfield to form an opinion.

Besic isn't a centre half - the same way Gary Neville wasn't.

[c1982]

I've never watched Gana at Centre half so I'll take your word for it, because surely Besic hasn't played enough in midfield to form an opinion.

Besic has played more games for us than Gana in central midfield.

[pete0]

Besic has played more games for us than Gana in central midfield.

As a kid learning a new role in a new league. I doubt the minutes will be much different. Apples and oranges comparison.

He was injured all last season, and only played three games in full the season before due to injuries. We drew all three, Soton at home, and City and Chelsea away. Not bad for someone lacking match fitness. In his first season he played 6 full games as he was v slowly introduced into English football and was involved in just over half the matched. If you can judge a player off that you'd do well as a scout.

Edit: just checked the premier league minutes and Gana has played significantly more. Besic 20 games over 3 seasons. Gana closer to 30 in one season. You can't compare the two yet on that little info.

Edited August 19, 2017 by pete0

[Hafnia]

Basic has had a handful of very good games for us and a few where he shows a gravesen-esque lack of positional discipline.

 

I like basic but ffs there is no basis to say he's better than gana.

 

Let's put it this way..... how much would we get for gana in today's market? £30m is the start.... Basic not a fraction.

[StevO]

It's not changed that much Steve, that's why most teams play with 2 DMs, and they wouldn't be any good at it if they were Fairies.

You have to have a couple of players who can be a bit nasty now and again. The record number of Yellow cards didn't do Gareth Barry any harm.

The game has changed massively. Barry has a record number of cards from a record number of games. He also wasn't reckless and was a very intelligent player. The players you mentioned were also very intelligent players. You don't need a thug on the pitch anymore though, them heavy tackles now are a foul even if you win the ball.