Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Bill]

2 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Erm...Sigurdsson?!

No newty all you've done is move siggy into the middle but you haven't replaced Davies with anyone.

Mark .... Yeah I agree with Vlasic getting a go but for some reason he keeps getting ignored.   

Still think Davies is better than the other mids who are available.

[Romey 1878]

7 minutes ago, Bill said:

No newty all you've done is move siggy into the middle but you haven't replaced Davies with anyone.

Mark .... Yeah I agree with Vlasic getting a go but for some reason he keeps getting ignored.   

Still think Davies is better than the other mids who are available.

I’d rather have Sigurdsson through the middle and a proper wide man out there before Davies all day long. 

Im quite happy for him to start against shite like Swansea et al where his shortcomings won’t be hurt us as much, and him being a runner counts for more. 

[London Blue]

When we play Davies he drives us forward. Of all the players we have in midfield he is the only one that looks to move us forward. During the first half there were 3 or 4 times he got the ball and got us forward. Still a bit raw but so much talent, and reads the game well.

If we play Siggy in the middle we will lose Davies energy and drive where we need it most.

[pete0]

3 minutes ago, London Blue said:

When we play Davies he drives us forward. Of all the players we have in midfield he is the only one that looks to move us forward. During the first half there were 3 or 4 times he got the ball and got us forward. Still a bit raw but so much talent, and reads the game well.

If we play Siggy in the middle we will lose Davies energy and drive where we need it most.

Agree with the first bit, but think he'd flourish with Rooney or anyone in front of him with intelligence and a willing to take the ball.  Against weaker opposition I'd give Klaassen a chance. 

Lennon Schneiderlin Davies Sigurdssen  

Klassen 

Rooney 

[Newty82]

3 hours ago, Bill said:

No newty all you've done is move siggy into the middle but you haven't replaced Davies with anyone.

Mark .... Yeah I agree with Vlasic getting a go but for some reason he keeps getting ignored.   

Still think Davies is better than the other mids who are available.

Because Siggy moving into the middle is to replace Davies? That's what I thought Romey was getting at.

Should the question not be 'Then who do you replace Siggy with?'

[Bailey]

I would prefer Davies ahead of Siggy centrally against any opposition.

[markjazzbassist]

definitely was missed.

[Romey 1878]

3 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

definitely was missed.

Colour me surprised. 

[MikeO]

On 23/12/2017 at 18:04, Palfy said:

Hope Gana's injury isn'ttt to serious but should he be ruled out for the next 3-4 games, then we will see whether the team is worse for not having him or better without him, there has been a lot of debate on this subject we may get to see the answer, personally I think we will be alright and improve.

Spot on Palfy mate.

[Palfy]

35 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Spot on Palfy mate.

Do you really think that with the players and formation he put out Gana would have changed it and who would you have not played, for me wouldn't have made any difference putting another defensive midfielder on for a defensive midfielder if we had played a like for like formation and played that badly I'd be inclined to agree, but on this occasion no can't be qualified we played a totally different formation to that which Gana has played in

[Newty82]

On 23/12/2017 at 19:04, Palfy said:

I suppose the criteria would be are we better at winning the ball in midfield, are we better at retaining it, are we better at moving it with purpose, are we better at passing it, are we better at helping defend, are we better at joining the front man or men, does our shape look better, does our time in possession improve and do we still get results, and important does the player who fills his position make it hard for him to regain his place, I hope so in a positive way😝

How do you think we got on?

Being genuine aswell.

[MikeO]

24 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Do you really think that with the players and formation he put out Gana would have changed it and who would you have not played, for me wouldn't have made any difference putting another defensive midfielder on for a defensive midfielder if we had played a like for like formation and played that badly I'd be inclined to agree, but on this occasion no can't be qualified we played a totally different formation to that which Gana has played in

Moving the goalposts eh? Always a good tactic,

I think if Gana had been available today we would've been infinitely better, the formation changed because he was injured so I don't see how your theory holds water.

[Romey 1878]

I keep seeing that people think Davies gives us energy in midfield. Nah, Gana is what energy in midfield looks like and we missed it big time today. 

[Palfy]

14 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

How do you think we got on?

Being genuine aswell.

Terrible, even when we've played 3 at the back when Gana was in the team and Koeman was manager we were notoriously shit.

[markjazzbassist]

1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said:

I keep seeing that people think Davies gives us energy in midfield. Nah, Gana is what energy in midfield looks like and we missed it big time today. 

Bingo

[Palfy]

17 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Moving the goalposts eh? Always a good tactic,

I think if Gana had been available today we would've been infinitely better, the formation changed because he was injured so I don't see how your theory holds water.

Mike please refer to Newty's reply that should explain how the theory is acceptable in my thinking Apologies for being so rude.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Palfy

[London Blue]

22 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I keep seeing that people think Davies gives us energy in midfield. Nah, Gana is what energy in midfield looks like and we missed it big time today. 

So the times we played Gana and Schniederlin in midfield and looked as lifeless as a morgue were down to what then?

[MikeO]

19 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Mike please refer to Newty's reply that should explain how the theory is acceptable in my thinking Apologies for being so rude.

I didn't take it as being rude mate, no worries on that score.

[Romey 1878]

3 minutes ago, London Blue said:

So the times we played Gana and Schniederlin in midfield and looked as lifeless as a morgue were down to what then?

Gana still actually showed energy. Always does, always will. Because that’s him in a nutshell - he never stops moving, he never stops harrying. Sometimes that gets him into trouble but it’s who he is. 

[Palfy]

19 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I didn't take it as being rude mate, no worries on that score.

 

20 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I didn't take it as being rude mate, no worries on that score.

Mike I edited my original where I wrote Mike please refer in original I just put Mike refer which I thought was in bad taste, but I stand by the content I obviously wasn’t that rude in my response 😄

[MikeO]

Just now, Palfy said:

Mike I edited my original where I wrote Mike please refer in original I just put Mike refer which I thought was in bad taste, but I stand by the content I obviously wasn’t that rude in my response 😄

There's no need to be rude about it.

[Shukes]

Missed today. His link between defence and attack is the little hope we have. Today we didn’t have that.

[Bailey]

14 hours ago, Shukes said:

Missed today. His link between defence and attack is the little hope we have. Today we didn’t have that.

We haven't had that in a few games this season when he has been playing too. 

[London Blue]

On 12/26/2017 at 19:31, Romey 1878 said:

Gana still actually showed energy. Always does, always will. Because that’s him in a nutshell - he never stops moving, he never stops harrying. Sometimes that gets him into trouble but it’s who he is. 

So he runs around allot, he is a defensive midfielder who is great at harrying opponents, pressing, getting the ball back, and giving it to players who can unlock defenses. The trouble is our midfield and attacking options have been so poor than when Gana wins it back our midfield / attack is so feeble that the ball comes straight back at us.

Rooney's general play has been sporadic, Lennon is not very creative, DCL needs a strike partner and more experience, and Siggy, apart from scoring a couple of worldies is yet to be as creative as he can be. 

We need to play more attack minded players who can cause opponents problems like Vlasic, Lookman, and when fit Bolasie, that will stretch opponents, give players like Rooney and Siggy and Davies more time to play some proper football and some genuine attacking options to look for. Having a good left back would also mean that whoever is playing on the left will not be constrained by having to cover up coco's defensive frailties. 

 

[Romey 1878]

34 minutes ago, London Blue said:

So he runs around allot, he is a defensive midfielder who is great at harrying opponents, pressing, getting the ball back, and giving it to players who can unlock defenses. The trouble is our midfield and attacking options have been so poor than when Gana wins it back our midfield / attack is so feeble that the ball comes straight back at us.

Rooney's general play has been sporadic, Lennon is not very creative, DCL needs a strike partner and more experience, and Siggy, apart from scoring a couple of worldies is yet to be as creative as he can be. 

We need to play more attack minded players who can cause opponents problems like Vlasic, Lookman, and when fit Bolasie, that will stretch opponents, give players like Rooney and Siggy and Davies more time to play some proper football and some genuine attacking options to look for. Having a good left back would also mean that whoever is playing on the left will not be constrained by having to cover up coco's defensive frailties. 

 

What does any of that have to do with the myth that Davies gives us energy? That’s right, nothing. Which is exactly what the lad has been offering this season, so I suppose it’s very apt  

I get that you rate him highly, so it’s hard for you that he’s been so poor, but it is what it is. He’s not been the only poor player but that doesn’t take anything away from his performances. 

I admit I think he’s vastly over rated by our fans, but even I expect more than the invisible man from him tbh. He’s not doing it intentionally, it’s just that he’s not got that much in his locker and struggles to impose himself. 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

What does any of that have to do with the myth that Davies gives us energy? That’s right, nothing. Which is exactly what the lad has been offering this season, so I suppose it’s very apt  

I get that you rate him highly, so it’s hard for you that he’s been so poor, but it is what it is. He’s not been the only poor player but that doesn’t take anything away from his performances. 

I admit I think he’s vastly over rated by our fans, but even I expect more than the invisible man from him tbh. He’s not doing it intentionally, it’s just that he’s not got that much in his locker and struggles to impose himself. 

He does bring energy. He is always available for a pass, he gets forward when he can, he does the same defensively. He has also been one of the only players trying to close the opposition down further up the pitch  (under Koeman). 

There was a moment in the WBA game where the ball was down the right hand side and him Kenny and DCL played a series of 5 or 6 one/two touch passes high up the pitch. Gana, nor anyone else bar maybe McCarthy would have been in that position to make those passes work. They certainly wouldn'  have had the vision and anticipation to pop the ball around like he did in that move.

Now I am not saying Gana doesn' also bring a tonne of energy because he clearly does but they both do it in different ways ano they both havery different skill sets. 

Davies is by no means a complete player and he isnt playing very well at the moment but he at least gives us the option of going forward and getting us higher up the pitch through midfield whereas Gana and Schneiderlin don't.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

So he runs around allot, he is a defensive midfielder who is great at harrying opponents, pressing, getting the ball back, and giving it to players who can unlock defenses. The trouble is our midfield and attacking options have been so poor than when Gana wins it back our midfield / attack is so feeble that the ball comes straight back at us.

Don't know what games you've been watching all his passes are backwards. He's then never available for forward stifling the attacking play. He hides behind players rather giving an option, he's a disgrace. 

Other than around he doesn't offer anything. His harrying is more a liability as he gets on the wrong side of the man and either hacks them from behind or leaves them on the attack with loads of space in from of them to run into.

He's not a DM either, Schneiderlin is. Gana's job is turning over the ball like McCarthy did, and even Cleverley done a that role better than Gana. 

[Romey 1878]

19 minutes ago, Bailey said:

He does bring energy. He is always available for a pass, he gets forward when he can, he does the same defensively. He has also been one of the only players trying to close the opposition down further up the pitch  (under Koeman). 

There was a moment in the WBA game where the ball was down the right hand side and him Kenny and DCL played a series of 5 or 6 one/two touch passes high up the pitch. Gana, nor anyone else bar maybe McCarthy would have been in that position to make those passes work. They certainly wouldn'  have had the vision and anticipation to pop the ball around like he did in that move.

Now I am not saying Gana doesn' also bring a tonne of energy because he clearly does but they both do it in different ways ano they both havery different skill sets. 

Davies is by no means a complete player and he isnt playing very well at the moment but he at least gives us the option of going forward and getting us higher up the pitch through midfield whereas Gana and Schneiderlin don't.

We’re never going to agree - I think he’s a very limited player, and others think he’s fantastic. 

What I will say, though, is that I hope I’m proven wrong and the rest of you right. I don’t want any player of ours to be a failure. 

[c1982]

I know quite a few people who went vs WBA as neutrals - seems a lot of the fans were all too happy to give their season tickets away (we were given 6)... anyway, was talking to a couple today and they thought Davies (number 26 as they referred to him as) stood out... unfortunately, it was because he was so poor - ‘rabbit in headlights’ and ‘scared of the ball’ were a couple of comments which stood out. I like him and do think he brings energy but as an impact player against tiring legs. He’s still very young and has only had 12 months of 1st team football so I remain massively optimistic about a great future in the game which will hopefully be at our club.

[London Blue]

7 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

What does any of that have to do with the myth that Davies gives us energy? That’s right, nothing. Which is exactly what the lad has been offering this season, so I suppose it’s very apt  

 

This is the Gana thread, and I was saying that Gana offers lots of defensive energy, pressing enegy, not attacking energy, as has been evidenced in his repeated raking 40 yard passes to the ball boys. 

7 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I get that you rate him highly, so it’s hard for you that he’s been so poor, but it is what it is. He’s not been the only poor player but that doesn’t take anything away from his performances. 

I do rate him highly, his potential is based on what he did for us last season. His current poor form is not hard for me to take, as I have said in previous posts its to be expected.

8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I admit I think he’s vastly over rated by our fans, but even I expect more than the invisible man from him tbh. He’s not doing it intentionally, it’s just that he’s not got that much in his locker and struggles to impose himself. 

So how do you explain his performances for us last season then?