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Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

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10 minutes ago, Bailey said:

In the Premier League we have played 9 games without starting Gana in the last two seasons.

We beat Burnley (this season) and Brighton (last season).

We drew twice with West Brom and once with Liverpool.

We lost twice to Man City, and once with United and Spurs.

The season before we lost to Chelsea but beat City, Palace, Bournemouth and West Brom whilst drawing with Stoke.

I bet this post doesn't get as many likes 😃

Got a green for me for the research, but "the season before" clouds the issue does it not? It was his first for us and wasn't included in the stat in the first place so doesn't alter the point made by the dude who was talking about the last season and a half.

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2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Got a green for me for the research, but "the season before" clouds the issue does it not? It was his first for us and wasn't included in the stat in the first place so doesn't alter the point made by the dude who was talking about the last season and a half.

He only missed one match until the ACN in January (which I think was a suspension - Chelsea) so I'm not sure it has too much of an influence.

The cynic in me wonders why he didn't include the season before, nor mentions the teams we lost to in the league. He is a man after my own heart, using stats to fit his agenda 😂

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6 hours ago, Matt said:

I know where you’re coming from, but if they’re selling Cavani for £50m, we should be asking for every penny of it and take advantage of their desperation ;)

They are selling Cavani? Buy him!!!

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13 hours ago, MikeO said:

I remember some pundit or other saying "miles on the clock" was the reason for Wayne Rooney's relatively young decline and the fact that he'd started at the top level at sixteen and played something like 750 top flight/international games; Gana didn't play top flight in France until he was 20/21 and has roughly half the number of appearances. Shows absolutely no sign of slowing down to me, I'd be asking for €50m.

You'd have to ask really nicely, wouldn't you. Could we be just a little bit more realistic here. €50m for a player that mostly does what we here call alibi-passing is hardly realistic, Mike. Have there been any other clubs asking/bidding on Gana?

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4 hours ago, Sev said:

You'd have to ask really nicely, wouldn't you. Could we be just a little bit more realistic here. €50m for a player that mostly does what we here call alibi-passing is hardly realistic, Mike. Have there been any other clubs asking/bidding on Gana?

You'd have to ask Moshiri that, sadly he doesn't call me every day to keep me informed like Bill used to.

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i Just pray Brands has something going on behind the scenes to replace him.. and get cover for that position. 

Weve seen what happens when he isn’t on the pitch, and it’s clear we have no back up for him. 

We should be going all out for cover/upgrade, not selling him. Especially in January... wait till the summer.

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I’m not overly concerned about him leaving no surprises there I know, for me it would be a good opportunity to play a more expansive style of football, with the emphasis on good possession with the ball and moving it quicker with penetration plus we need 3 in the middle who have an understanding I have yet to see Gana strike up a good understanding with anyone he has played with in the way we saw with Barry and McCarthy, Sunday was another prime example we had a massive void in the middle of the park with Gana and Gomes nowhere near each other and Bournemouth were rampant in the first 35 minutes with no opposition from the middle.

whether he’s a good player or not for me is not the issue I don’t wish to get into that so no posting or reciting stats, he doesn’t fit for me he doesn’t make us look like a team or part of the team. 

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4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I’m not overly concerned about him leaving no surprises there I know, for me it would be a good opportunity to play a more expansive style of football, with the emphasis on good possession with the ball and moving it quicker with penetration plus we need 3 in the middle who have an understanding I have yet to see Gana strike up a good understanding with anyone he has played with in the way we saw with Barry and McCarthy, Sunday was another prime example we had a massive void in the middle of the park with Gana and Gomes nowhere near each other and Bournemouth were rampant in the first 35 minutes with no opposition from the middle.

whether he’s a good player or not for me is not the issue I don’t wish to get into that so no posting or reciting stats, he doesn’t fit for me he doesn’t make us look like a team or part of the team. 

Big fat red from me. I'm out.

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32 minutes ago, Palfy said:

whether he’s a good player or not for me is not the issue I don’t wish to get into that so no posting or reciting stats, he doesn’t fit for me he doesn’t make us look like a team or part of the team. 

Maybe because the stats illustrate how good he is for us, the facts don't fit your anti agenda.

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4 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Maybe because the stats illustrate how good he is for us, the facts don't fit your anti agenda.

Go on then Mike post his stats for Sunday and his Echo rating if it makes you feel better. 

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1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Go on then Mike post his stats for Sunday and his Echo rating if it makes you feel better. 

No need, anyone with their eyes open will be aware.

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6 minutes ago, MikeO said:

No need, anyone with their eyes open will be aware.

I noticed a huge whole in our midfield on the 56th minute. Lucky Bournemouth were pants as a better team would have punished us. 

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2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I noticed a huge whole in our midfield on the 56th minute. Lucky Bournemouth were pants as a better team would have punished us. 

So he made a mistake just short of an hour? Worst player ever, how dare he?

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8 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not his best, just a seven.

I would say a five contributed very little went awol on to many occasions leaving acres of space in the middle, and his Achilles heel of poor passing was very evident again. Of course I except he's not had one of his better games but what concerns me is if he is this big player why has the team not improved since he joined with him in it it good be fairly said quite the reverse.

We've tried him with different partners without much success our midfield looks so poor and for me he's the common denominator, we could make excuses when he played with Schniederlin and Davies that they weren't good enough, but Gomes no way he's quality and needs a partner to compliment him and it's evident for all to see it's not going to be Gana.

And if the PSG story is true I don't see Brands and Silva putting up a big fight to keep him, I think there be happy to see the money and get him off the books so they can bring in someone who fits.

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6 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I would say a five contributed very little went awol on to many occasions leaving acres of space in the middle, and his Achilles heel of poor passing was very evident again. Of course I except he's not had one of his better games but what concerns me is if he is this big player why has the team not improved since he joined with him in it it good be fairly said quite the reverse.

We've tried him with different partners without much success our midfield looks so poor and for me he's the common denominator, we could make excuses when he played with Schniederlin and Davies that they weren't good enough, but Gomes no way he's quality and needs a partner to compliment him and it's evident for all to see it's not going to be Gana.

And if the PSG story is true I don't see Brands and Silva putting up a big fight to keep him, I think there be happy to see the money and get him off the books so they can bring in someone who fits.

This makes no sense. If Silva would be happy to see him go, then why does he play him week in, week out?

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1 minute ago, sibdane said:

This makes no sense. If Silva would be happy to see him go, then why does he play him week in, week out?

Because he's the best of a bad bunch but that doesn't make him the right foil for Gomes.

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47 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Because he's the best of a bad bunch but that doesn't make him the right foil for Gomes.

I don’t really see that. Of the two I would want Gomes, but Gomes can sit deep and Gana press the play in front of him. The whole team still needs to get better though. 

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3 hours ago, MikeO said:

So he made a mistake just short of an hour? Worst player ever, how dare he?

Just highlighting that once again we were exposed through the middle like no other club in the league is every week. Unbelievable how much he left the defence exposed and no one else highlights it, like the Fulham game people don't seem to be arsed unless we concede from it. 

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i love the guy i really do, he's like lukaku not my favorite but top three on the side.  that being said if PSG will pay 40m for him snap their hands off and have pete and palfy drive him to paris pronto.  he's 29 or 30 already and we could get a young lad (the slovak on celta) to do the same job and use the rest to buy a striker.

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9 hours ago, MikeO said:

Maybe because the stats illustrate how good he is for us, the facts don't fit your anti agenda.

But you also know that there's a lot more to football than statistics.

I think it's a fair offer, if true, from PSG. Personally I'd like to see Gana play for another club than us mainly because I don't think he contributes to much other than making a lot of too-safe-passings, hold down the play when not needed and occasionally (quite often in some games) runs a lot out of position. He's all energy and that's nice, but I just don't think he fits to the team... or the other way round.

I really think we could do better and try to find a player that fits the team and style (if there is any for the moment...) better. But with us probably not buying anything in this window perhaps the club should wait to sell him till summer window opens.

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What about when he set up a clear chance Palfy? I even commented in the match thread pointing out that it’s not an assist because we didn’t put it away.

So again opinions aside, he was productive.... FACT.  

Got to give you credit though. You get knocked down ( time and time again) but you get up again. Your like a journeyman boxer mate.

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59 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Logically speaking there is a gap in our side for a leader, that person may well be the ball winner, organiser, and if it's a case of replacing gana with someone who does that then at his age it's probably smart business. 

Enough of this common sense in a thread of nonsense if you please sir.

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7 hours ago, pete0 said:

Just highlighting that once again we were exposed through the middle like no other club in the league is every week. Unbelievable how much he left the defence exposed and no one else highlights it, like the Fulham game people don't seem to be arsed unless we concede from it. 

Other than Kante. Chelsea nearly conceded twice the last match, due to Kante giving away possession, not only in his own half but his own area. Happens pretty much every week with him. They need to get rid of him..... not even a pub league player him.

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13 hours ago, pete0 said:

I noticed a huge whole in our midfield on the 56th minute. Lucky Bournemouth were pants as a better team would have punished us. 

This moment stood out to me in the game as well. I’ve rewatched the section of play a few times to make my own opinion. 

After Bournemouth had worked the ball to Everton’s front 1/3 and recycled back to the halfway line. Bournemouth had 4 players sitting on our defensive line, and another in Everton’s  half out wide, keeping Lookman occupied from filling the central space. 

Gueye then forced a loose touch on the half way line from his pressure and Siggurdson forced a short pass with his press on the loose touch.

Gomes was then in position to press and attempt a tackle on the receiving player which deflected his pass.

Gueye and Bernard tried to collection possession from the deflected pass but were beaten to it by 1m by a Bournemouth player.

This is where it all went Pete Tong.

 - I’d also point out that from here to the ball reaching a free player in Everton’s 1/3, that played the ball that almost led to a goal, we are talking about just over 5 seconds. -

The Bournemouth player picked a pass backward which Bernard pressed, so Gueye tracked the player wide to the space Bernard left to prevent that pass (Digne was free at this point however 10m deeper). 

Gomes was caught out of position in Everton’s half and the player he had almost forced the turnover on found space central to collect a pass from the Bournemouth defender.

This allowed one of the players that remained forward to step up from the defensive line and pick up the ball with space to turn and run at the Everton defenders and almost play an assist. Almost.

 

My opinion: It was smart movement by the Bournemouth players and good shape to stretch Everton, and great use of space by the young Bournemouth player who made the final pass.

Why was the space there? Silva’s press tactics were in effect and Everton were 1m short of creating a turnover on the halfway line with superior numbers to drive forward.

There was opportunities for Gomes, Gueye and Digne to react and position better but you are talking about scrambling play in less that 5 seconds.

Communication from Keane, Zouma or Digne could have alerted Gueye to drop deep rather that cover Bernard.

Possibly even Zouma or Keane could have stepped forward but this would have been a high risk move to unsettle there shape and positioning at the back.

 

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1 hour ago, DavisJD said:

Communication from Keane, Zouma or Digne could have alerted Gueye to drop deep rather that cover Bernard.

It happens at least once a game with Gana in the middle and under the last two managers too. He's just got no football brain, he's an all energy ball magnet which at this level leaves you majorly exposed. 

3 hours ago, Shukes said:

Other than Kante. Chelsea nearly conceded twice the last match, due to Kante giving away possession, not only in his own half but his own area. Happens pretty much every week with him. They need to get rid of him..... not even a pub league player him.

I can't remember us getting a nice easy break through the middle against them. Only game with Gana were his positioning wasn't exploited was Crystal Palace who kept playing over the midfield or down the wing. 

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I've got no problem with selling any player if it makes sense. 

The fact is that we are a poorer side without Gana in it, it's been shown multiple times. So for this to make sense we have to find a player to replace him and what he brings to the side (preferably costing less than we get for him) and also adds something more. 

If Brands and Silva think they can do that then I'm all for it. 

How's that a fact? He had one spell out and I'm those 4 games we won 3 and drew the other one. 

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

It happens at least once a game with Gana in the middle and under the last two managers too. He's just got no football brain, he's an all energy ball magnet which at this level leaves you majorly exposed. 

I can't remember us getting a nice easy break through the middle against them. Only game with Gana were his positioning wasn't exploited was Crystal Palace who kept playing over the midfield or down the wing. 

How's that a fact? He had one spell out and I'm those 4 games we won 3 and drew the other one. 

Won 3 and drew one!!!! Hmmmm!!!!

i think this is why I’m sure your looking at the wrong person. You really should have gone to spec savers.

Offbthe top of my head I remember the 2-5 thrashing to Spurs. Wasn’t he missing for that one? I thought he was but without checking I’ll have to apologise to you.

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15 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Won 3 and drew one!!!! Hmmmm!!!!

That happened in 16/17 while he was at the AFCON,: last season he missed six (in the league) and we won one, drew two and lost three of them:  also lost in the 3rd round of the FA cup without him (against Liverpool admittedly) and the 4th round of the league cup (Chelsea).

This season he's missed three in the league and we drew at home to Huddersfield, lost at City away and got humiliated by Spurs at home. He was also out when we lost on pens to Southampton in the league cup.

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2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Won 3 and drew one!!!! Hmmmm!!!!

i think this is why I’m sure your looking at the wrong person. You really should have gone to spec savers.

Offbthe top of my head I remember the 2-5 thrashing to Spurs. Wasn’t he missing for that one? I thought he was but without checking I’ll have to apologise to you.

Yea he was missing for that one game, I said spell. To expand on Mike's post, of the solo game he's missed we've only lost to teams we'd have lost with him in the side any way. 

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10 hours ago, Shukes said:

What about when he set up a clear chance Palfy? I even commented in the match thread pointing out that it’s not an assist because we didn’t put it away.

So again opinions aside, he was productive.... FACT.  

Got to give you credit though. You get knocked down ( time and time again) but you get up again. Your like a journeyman boxer mate.

He was involved in I think a 3 man move for the goal with a nice pass into the man I just wish he would do more of that sort of stuff he would be perfect for me, I've never doubted his ability to win the ball it's always been for me what he doesn't do when he's got it.

In the first ten minutes he received the ball in the middle just in their half Lookman was on his toes looking for the slide rule ball Gana sees this and under no pressure needs to play a 20- 25 yard ball along the ground with only one defender in front of him, so hit it 2 yards with pace to side of defender and Lookman is in behind them, but he plays it directly to the feet of the defender who now gets an interception to his name and he didn't have to move an inch probably one of his best passes of the season shame about who to.

Again we need players in that position who can offer more than one skill set, we are weak in the midfield even though we have great individual players in Gana Gylfi and Gomes, there is no understanding between them, as I said in my previous post Gana is the common denominator.

Let's get the money and move on because were going no where with him no matter who play him with, let's not let him bring Gomes down.

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57 minutes ago, pete0 said:

To expand on Mike's post, of the solo game he's missed we've only lost to teams we'd have lost with him in the side any way.

Very possibly but we drew with West Brom (who finished bottom with 31 points) home and away without him, you don't think we should be winning those?

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2 hours ago, Palfy said:

He was involved in I think a 3 man move for the goal with a nice pass into the man I just wish he would do more of that sort of stuff he would be perfect for me, I've never doubted his ability to win the ball it's always been for me what he doesn't do when he's got it.

In the first ten minutes he received the ball in the middle just in their half Lookman was on his toes looking for the slide rule ball Gana sees this and under no pressure needs to play a 20- 25 yard ball along the ground with only one defender in front of him, so hit it 2 yards with pace to side of defender and Lookman is in behind them, but he plays it directly to the feet of the defender who now gets an interception to his name and he didn't have to move an inch probably one of his best passes of the season shame about who to.

I agree on both points, it's Good to see you saw his contribution to the second goal,

IMO he does make more decent passes than we give him credit for, we just don't seem to put enough away

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Very possibly but we drew with West Brom (who finished bottom with 31 points) home and away without him, you don't think we should be winning those?

Do you think Gana would've made a difference to those results? 

Realistically we should be beating the majority of bottom half clubs at home and getting at least a draw away. Since Gana has been here those wins are harder. Last season especially, barely earned/deserved a single win, even when we won it was more the other team imploding. 

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3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Yea he was missing for that one game, I said spell. To expand on Mike's post, of the solo game he's missed we've only lost to teams we'd have lost with him in the side any way. 

We lost two and drew one at home.

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1 hour ago, Wiggytop said:

I agree on both points, it's Good to see you saw his contribution to the second goal,

IMO he does make more decent passes than we give him credit for, we just don't seem to put enough away

Wiggytop I'm not blind as MikeO has accused me of being of course I saw his contribution to that goal, but since he joined our club he's done know where enough of that, I strongly believe since he joined there as been no improvement in the midfield performances before his arrival no matter who you play him with, for me he lacks so much footballing sense it's embarrassing.

And I believe we are starting to see that his lack of footballing brain is starting to effect Gomes and impede on his game, because he's leaving holes and players whilst he goes jogging all over the field following the ball, and Gomes is struggling to cover his arse, that's why so many teams who we should be dominating are killing us through the middle.

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4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Wiggytop I'm not blind as MikeO has accused me of being...

Why focus on me? There's a lot of people questioning your eyesight or blind-spot in this debate, at least in that post you're capable of seeing something positive (however small) while pete still maintains his absurd "worst to wear the shirt" mantra.

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21 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Wiggytop I'm not blind as MikeO has accused me of being of course I saw his contribution to that goal, but since he joined our club he's done know where enough of that, I strongly believe since he joined there as been no improvement in the midfield performances before his arrival no matter who you play him with, for me he lacks so much footballing sense it's embarrassing.

And I believe we are starting to see that his lack of footballing brain is starting to effect Gomes and impede on his game, because he's leaving holes and players whilst he goes jogging all over the field following the ball, and Gomes is struggling to cover his arse, that's why so many teams who we should be dominating are killing us through the middle.

Palfy, as a matter of interest, and a serious unloaded question, in the following scenario, we sell Gana to PSG, who is your choice to bring in to replace him?

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7 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Why focus on me? There's a lot of people questioning your eyesight or blind-spot in this debate, at least in that post you're capable of seeing something positive (however small) while pete still maintains his absurd "worst to wear the shirt" mantra.

Probably because of your comment yesterday, but your right you haven't been the only one to accuse me of being blind to his ability and you won't be the last. But I have to go with my own beliefs and instincts on him.

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3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Probably because of your comment yesterday, but your right you haven't been the only one to accuse me of being blind to his ability and you won't be the last. But I have to go with my own beliefs and instincts on him.

No.... your blind! 

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11 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

Palfy, as a matter of interest, and a serious unloaded question, in the following scenario, we sell Gana to PSG, who is your choice to bring in to replace him?

Neves at Wolves 21 and will be one of the best holding midfielders in the world, I heard City see him as a future player for them could probably get him for 40-50 million and he would be worth every penny and he's Portuguese so Silva might have some influence in getting him.

If you don't know much about him go on line and see what he does and read the comments on him he is pure quality.

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2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Neves at Wolves 21 and will be one of the best holding midfielders in the world, I heard City see him as a future player for them could probably get him for 40-50 million and he would be worth every penny and he's Portuguese so Silva might have some influence in getting him.

If you don't know much about him go on line and see what he does and read the comments on him he is pure quality.

So Gana would be replaceable by spending £50m against the £7m we invested in him. OK.

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2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

So Gana would be replaceable by spending £50m against the £7m we invested in him. OK.

That has to be one of the most bizarre arguments I've seen so far on this thread, you keep a player just because he only costs 7 million, and you don't want a better player because he would cost 40-50 million how do you see us improving if we don't invest on better players.

If supermarkets sold players and you was the manager we'd be going to Aldi when the top clubs would be going to Waitrose

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15 minutes ago, Palfy said:

That has to be one of the most bizarre arguments I've seen so far on this thread, you keep a player just because he only costs 7 million, and you don't want a better player because he would cost 40-50 million how do you see us improving if we don't invest on better players.

If supermarkets sold players and you was the manager we'd be going to Aldi when the top clubs would be going to Waitrose

It was your argument though, I was just commenting on it:huh:.

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9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Ok fair enough you were just commenting but still how do you improve without investing.

You utilise the players you have that are up to the job and invest where needed. In my opinion Gana is up to the job he does.

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The team that finished 5th was roughly:

Howard 

Coleman Jagielka Distin Baines 

Naismith/Deloufeu Barry McCarthy Mirallas 

Barkley 

Lukaku 

Since then the keeper and three of the back four have been upgraded as have the two wingers yet defensively we give away a lot more in midfield, we lack control and gift chances like never before. The only positions left to look are the two in central midfield and there's only been one constant player in our now poorer performing team. Gana. 

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