Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[pete0]

15 minutes ago, London Blue said:

On the radio his tackling sounded very good, but his passing was poor.

Think he's just a bit rusty. Shame he's missed 2 years of football he could have learned a lot from Barry. There was two under hit passes, although I'd blame Keane for one of them. There was one occasion where he was pissing about too much and they broke away. He was caught in possession a few times. But overall he was positive. Few clever turns and flicks as well as keeping his head up passing the ball with purpose and always showing for the ball. 

[Romey 1878]

3 hours ago, London Blue said:

On the radio his tackling sounded very good, but his passing was poor.

He was poor. He was getting frustrated with himself throughout because of it. 

[Shukes]

11 hours ago, pete0 said:

Jagielka I'd say is average championship to lower prem level. Whereas I don't think Gana would get a game for the local pub. He's a runner not a footballer.  

They do have one thing in common though, they are both terrible at reading the play and positioning themselves. You can't get away with only being reactive at this level. 

Terrible at reading the play?

opinions are one thing mate, but this isn't an opinion.... your just wrong, plain and simply wrong. 

Didnt see the match and only heard it on the radio, but Besic was slated the whole feed. Seemed he kept giving the ball away time and time again. Struggled to make even the simplest of passes. This is no Bias either, people who know me will know he has been one of my favourite players for years.

[Newty82]

8 hours ago, pete0 said:

I usually give up trying to educate the masses 

Haha. Nice.

But yeah...definately give it up!!!

[Hafnia]

12 hours ago, Matt said:

It's like Haf with Lukaku. Just incomprehensible for me. 

Not really.  I stated clearly that lukaku gave the ball away at key moments where midfielders would be pushing on. Leaving us exposed on the counter attack.  There is no disputing that he does this.

With gana I do not get it... he's a very basic player - water carrier etc. He is getting slated for doing that job. 

[Matt]

58 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Not really.  I stated clearly that lukaku gave the ball away at key moments where midfielders would be pushing on. Leaving us exposed on the counter attack.  There is no disputing that he does this.

With gana I do not get it... he's a very basic player - water carrier etc. He is getting slated for doing that job. 

It's exactly the same mate, and part of what makes it the same is that you can't see past your opinions. Regardless of the players strengths and facts to back the player up, both players do their jobs. 1 is a water carrier, the other was a goal scorer. Yet both should be better at their jobs despite statistically being in the top 3-5 at the job in the league. It's baffling.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

It's exactly the same mate, and part of what makes it the same is that you can't see past your opinions. Regardless of the players strengths and facts to back the player up, both players do their jobs. 1 is a water carrier, the other was a goal scorer. Yet both should be better at their jobs despite statistically being in the top 3-5 at the job in the league. It's baffling.

Why is it baffling Matt?  It has been picked up even at United that he loses the ball needlessly and at key transitional stages of play.

Even though we have been shite this season the ball retention up front has been better under DCL than it ever was with lukaku.  As good as a finisher as he is he does expose a side to counter attacks. 

Gueye is an unspectacular player... he breaks up play. Stands between the lines and gets a bit of stick cos he isn't a player who is a tremendous passer/finisher.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Why is it baffling Matt?  It has been picked up even at United that he loses the ball needlessly and at key transitional stages of play.

Even though we have been shite this season the ball retention up front has been better under DCL than it ever was with lukaku.  As good as a finisher as he is he does expose a side to counter attacks. 

Gueye is an unspectacular player... he breaks up play. Stands between the lines and gets a bit of stick cos he isn't a player who is a tremendous passer/finisher.

But he's doing his job, i.e. scoring goals, just like Gana does his job, i.e. breaking up play. Lukaku gets a bit of stick because he isn't a tremendous controller, midfielder. See the similarities in the arguments now?

DCL has certainly been better at holding up play, but we're not scoring goals. So his efforts are in vain. Got to give the lad credit, I wasn't sure about him when he was played out wide but up front he's a cracking outlet. 

Anyway, at least we can both agree that Gana is bloody good at his job and important to the team

[Hafnia]

43 minutes ago, Matt said:

But he's doing his job, i.e. scoring goals, just like Gana does his job, i.e. breaking up play. Lukaku gets a bit of stick because he isn't a tremendous controller, midfielder. See the similarities in the arguments now?

DCL has certainly been better at holding up play, but we're not scoring goals. So his efforts are in vain. Got to give the lad credit, I wasn't sure about him when he was played out wide but up front he's a cracking outlet. 

Anyway, at least we can both agree that Gana is bloody good at his job and important to the team

Being unable to "add value" is better than being someone who creates "risk".

Nobody gave the ball away as much as lukaku in the league.  It was so costly to us at times.

I'm just gutted we never tried to get rashford as part of the lukaku deal.... he is gonna be a world class player. 

[Matt]

I give up but thank you for proving my point

[Paddock]

Apparently he has signed a new contract to be announced later today.

[Romey 1878]

Just now, Paddock said:

Apparently he has signed a new contract to be announced later today.

Good.

[Paddock]

Just now, Romey 1878 said:

Good.

Yep- made up.

[markjazzbassist]

Very happy if true

[Bill]

It's Davies we need to give an improved 5 year contract, the big boys will soon come calling.

[pete0]

4 hours ago, Paddock said:

Apparently he has signed a new contract to be announced later today.

Good we've been after a new dinner lady. Get them plates out before they go cold, help keep morale high. 

[Sibdane]

Glad to hear it. He's been one of our better players since last season.

[Romey 1878]

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/11056815/everton-midfielder-idrissa-gueye-is-discussing-a-new-deal

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/11056815/everton-midfielder-idrissa-gueye-is-discussing-a-new-deal

Think that should be a nail in Koeman's coffin. The lad has done nothing to warrant a new contract, and more worryingly our manager thinks he doing a good job. No wonder his school boy flaws aren't being addressed. 

[Aidan]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Think that should be a nail in Koeman's coffin. The lad has done nothing to warrant a new contract, and more worryingly our manager thinks he doing a good job. No wonder his school boy flaws aren't being addressed. 

Was our best player last season, is a huge influence on the way we play and gives us more energy than any other current player. 

We've played stupidly difficult fixtures and I can't say a single player has been consistently "good" over that time period. He deserved a new deal at the end of last season let alone now.

Plus I'd imagine the improved contract is more down to the board than the manager, so it wouldnt be very fair to sack him because of that!

Let's judge Koeman at the very earliest in January. Not sack him because someone got offered a new contract it's obsurd.

[Sibdane]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Think that should be a nail in Koeman's coffin. The lad has done nothing to warrant a new contract, and more worryingly our manager thinks he doing a good job. No wonder his school boy flaws aren't being addressed. 

You have to be joking. You need to reflect on why you're in the minority about Gana.

[pete0]

16 minutes ago, Aidan Lewis said:

Was our best player last season, is a huge influence on the way we and gives us more energy than any other current player. 

Huge negative influence. Look hot shite we've been since he got back from Africa. 

We've played stupidly difficult fixtures and I can't say a single player has been consistently "good" over that time period. He deserved a new deal at the end of last season let alone now.

He's been terrible since before going to the three cup of nations. Do the games last season not count especially them last 8.

Plus I'd imagine the improved contract is more down to the board than the manager, so it wouldnt be very fair to sack him because of that!

Board negotiate the contract. The manager will influence whether he should get one. 

 

16 minutes ago, Aidan Lewis said:

Let's judge Koeman at the very earliest in January. Not sack him because someone got offered a new contract it's obsurd.

I judge him from day one. Overall he has been more disappointing than Martinez. No game plan at all, picks favourites over form, and no eye got a player. Only thing better was he doesn't chat bollocks but lately even that trait has taken a wobble.  

 

[pete0]

3 minutes ago, tonkaroost said:

You have to be joking. You need to reflect on why you're in the minority about Gana.

People mustn't understand the basics of football then because he's not even getting the school boy stuff right. I don't know of any midfielder as poor as him when it comes to positioning. Common sense you stay between the goal and your man. Gana chases the player and ends up on the wrong side like no other player I've ever had to bare at Everton. It is common sense you stay goal side and it is very worrying that Koeman and the training staff haven't addressed this blatant issue when rewatching the match. 

Being on the "goal side" of the ball or another player usually means that you put yourself between that object and your own goal. ... This is a common defensive position as it keeps the ball or player from moving towards thegoal you are defending without you being there to stop it.

https://www.quora.com/In-football-what-is-the-meaning-of-goal-side

The biggest keys on defense are being goal side, steering the offensive player into areas where there’s cover and additional reinforcements, forcing the player to put their head down by putting some pressure on the ball, not diving in and being suckered in by feints or moves, and just generally keeping the player in front of you. There’s never a need to dive in or try to tackle right away unless you’re sure you can win the ball, and if you aren’t going to win the ball, you have to get a piece of the player to prevent them from advancing.

http://www.soccer-training-info.com/how_to_man_mark_in_soccer.asp

These are the basics. It's truly baffling that Gana gets in a Premier League team when he can't even do the basics. Koeman is killing us by playing Gana. 

[Sibdane]

3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

People mustn't understand the basics of football then because he's not even getting the school boy stuff right.

Yes, Pete, you're the only one who understands the basics of football.

[Shukes]

Your right about that Pete.

it just isn't relevant in ganas case.

his biggest strength is interceptions. How can he do that if he is on the wrong side of the player? It makes no sense.

he isn't as perfect as some suggest, if any suggest it. But he isn't anywhere near as bad as you make out. 

You make Hafs Lukaku obsession seem very tame.

[pete0]

The excellence of Gana Gueye 

 

[Shukes]

5 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The excellence of Gana Gueye 

 

How much did Barca offer for him by the way?

[Aidan]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

 

 

We have to agree to disagree Pete.

I think a lot of fans have actually forgot how bad Martinez actually was. At least we're back in Europe.

I think we gave Martinez enough time, not too much not too little. As for Koeman I'd be dissaponted to see him go before the summer dependant on where we finish. We're a 7th place club, we finish below that then we have to have a re think, we finish above that then we've over achieved.

[pete0]

13 minutes ago, Shukes said:

How much did Barca offer for him by the way?

How is that relevant to Gana being an absolute ametuer. 

[pete0]

18 minutes ago, Aidan Lewis said:

We have to agree to disagree Pete.

I think a lot of fans have actually forgot how bad Martinez actually was. At least we're back in Europe.

I think we gave Martinez enough time, not too much not too little. As for Koeman I'd be dissaponted to see him go before the summer dependant on where we finish. We're a 7th place club, we finish below that then we have to have a re think, we finish above that then we've over achieved.

Martinez was awful come the end. He never learnt from his mistakes, kept going back to his philosophy and the players turned on him. Had he adapted like in the second half of the second season and learnt from it he'd have done well. I'd imagine Martinez would have spent the £200m more wisely. 

Martinez had a good eye for a player and made us a substantial profit. I struggle to see us getting much back on Koeman/Walsh's picks, especially Schneiderlin, Keane and Sigurdssen.