Jump to content
IGNORED

Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)


Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Ah hem.... I never let my annoyance of the lads hype, lack of loyalty to us and general poor levels of standard footballing ability get in the way of the fact that he was a very good finisher and athlete.   My opinions of him stand up this very day- as showcased today for the mancs where he looks like he's got very cosy and complacent after 1 year. 

Sorry I just couldn't resist, you did indeed acknowledge (on occasion) when he had a good game while the Gana hatred is incomprehensible to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Sorry I just couldn't resist, you did indeed acknowledge (on occasion) when he had a good game while the Gana hatred is incomprehensible to me.

Don't get me wrong... an element of ego and being right is a very underestimated human emotion.  With players im happy to admit I'm wrong about them.  With romelu I can't.... cos I don't believe I am and I don't want to be cos I hope the prick has an underwhelming career cos I think he's a phoney, egotistical gobshite who will get "Gary lineker" amnesia about playing for us. 

 I still see a very much over indulged over hyped player who should be far better than he is.  A human being with those genetics could do pretty much anything sporting wise. He is like a LeBron James, Dustin Johnson, Rob Gronkowski pure athlete without the humility to work on fundamentals that he should have boxed off years ago and a half hearted approach. Those above mentioned players will be hall of fame players.... lukaku won't. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

You have indeed Bailey and I respect your opinion on him (even if I've not agreed with it); it just confuses me when you can see he had a good game and say it while Pete (and Palfy had he not been at a wedding) can't see beyond their preconceptions, it's like they want him to be bad to prove they're right rather than wanting him to be good for the benefit of the club. Baffles me.

Haf/Lukaku/elephant/room;).

I give credit where it's due, even voted Jagielka motm on occasion. 

For me Gana doesn't do the basics. He plays detrimental to the flow. He hides from the ball making it that much harder going forward, surely I'm not the only one to notice that? People defend him saying he's a sitter but it's rare he plays as the DM he's the cm the one who's meant to turn the ball over yet its rare he even turns forward with the ball and rare he's involved in attacks as he gets on poor positions that no one can pass to him in or if they can he's in a position where his only option is then to play it backwards. Look at the difference when McCarthy come in, night and day. Both of them play the same position but one has a football brain and conviction. 

I find it strange more aren't on Gana's back considering his lack of bottle. Schneiderlin gets abuse all the time for not putting enough effort in yet there's so many goals were you just see Gana half arsedly jogging back. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Holding midfielders will play sideways most of the time. That’s just the tactics deployed by most teams. Play to the full back at the side of you while a winger creates space, or play to the midfielder next to you while other players make a run. A sideways pass is not negative. Not every pass has to be a forward one. The likes of Gana and Schneiderlin aren’t there to do that, the four lads ahead of them and the fullbacks next to them are. 

If anyone is in doubt, watch the City programme on Amazon Prime. Pep tells Kompany, Otamendi and Fernandinho that if that opposition do not move forward and leave a space just pass the ball between themselves. When the opposition step forward look for a full back or a midfield runner. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, StevO said:

Holding midfielders will play sideways most of the time. That’s just the tactics deployed by most teams. Play to the full back at the side of you while a winger creates space, or play to the midfielder next to you while other players make a run. A sideways pass is not negative. Not every pass has to be a forward one. The likes of Gana and Schneiderlin aren’t there to do that, the four lads ahead of them and the fullbacks next to them are. 

If anyone is in doubt, watch the City programme on Amazon Prime. Pep tells Kompany, Otamendi and Fernandinho that if that opposition do not move forward and leave a space just pass the ball between themselves. When the opposition step forward look for a full back or a midfield runner. 

Plus its a lot easier to play forward when your main outlet is the bloke playing alongside you. 

Both Gana and Schneiderlin are handicapped by playing alongside each other especially for relatively negative managers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

For four managers now he's been one of the first names on the team-sheet, does that not make you think?

McCarthy and Besic were out for the  best part of two seasons and the last three managers haven't had much choice he's been the only senior player available. Only other genuine option is Davies but he lacks pace. I'd imagine him to take Gana's spot soon now there's more pace in the team. Last 2 seasons for me Barry Davies during the African nations was when we looked our best through the middle. 

22 minutes ago, StevO said:

Holding midfielders will play sideways most of the time.

Gana tends to play Central with Schneiderlin and before that Barry the sitter. 

39 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

I've honestly never noticed him hiding from the ball?

Seriously once you see it it'll do your head in. Most players will make a run or even drop to pull a player to make space or get themselves free for a pass. Gana just stands there. He's now running further up the pitch under Silva but he's still not adding anything there's no movement, he's just standing further up the pitch dawdling wrong side or too close. Couldn't name you another player who does it. 

 

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

Problem is that most people watch the match with their eyes open, so we actually see that he is the main outlet from defence, and then turns the ball forward

He really doesn't. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, StevO said:

Holding midfielders will play sideways most of the time. That’s just the tactics deployed by most teams. Play to the full back at the side of you while a winger creates space, or play to the midfielder next to you while other players make a run. A sideways pass is not negative. Not every pass has to be a forward one. The likes of Gana and Schneiderlin aren’t there to do that, the four lads ahead of them and the fullbacks next to them are. 

If anyone is in doubt, watch the City programme on Amazon Prime. Pep tells Kompany, Otamendi and Fernandinho that if that opposition do not move forward and leave a space just pass the ball between themselves. When the opposition step forward look for a full back or a midfield runner. 

That’s exactly what I said last week when Schneiderlin was accused of being negative with is sideways passing to Coleman or Baines, that’s how you play out from the back using width, that’s what they work on in training that’s what Silva wants to see. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, pete0 said:

 

Gana tends to play Central with Schneiderlin and before that Barry the sitter

Been playing a bit too much FIFA or football manager Pete?

whether he plays alongside Morgan or Barry he’s still playing in central midfield, you can call them whatever the current trendy title is, their job is still pretty much the same as the man next to him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Bailey said:

I have been fairly critical of him in the past but you cant really knock what he did yesyerday. If he can do that week in week out this season he would have had a very good year.

And there lies the problem with him for me he is far to inconsistent not just from game to game but in games, take last week at Wolves 1st half very poor 2nd very good, didn’t get to see yesterday so can’t really comment but Mike seems to think I will never see the good he does or acknowledge when he plays well, I have in the past and if he’s wearing our shirt 👕 I want him to do well. 

You see more criticism from me than praise because he is a poor player in my eyes 80-90% of the time, by all accounts he was good yesterday and I can see that by the amount of people who have come out to express their opinion, but what I find very strange is that when it comes to Gana if he’s had a real stinker those very same people don’t make a single comment about how poor he was, except Bailey who constantly calls it how it is with a none biased judgement, and most of the time what he has to say is Gana was poor because that is the truth the reality of the situation, far far far too inconsistent to be considered a permanent player in the starting eleven and when Bernard and Gomes are up to speed we will see less and less of him and wonder what was all the fuss about. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't stand the passing sideways caper, it's ok for one or two passes but to continually go across and back several times untill it's forced back to the goalie who then has to punt it long upfield to no one in particular is so negative.

No need to be so negative, it's totally boring and a complete waste of time, just one forward pass would have got us into the same position. All it does is allow the opposition time to get all the players back and set their defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Bill said:

Can't stand the passing sideways caper, it's ok for one or two passes but to continually go across and back several times untill it's forced back to the goalie who then has to punt it long upfield to no one in particular is so negative.

No need to be so negative, it's totally boring and a complete waste of time, just one forward pass would have got us into the same position. All it does is allow the opposition time to get all the players back and set their defense.

I totally agree Bill it shouldn’t go say Schneiderlin to Baines back to Schneiderlin back to Baines back Schneiderlin, it should be quick from Schneiderlin out to Baines/Coleman then Richarlison Walcott and Gana should be moving to create space to receive the ball when they don’t it becomes negative and static with the ball going back to where it come from, it can go forward but someone like Gana doesn’t show for the ball when we are in possession he is very poor, when we don’t have possession he comes more into the game that’s the one big reason I don’t see him as a constant in Silvas team. 

When Bernard and Gomes are more established I think we will see more balls going forward from Schneiderlin in confidence of the players receiving it, yet we will still see a bigger percentage going sideways to Baines/Coleman that’s how Silva wants us to play and i for one can see it working. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, StevO said:

Been playing a bit too much FIFA or football manager Pete?

whether he plays alongside Morgan or Barry he’s still playing in central midfield, you can call them whatever the current trendy title is, their job is still pretty much the same as the man next to him. 

Exactly he's meant to be central midfield Barry Schneiderlin are defensive midfielders who mostly sit and the CM is meant to push forward. You'd not say Barry played the same role as McCarthy? The roles are different, don't need to play fifa to see that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Ok let's sell him..... how much? £20 - £25m?

Sounds about right....

oh what we paid only £7m for him??? Wow. Bargain eh.  No maybe let's keep him because he does a certain role for tge 'squad' and replacing him may be costly and not guaranteed to get the right fit. 

But that’s sound logic... this is the Gana thread, logo isn’t welcome here.... no go with your heresey back to the Siggy thread!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Bill said:

Can't stand the passing sideways caper, it's ok for one or two passes but to continually go across and back several times untill it's forced back to the goalie who then has to punt it long upfield to no one in particular is so negative.

No need to be so negative, it's totally boring and a complete waste of time, just one forward pass would have got us into the same position. All it does is allow the opposition time to get all the players back and set their defense.

Is it negative when Barca and City do it?

the idea isn’t to let them get back, it’s so they push out to close you down in your own half and leave space behind. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, StevO said:

Is it negative when Barca and City do it?

the idea isn’t to let them get back, it’s so they push out to close you down in your own half and leave space behind. 

The key difference is player quality though. We’ve not had close to the needed ability to perform tiki taka (which i still think is boring as all shit)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

The key difference is player quality though. We’ve not had close to the needed ability to perform tiki taka (which i still think is boring as all shit)

Oh I agree it’s boring. But drawing the opposition out isn’t a negative to me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, StevO said:

Is it negative when Barca and City do it?

the idea isn’t to let them get back, it’s so they push out to close you down in your own half and leave space behind. 

I teach players this all the time. Don’t wait til space disappears, keep the ball moving around the back and draw them to you. 

Then make fast decisive passes forward and take advantage of the spaces made. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, StevO said:

Is it negative when Barca and City do it?

the idea isn’t to let them get back, it’s so they push out to close you down in your own half and leave space behind. 

Lets not get carried away now! When Barca and City do it they are luring players out and then taking risks either on the turn or zipping the ball into an advanced midfielder striker. They are also doing it 20-30 yards further up the pitch and dominating possession, whereas we had our defenders on the 18 yard box and under pressure.

Gana and Schneiderlin have definitely been far too guilty in the past of ignoring that ball forward and then going back to the CBs or keeper. It hasnt helped that our CBs arent exactly ballers either but its not an issue to pass sideways as long as that ball goes forward quickly when its on, which shouldnt take too long. 

This is why Davies has always been a favourite of mine when he has come into the team because he will take the ball on the turn and he will play balls forward or into space and thats why his pass percentage is lower than the other two. It was similar with Rooney when he dropped deeper.

I think both Schneiderlin and Gana have it in their locker and they both need help from their team mates in terms of forward movement, but they had a very negative mentality last season and when they were together it just meant we never got up the pitch with any real fluidity. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Following on from this and going back to Gana (and Schneiderlin). I thought they have both showed a lot more appetite to play the ball forward. I have been trying to find stats to compare but the normal sites I use aren't working properly or don't hold the information for long enough, however according to Whoscored, Gana played 34 of 45 passes forward (I don't know what defines forward). What was most noticeable to me is that they weren't easy passes either. The ball into Siggy that led to the first goal was between a couple of players. That so rarely happened last season. Even against Wolves it was 34 of 55 which is more than I would usually expect of him.

The stats seem to be similar for Schneiderlin as well. He strikes me as an indecisive person and given the knocks to his confidence over the last few years from going to Utd and being dropped out of the squad and then coming to us and when his form dipped thinking "maybe Mourinho was right". During pre-season he played like a player that still had those doubts as his decision making was poor, going to ground unnecessarily, weak in the challenge, not just generally not going into situations knowing that he was going to do what he should. All players of all levels go through that. I have been bowled over by young lads because he was quick and nippy and instead of going in and clearing him out, I hesitated, got onto the back foot and lost my balance and I imagine that is the type of situation Schneiderlin has found himself in. Instead of looking like the Rolls Royce doing everything he should without a seconds thought, he spent most of last season over thinking, get caught in two minds and accomplishing neither, and getting plenty of deserved stick for it. The short glimpses so far this full season suggest he is getting back to it. He was iffy in the first half against Wolves, but second half he was great and he looked very good again before going off this weekend. I think it is still a risk to have a player that can become so negative but if Silva can keep him ticking then he could also be in for a much better season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Following on from this and going back to Gana (and Schneiderlin). I thought they have both showed a lot more appetite to play the ball forward. I have been trying to find stats to compare but the normal sites I use aren't working properly or don't hold the information for long enough, however according to Whoscored, Gana played 34 of 45 passes forward (I don't know what defines forward). What was most noticeable to me is that they weren't easy passes either. The ball into Siggy that led to the first goal was between a couple of players. That so rarely happened last season. Even against Wolves it was 34 of 55 which is more than I would usually expect of him.

The stats seem to be similar for Schneiderlin as well. He strikes me as an indecisive person and given the knocks to his confidence over the last few years from going to Utd and being dropped out of the squad and then coming to us and when his form dipped thinking "maybe Mourinho was right". During pre-season he played like a player that still had those doubts as his decision making was poor, going to ground unnecessarily, weak in the challenge, not just generally not going into situations knowing that he was going to do what he should. All players of all levels go through that. I have been bowled over by young lads because he was quick and nippy and instead of going in and clearing him out, I hesitated, got onto the back foot and lost my balance and I imagine that is the type of situation Schneiderlin has found himself in. Instead of looking like the Rolls Royce doing everything he should without a seconds thought, he spent most of last season over thinking, get caught in two minds and accomplishing neither, and getting plenty of deserved stick for it. The short glimpses so far this full season suggest he is getting back to it. He was iffy in the first half against Wolves, but second half he was great and he looked very good again before going off this weekend. I think it is still a risk to have a player that can become so negative but if Silva can keep him ticking then he could also be in for a much better season. 

It's good to see an improvement from Morgan, but for me it's one position we need to focus on getting a proper player in to play there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Schneiderlin is the DM in our team even Silva has said that himself Gana is the one guilty of trying to make it to defensive because he’s more comfortable in that role or because he’s not competent to play an advanced role so hangs back to much, Silva has a decision to make on who gets the role because we know that is definitely how he is going to set the team up, but playing them together works no better for him than it did for any of the other managers in the last couple of years. 

Of course he could go with neither and play Gomes in that position. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, StevO said:

Holding midfielders will play sideways most of the time. That’s just the tactics deployed by most teams. Play to the full back at the side of you while a winger creates space, or play to the midfielder next to you while other players make a run. A sideways pass is not negative. Not every pass has to be a forward one. The likes of Gana and Schneiderlin aren’t there to do that, the four lads ahead of them and the fullbacks next to them are. 

If anyone is in doubt, watch the City programme on Amazon Prime. Pep tells Kompany, Otamendi and Fernandinho that if that opposition do not move forward and leave a space just pass the ball between themselves. When the opposition step forward look for a full back or a midfield runner. 

I agree with you that a sideways pass is not necessarily negative, but is there intent to win, to score, to move forward? Is there urgency and a desperation to do whatever it takes? You generally witness this in another aspect of play: winning back the ball. Both Gana and Schneiderlin are skilled players, but to me they lack that urgency and 200% commitment. They jog and follow all too often. 

I know I praise McCarthy too often, but he demonstrates that spirit. If the opponents win the ball, think Gandalf: you shall not pass! If he’s beaten, he’s desperate to recover (and hence his latest injury). He plays as if his life depends on it, not as if it’s just another weekly pay check. 

Gana and Schneiderlin could achieve so much more if they had that commitment, week in and week out. Maybe Silva can inspire them to change. I certainly hope so. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So even though Bailey.... who you pointed out, sticks to how it is..... has pointed out that About 80% of Ganas passes we’re forward, and not easy ones but some of them were difficult incisive passes.

He still can’t get credit, just another knock down. 

Palfy, out of the Gana kickers, (all two )you strike me as the one with sense. Surely you can understand people’s point about refusing to see anything good in the lad.... no matter what evidence there is to the contrary?

I know you have your own opinion of him, and your reasons are yours, and righthe for you. But there needs to be some kind of perspective here. 

I could pick any single player in our team and spend a match just looking for faults and find them, and just ignore anything good. 

This is where this thread falls down. And..... I am purely guessing here.... a reason that most don’t even bother to comment anymore. Just like Haf and Lukaku (sorry Haf haha) and John the trainspotter!

i would love this thread to turn into a discussion about Gana.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...