Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Newty82]

Bollocks!!!

You cannot put Gana in the same bracket as Schneiderlin when it comes to commitment. Schneiderlin proper ducked out when we needed him last season. Gana has his faults, but no way lacks commitment. The little bastard makes more tackles, interceptions, covers more ground, than most players in the team.

If you critics just stick to the plain raw facts about his play, you might find more people willing to listen. And less just wanting to sssh you down.

 

[Palfy]

Gana doesn’t lack commitment I don’t believe I’ve ever said that, I think he lacks quality in a team that go out to attack and keep possession of the ball, do I think he has a role to play yes as a player you bring on when your up against it and need someone to break the oppositions rhythm and break there play up, but when your dominant and controlling the game he goes missing he gives you very little, because his game is based on chasing the ball and trying to win it back, he’s not good at being a creative midfielder taking the game to the opposition. 

[pete0]

46 minutes ago, Shukes said:

So even though Bailey.... who you pointed out, sticks to how it is..... has pointed out that About 80% of Ganas passes we’re forward, and not easy ones but some of them were difficult incisive passes.

Them stats are clearly wrong, go on the OS and check his pass map. As for the difficulty the pass before the goal is literally straight forward easy ball after having acres of space to move in and the opposition trying to get back in to position. 

[pete0]

53 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Bollocks!!!

You cannot put Gana in the same bracket as Schneiderlin when it comes to commitment. Schneiderlin proper ducked out when we needed him last season. Gana has his faults, but no way lacks commitment. The little bastard makes more tackles, interceptions, covers more ground, than most players in the team.

If you critics just stick to the plain raw facts about his play, you might find more people willing to listen. And less just wanting to sssh you down.

 

Posted this one before. 1:49 in. Completely doesn't give a shit. If that was Schneiderlin they'd have been murder. Just because Gana is quicker to make a half arsed challenge doesn't make it any better. Worst thing is he does this almost every game, wrong side, dives in, then gives up or gives a soft fk. Shocking that he's a pro and hasn't learnt to stay goalside and stay on his feet. 

[Shukes]

13 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Them stats are clearly wrong, go on the OS and check his pass map. As for the difficulty the pass before the goal is literally straight forward easy ball after having acres of space to move in and the opposition trying to get back in to position. 

So Bailey goes looking for stats to support his argument, finds some.... but they do t back up your point. 

Soooo they are obviously wrong. 

Ookkk, this is where I just need to bow out isn’t it haha!

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, Shukes said:

So Bailey goes looking for stats to support his argument, finds some.... but they do t back up your point. 

Soooo they are obviously wrong. 

Ookkk, this is where I just need to bow out isn’t it haha!

Bailey even suggests they aren't accurate. http://www.evertonfc.com/fixtures/2010-to-2019/2018-2019/english-premier-league/everton-vs-southampton/match

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Posted this one before. 1:49 in. Completely doesn't give a shit. If that was Schneiderlin they'd have been murder. Just because Gana is quicker to make a half arsed challenge doesn't make it any better. Worst thing is he does this almost every game, wrong side, dives in, then gives up or gives a soft fk. Shocking that he's a pro and hasn't learnt to stay goalside and stay on his feet. 

That’s always been a problem with most on here they can point out Schneiderlins mistakes but can’t see Ganas, I try to be as fair as possible but I can’t help it if Gana is the weaker of the 2 players when it comes to basics. 

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

That’s always been a problem with most on here they can point out Schneiderlins mistakes but can’t see Ganas, I try to be as fair as possible but I can’t help it if Gana is the weaker of the 2 players when it comes to basics. 

I just think it shows how much unconscious bias is stored in reputation. Gana come in with stats similar to Kante and looked the dogs bollocks covering every blade compared to the rest of the squad who were miles behind fitness wise. Be interesting to see what happens next summer, I suspect he'll be one of the first out the door with Marco already hinting he prefers Schneiderlin.

[Shukes]

4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Bailey even suggests they aren't accurate. http://www.evertonfc.com/fixtures/2010-to-2019/2018-2019/english-premier-league/everton-vs-southampton/match

I think you misread the comment,

What I noticeable to me was that they weren’t easy passes either.

Not sure that was a suggestion that the stats were wrong, but rather that was HIS own views on the match. 

Sorry... wrong of me to use another poster as an example, but Bailey is a critic of Gana as well, but has simply aired his own view of what his own eyes saw.

We could go round in circles all day with this haha. Let’s just agree to... well me being right

[Bill]

Talking about City and Barca playing from the back is completely different to Everton doing it,  we haven't got one player who would get in either of them teams.

We are so poor at it that nine times out of ten we either lose the ball or push it back to the goalie, useless waste of time and just drains any confidence we may have.

[StevO]

57 minutes ago, Palfy said:

That’s always been a problem with most on here they can point out Schneiderlins mistakes but can’t see Ganas, I try to be as fair as possible but I can’t help it if Gana is the weaker of the 2 players when it comes to basics. 

Won’t disagree with that. I really rate Gana, but an engaged Schneiderlin is just another level of player. 

[StevO]

14 minutes ago, Bill said:

Talking about City and Barca playing from the back is completely different to Everton doing it,  we haven't got one player who would get in either of them teams.

We are so poor at it that nine times out of ten we either lose the ball or push it back to the goalie, useless waste of time and just drains any confidence we may have.

Great ambition that. They are better so we shouldn’t try to play like that?

Nine times out of ten we lose the ball? We’ve played two games like this and already you’re moaning? Fucking hell Bill, give it time. This is how Marco wants to play, get used to it.

We have players who are capable of keeping possession, drawing a team forward and then when the space opens up attack down the wings. We did it over and over again on Saturday. They will use the keeper in that too, he will see more of the ball this season than he ever had before. An extra man in possession is still an extra man. 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

That’s always been a problem with most on here they can point out Schneiderlins mistakes but can’t see Ganas, I try to be as fair as possible but I can’t help it if Gana is the weaker of the 2 players when it comes to basics. 

 

58 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I just think it shows how much unconscious bias is stored in reputation. Gana come in with stats similar to Kante and looked the dogs bollocks covering every blade compared to the rest of the squad who were miles behind fitness wise. Be interesting to see what happens next summer, I suspect he'll be one of the first out the door with Marco already hinting he prefers Schneiderlin.

What could be anyone's motivation for favouring Gana over Schneiderlin? Can you two not just admit that you're in a minority for whatever reason (nothing wrong with being in a minority)? Others see things differently from you and you just roll out the (frankly quite smug "we know better than you") type of comments quoted above. I watch the game with zero pre-conceived ideas about who is the "weaker" at any given role and just comment on what I see, no "unconscious bias", no favourite player (during the game anyway) I just want them all to play well. If they all do we're cooking on gas currently, if (I think) someone falls short I'll say so.

Personally I think it's you lads who suffer from unconscious bias.

[Newty82]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Gana doesn’t lack commitment I don’t believe I’ve ever said that, I think he lacks quality in a team that go out to attack and keep possession of the ball, do I think he has a role to play yes as a player you bring on when your up against it and need someone to break the oppositions rhythm and break there play up, but when your dominant and controlling the game he goes missing he gives you very little, because his game is based on chasing the ball and trying to win it back, he’s not good at being a creative midfielder taking the game to the opposition. 

That's because he's not a bloody creative midfielder!

Neither is Kante. Keita (you may have witnessed Keita giving the ball away tonight with a backward sideways pass that lead to Townsend hitting the bar...thats a £50mill version). Etc. But these players have a role to play within their team. Gana has a role to play within our team. He might not have once Silvas new boys are ready, we'll wait and see on that one, but for now he is doing just what me needs to. And that's all we ask if our players.

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Bailey even suggests they aren't accurate. http://www.evertonfc.com/fixtures/2010-to-2019/2018-2019/english-premier-league/everton-vs-southampton/match

I didnt say the stats from whoscored werent accurate, just that it didnt clarify what was classed as "forward". They had passes left, right and backwards section though so I would be surprised if a pass 1 foot forward and 20 yards right was classed as a forward pass, but then again it might be.

 

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Posted this one before. 1:49 in. Completely doesn't give a shit. If that was Schneiderlin they'd have been murder. Just because Gana is quicker to make a half arsed challenge doesn't make it any better. Worst thing is he does this almost every game, wrong side, dives in, then gives up or gives a soft fk. Shocking that he's a pro and hasn't learnt to stay goalside and stay on his feet. 

And Richarlison can't use his wrong foot. Shocking that he's a pro eh.

Over the top as always.

[Finn balor]

Amen brother. We are two games in for fucks sake. With the same virtual eleven. We are going to get better and better. It’s exciting times 

[Finn balor]

Why are people arguing?

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

That’s always been a problem with most on here they can point out Schneiderlins mistakes but can’t see Ganas, I try to be as fair as possible but I can’t help it if Gana is the weaker of the 2 players when it comes to basics. 

Bollocks again.

All that 'most' on here do is defend a player who gives it his all. No one ever says he's faultless. No one ever says he never has a bad game. No one ever says he's a worldie, the best, blah blah blah...they just defend him against over the top inaccurate criticism.

And just about everyone regards Schneiderlin as a talented individual who showed several times last season to lack heart when the team needed his talent.

Which one would you take to war?

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Newty82 said:

Bollocks again.

All that 'most' on here do is defend a player who gives it his all. No one ever says he's faultless. No one ever says he never has a bad game. No one ever says he's a worldie, the best, blah blah blah...they just defend him against over the top inaccurate criticism.

And just about everyone regards Schneiderlin as a talented individual who showed several times last season to lack heart when the team needed his talent.

Which one would you take to war?

Neither, I'd be constantly watching my back.

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

I just think it shows how much unconscious bias is stored in reputation. Gana come in with stats similar to Kante and looked the dogs bollocks covering every blade compared to the rest of the squad who were miles behind fitness wise. Be interesting to see what happens next summer, I suspect he'll be one of the first out the door with Marco already hinting he prefers Schneiderlin.

He may be will be...he'll be 30 next season. Our average recruitment age this season is something like 23 or do. While out is about 27 or 28.

If we bring in the level above him, I'm all for it.

[Newty82]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Neither, I'd be constantly watching my back.

 No. You'd take Gana because you know he'd watch your back and fight for you.

Schneiderlin might be the more talented sniper, but what's the point if he runs away as soon as the heat is on? 

I'm looking forward to what Silva gets from these two. Whatever is best for the team, that's all I'm interested in. If he can get inside Schneiderlins head and use Gana to his best, both will have a role to play for us this season.

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

He may be will be...he'll be 30 next season. Our average recruitment age this season is something like 23 or do. While out is about 27 or 28.

If we bring in the level above him, I'm all for it.

Maybe we have in Bernard and Gomes who knows both could be replaced, if Silva has had players brought in that aren't better than what we've already got then what's the point, there here to play so who do you think there here to replace.

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

 No. You'd take Gana because you know he'd watch your back and fight for you.

Schneiderlin might be the more talented sniper, but what's the point if he runs away as soon as the heat is on? 

I'm looking forward to what Silva gets from these two. Whatever is best for the team, that's all I'm interested in. If he can get inside Schneiderlins head and use Gana to his best, both will have a role to play for us this season.

I wouldn't.

[Bailey]

3 things I will also add:

1. The distribution map does show a lot more passes forward than I would normally expect from him, albeit plenty attempted forward passes didnt reach their target. I didnt realise they had that type of information on that site! 

2. I do actually question Gana's attitude. When do you ever see him sprinting back full tilt? Its very rare. He covers the ground in front of him and around him really well and he hares into people but when he loses the ball he reacts more like a striker than a defensive midfielder. Go back to the Soton game. He gives the ball away not long after we go 2 up and they have men. It takes him an age to realise he has given the ball away and then he does start getting back quickly but he isnt anywhere near all out. He isnt lazy but he just doesnt recognise danger as well as he should. 

3. The dribble and pass from Gana leading to the second is probably a little under rated. If he doesnt dribble that far the ball goes wide and then its easier for them to defend. Its what the other team want him to do, however he dribbles far enough across the pitch so that he can play the ball into Walcott cutting two people out of the game rather than none. It ends up that the ball goes wide, we check back and they get back in but when you talk about patterns of play and the type of risk you want to take with a forward pass and not simply taking an easy wide/sideways pass then it is big progress from last season. 

[Bill]

It's like Milk floats trying to compete with formula 1, Its A joke cos we can only score goals at the other end of the pitch. It worked for Brighton against United, play the ball up to the opponent's penalty area not keep it in our own.

[MikeO]

52 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

Why are people arguing?

Because it's what we do.

[MikeO]

11 minutes ago, Bill said:

It's like Milk floats trying to compete with formula 1, Its A joke cos we can only score goals at the other end of the pitch. It worked for Brighton against United, play the ball up to the opponent's penalty area not keep it in our own.

Are you advocating the "long ball" game Bill? I thought that went the same way Wimbledon did.

[StevO]

20 minutes ago, Bill said:

It's like Milk floats trying to compete with formula 1, Its A joke cos we can only score goals at the other end of the pitch. It worked for Brighton against United, play the ball up to the opponent's penalty area not keep it in our own.

Then you will really not enjoy watching us play under Marco Silva. 

[Bill]

There's times when it's better than fookin about in your own area.

There was a 34 year old centre forward for Brighton who terrorised the Utd defence every time they sent it upfield ........ The outcome was a 3-2 win.