Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[pete0]

22 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Gana only needs to play it safe. He’s not there to create or to even get us moving forward. His job is entirely to get the ball from the opposition and give it, whether that be forward, sideways or backwards. Then it’s up to them to do something with it. Him having a high accuracy percentage is exactly what we want because we don’t want him giving the ball away do we? Playing it safe is a good thing with the position he plays. Although, why do you expect his passing % to be high when you say he gives the ball away a lot? That bit has confused me a bit. 

You’re right, any centre mid should be able to do the basics when it comes to passing and Gana can do the basics. Mike has already pointed out examples from the previous game on your issue of him not being able to weight a pass etc, so I won’t be going into that. 

Gana isn’t a superstar but he is a key player for us and he does what he’s asked to do for us extremely well, whether you want to admit it or not. 

Much like when I reached the end of my tether with the bizarreness of the Lukaku thread, this is going to be my last word on his worth to us. 

Gareth Barry broke up play and then passed it forward and very well. That's what we should aim for. CM control the tempo and Gana kills ours. 

I've never said he gives the ball away a lot. I said he gives a whopper away every game which is criminal at this level. Fair enough mistakes happen but he's not learning. 

I'd love to see a player cam on him because he definitely doesn't kick a ball properly. The amount of times he just hits it at a player rather than in front is painful to watch, as is his positioning. 

He runs to the ball, but not very well as this often leads to him getting wrong side of his man creating a huge gap and costing us a lot of goals. 

[Hafnia]

Maybe you should tell Marco Silva that he doesn't know what he's doing. 

[pete0]

4 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Maybe you should tell Marco Silva that he doesn't know what he's doing. 

Maybe you should go tell Jose... 

[Hafnia]

10 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Maybe you should go tell Jose... 

I'd have to get behind this lot ....

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/why-is-lukaku-‘undroppable’.442415/

 

[barryj]

4 minutes ago, hafnia said:

I'd have to get behind this lot ....

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/why-is-lukaku-‘undroppable’.442415/

 

Let it go Haf he’ll make you ill! 

[pete0]

26 minutes ago, hafnia said:

I'd have to get behind this lot ....

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/why-is-lukaku-‘undroppable’.442415/

 

Did you start that thread? 

[Hafnia]

39 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Did you start that thread? 

I thought it might have been you.... someone on there said he's the worst player they've seen in a Man United shirt....  big shout.... bebe is up there. 

[pete0]

6 minutes ago, hafnia said:

I thought it might have been you.... someone on there said he's the worst player they've seen in a Man United shirt....  big shout.... bebe is up there. 

Since Ferguson retired the top scorer for united got 16 (Lukaku), 17, 11, 12, 17. 

 

[Matt]

Oh. My. Gods. Shut the fuck up! It’s like watching toddlers bicker!

[Paddock]

[Hafnia]

10 hours ago, pete0 said:

Since Ferguson retired the top scorer for united got 16 (Lukaku), 17, 11, 12, 17. 

 

I'm sure such a red hot goalscorer will get picked up by one of the top 4 eh Pete ... lol

[pete0]

14 minutes ago, hafnia said:

I'm sure such a red hot goalscorer will get picked up by one of the top 4 eh Pete ... lol

Lol, are you a 14 year old girl? 

Lukaku fired United into the top 4 so no idea what you're on about. 

[Paddock]

This threads Gana drive everone mad.if we fon’t Idrissa the situation

[Palfy]

Why as the topics name been changed to Weirdness abounds 

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Lol, are you a 14 year old girl? 

Lukaku fired United into the top 4 so no idea what you're on about. 

Lmfao.... psml

Treating your posts with the stupidity they deserve mate.  Completely done in having anything that resembles debate with you. Complete waste of time. 

You can't say you haven't brought it on with your ridiculous ways

[markjazzbassist]

30 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Why as the topics name been changed to Weirdness abounds 

because you and pete have destroyed this thread with your conspiracy theories believing he is a bad player. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Lmfao.... psml

Treating your posts with the stupidity they deserve mate.  Completely done in having anything that resembles debate with you. Complete waste of time. 

You can't say you haven't brought it on with your ridiculous ways

You've never debated on your life. You don't ever address arguments you just shout louder. 

[Hafnia]

Blimey... Just looking at some stats....  gana gueye is clear and away the highest number of tackles made.... 45. Next highest is 35.

Hes 2nd in interceptions on 23.... capoue leads on 29..... 

 Not bad eh....

 

 

[Matt]

You still don't see the irony?

[Shukes]

So... is he any good or what?

Serious note though.  Palf, PeteO. Would you risk dropping him as we are in a decent run at the moment, or are you prepared to give him a chance of continuing and seeing where his form goes?

We know he’s not a top four option, but is he good enough for our position and aims at the moment until we find a top class replacement?

[Matt]

6 minutes ago, Shukes said:

So... is he any good or what?

Serious note though.  Palf, PeteO. Would you risk dropping him as we are in a decent run at the moment, or are you prepared to give him a chance of continuing and seeing where his form goes?

We know he’s not a top four option, but is he good enough for our position and aims at the moment until we find a top class replacement?

Anyone who changes a winning formula needs their headchecking in my opinion, managers included

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

You still don't see the irony?

What irony Matt?  The fact that lukaku is on the pitch to score goals and that's what he did?

If you like to absorb news by just reading headlines then You can end up with a very skewed view of things. A bit like your opinion that he's doing ok cos he's Uniteds top scorer (on 4)

If gana made 30 tackles a game (which is what he is there for) but gave the ball away in critical areas and made us exposed to attacks and goals like Pete makes up that he does.... my view of gana would be vastly different to the one that it is.   But he doesn't.... his pass completion of at a level which is way above the average. He is not a flat track bully who achieves his stats against lesser teams. The best side faced this year was arsenal and he was outstanding.

THERE IS NO DETRIMENTAL COST OR RISK TO THE TEAM IN HAVING GANA IN THE SIDE. 

Lukaku on the other hand has a cost.

1. He loses the ball - a lot.   He can't pass it. Can't control it. He often trips over it when trying a dribble move. 

2. He can't link play. The attacking midfielders have zero confidence in him looking after the ball which means they don't commit in numbers. This is where United were lacking last night. Against a good side they need to be able to get forward and make possession count but lukaku and his low pass completion/ball retention meant they were at risk of the rapid counter attack from Ronaldo and co. 

3. He can't do it against the top sides. Flat track bully and the stats prove it.  

"If" his technical/ footballing  and application proficiency was at a level of let's say Troy Deaney or Cenk , I would say yeah... great. But it's not. He's a liability. 

 

 

So no.... there is no irony.  I would argue that there may be some games where we could rest Gana due to the opponents not having enough threat about them to sacrifice a midfielder to do a water carrying role ...  where additional creativity may help us break through a parked bus. 

The only way I would use lukaku is as an impact sub and I said this 5 years ago.  Against tired legs his athleticism and limited time on the pitch could mean he is a great option for the last 20.  He's not a 90 minute player, he's not a striker you can build play around, he's not reliable.  He's certainly not worth the money he cost on the basis of which. 

 

 

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

So... is he any good or what?

Serious note though.  Palf, PeteO. Would you risk dropping him as we are in a decent run at the moment, or are you prepared to give him a chance of continuing and seeing where his form goes?

We know he’s not a top four option, but is he good enough for our position and aims at the moment until we find a top class replacement?

I'd play Davies ahead of him all day, and McCarthy once fit. Besic when back from loan deserves a chance too. If it was up to me I'd have kept Barry last season, him and Davies were a much better partnership (although brief). 

The amount of tackles just highlights he's out of position and having to make them tackles. Stay in position, close off the passes and force them to make a mistake. Notice none of the top 6 have a player up there for tackling. 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, hafnia said:

What irony Matt?  The fact that lukaku is on the pitch to score goals and that's what he did?

If you like to absorb news by just reading headlines then You can end up with a very skewed view of things. A bit like your opinion that he's doing ok cos he's Uniteds top scorer (on 4)

If gana made 30 tackles a game (which is what he is there for) but gave the ball away in critical areas and made us exposed to attacks and goals like Pete makes up that he does.... my view of gana would be vastly different to the one that it is.   But he doesn't.... his pass completion of at a level which is way above the average. He is not a flat track bully who achieves his stats against lesser teams. The best side faced this year was arsenal and he was outstanding.

THERE IS NO DETRIMENTAL COST OR RISK TO THE TEAM IN HAVING GANA IN THE SIDE. 

Lukaku on the other hand has a cost.

1. He loses the ball - a lot.   He can't pass it. Can't control it. He often trips over it when trying a dribble move. 

2. He can't link play. The attacking midfielders have zero confidence in him looking after the ball which means they don't commit in numbers. This is where United were lacking last night. Against a good side they need to be able to get forward and make possession count but lukaku and his low pass completion/ball retention meant they were at risk of the rapid counter attack from Ronaldo and co. 

3. He can't do it against the top sides. Flat track bully and the stats prove it.  

"If" his technical/ footballing  and application proficiency was at a level of let's say Troy Deaney or Cenk , I would say yeah... great. But it's not. He's a liability. 

 

 

So no.... there is no irony.  I would argue that there may be some games where we could rest Gana due to the opponents not having enough threat about them to sacrifice a midfielder to do a water carrying role ...  where additional creativity may help us break through a parked bus. 

The only way I would use lukaku is as an impact sub and I said this 5 years ago.  Against tired legs his athleticism and limited time on the pitch could mean he is a great option for the last 20.  He's not a 90 minute player, he's not a striker you can build play around, he's not reliable.  He's certainly not worth the money he cost on the basis of which. 

 

 

So... no. 

[Hafnia]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

So... no. 

Feel free to explain this mystical irony that I'm not getting? And I will happily explain it. 

I've given you the courtesy of an extensive response which covers all facets of any "peteo gana criticism is similar to hafs on lukaku"... that I can think of....

So rather than acting like some sulky housewife who's husband has forgotten their anniversary- fire away...

You weren't under the illusion that lukaku leaving would end the haf vs 90% of toffeetalk debate were you?  Forgive me if I'm making column inches out of his demise...... you weren't exactly quiet when he got off to his honeymoon period at united were you. This is the long game mate and whether you like it or not- you signed up for it. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

42 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I'd play Davies ahead of him all day, and McCarthy once fit. Besic when back from loan deserves a chance too. If it was up to me I'd have kept Barry last season, him and Davies were a much better partnership (although brief). 

The amount of tackles just highlights he's out of position and having to make them tackles. Stay in position, close off the passes and force them to make a mistake. Notice none of the top 6 have a player up there for tackling. 

Don’t know whether or not you’ve noticed Pete but our manager wants us to play a high pressing game, so how are we supposed to do that if nobobody presses?

[Shukes]

Luckily for Gana, the opponents are ALWAYS out of position as well..... or he wouldn’t be anywhere near to tackle them would he

[Matt]

57 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Feel free to explain this mystical irony that I'm not getting? And I will happily explain it. 

I've given you the courtesy of an extensive response which covers all facets of any "peteo gana criticism is similar to hafs on lukaku"... that I can think of....

So rather than acting like some sulky housewife who's husband has forgotten their anniversary- fire away...

You weren't under the illusion that lukaku leaving would end the haf vs 90% of toffeetalk debate were you?  Forgive me if I'm making column inches out of his demise...... you weren't exactly quiet when he got off to his honeymoon period at united were you. This is the long game mate and whether you like it or not- you signed up for it. 

If only you’d understand my explanation. But I’m off to bed. 

[nogs]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

I'd play Davies ahead of him all day, and McCarthy once fit. Besic when back from loan deserves a chance too. If it was up to me I'd have kept Barry last season, him and Davies were a much better partnership (although brief). 

The amount of tackles just on and having to make them tackles. Stay in position, close off the passes and force them to make a mistake. Notice none of the top 6 have a player up there for tackling. 

Pete I have to say that is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever read. You are seriously trying to argue that making lots of tackles is a sign of a defect in someone's game... Please, just know when to give up!! Guess who won most tackles in 2016 when Leicester won the title? Yes, N'Golo Kante, so shit and clueless positionally he's got two Premier League winners medals and a World Cup one to go with it!! Oh and guess who was second in the tackling list that year...

And if the top 6 haven't got anyone in the top tackles list, don't you think that might be because as a team they are better at keeping the ball?? 

[Hafnia]

49 minutes ago, Matt said:

If only you’d understand my explanation. But I’m off to bed. 

Pretty much what I expected.  The irony of obsession/stubornness can't exactly be levelled by someone who has took a similar level of tenacity in lukakus defence.. the fact that much of what I've said has pretty much come true further makes it a bit of a weak accusation and makes it appear more a case of sour grapes perhaps.