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4 hours ago, Bailey said:

Why are you over exaggerating? I gave one example in the game to counter your erroneous (IMO) example.

The weekend was clearly a big mistake but that aside I don't see many shots conceded that he should be saving. If anything, I see him making more saves I wouldn't expect him to make. 

Are you talking about the kick that led up to Richarlisons goal or another one?

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9 hours ago, Palfy said:

OK fair enough Shukes I look forward to your critique of the 15 or so other players who are equally guilty of being poor this season in their particular threads🤷‍♂️

You just have to look mate. I criticise any player who I think isn’t performing. 
But you will notice a trend, I respond to threads, rather than make points... unless I feel someone particularly deserved it. 
 

I don’t feel I need to justify my fair criticism of a player by doing the same for every other player. That’s just plain Palfy... or weird as most would call it. 😉

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4 hours ago, Shukes said:

You just have to look mate. I criticise any player who I think isn’t performing. 
But you will notice a trend, I respond to threads, rather than make points... unless I feel someone particularly deserved it. 
 

I don’t feel I need to justify my fair criticism of a player by doing the same for every other player. That’s just plain Palfy... or weird as most would call it. 😉

Haven’t seen anything as yet I’ll keep looking😀👍

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It is funny isn't it..... some players it's ok to give pelters to.... Tom Davies, Walcott,  Schneiderlein, Keane, etc...... for a variety of reasons.  Mostly justified but some a little OTT.

But as soon as a "media focused" players like lukaku or pickford get a bit targeted it's a case of circle the wagons ..  as if we need to protect them because every now and then they do things to justify the hype and we dont want them to be pissed off.

The reality is that when they get praised .. they get more praise than anyone, so they need to take the rough with the smooth.

DCL has has all sorts of shit thrown at him. His goalscoring record getting bought up.... how we need a new striker. The lad just kept his gob shut and got his head down and worked 

Personally I believe the issue is this:-  Everton have been starved of "prestige" for a long time.   Any slight appointment that gives the club some kudos is welcomed.... having a striker who scores more than 15 goals or a keeper who gets picked for England automatically seems to create a "let's protect our asset".

The same will happen with Carlo ..... he may make mistakes that Silva, Allardyce etc would get slated for..... but he's "royalty".... we are lucky to have him so let's give him a free pass.  

That's my view anyhow. 

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57 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Haven’t seen anything as yet I’ll keep looking😀👍

You’ve not been in the following threads then haha:

Sidibe, Gylfi, Walcott, Richarlison, Keane, and I’m sure there’s more I criticise. 
Don’t get me wrong, I also praise when I think they do well. Bur I don't think any player should be exempt from criticism. I pay a massive amount of money out of what I have available to go and watch them. 

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48 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Tom Davies, Walcott,  Schneiderlein

Wouldn't say it's justified at all, just you and the rest of the booh boys hold each others pockets when it comes to these players. Should base it on their individual performances rather than their unjust reputation, although Schneiderlin can be an absolute shithouse he's not been this season he's actually done quite well since Silva left. 

The Walcott one especially irks me and just shows how idiotic some fans are, he's 29 and within a couple of weeks of a new manager people were giving him praise (albeit hesitantly) . There wasn't an upturn in performance. You don't magically start making better runs after only two weeks of a new manager. He'd been making those same runs since he's been here just he wasn't getting found. But rather than blame favourites, manager included, for not finding him that made Walcott the target. 

The Tom Davies myth he gives the ball away gets him the abuse yet he's one of the strongest with it shielding and both footed/quick-brained enough to get the ball to safety or at least try. Compare him to the more senior players who go into hiding. The kid mates a sideways pass and the fans start groaning, he makes a forward pass and it doesn't make it the fans groan. Complete and utter shithouses the lot of them. Happily frogmarch them out of Goodison. Put money on it that they're the same pack the have Ossie abuse. 

Schneiderlin still gets abuse from the whole Ferguson argument.. Yet Ferguson's first game in charge he picked him and got the best out of him. All three have been far from our worse players this year. That unfortunate trophy probably goes to Digne this year but the booh boys don't like hearing that. 

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Just now, pete0 said:

Wouldn't say it's okay at all, just you and the rest of the booh boys hold each others pockets when it comes to these players. Should base it on their individual performances rather than their unjust reputation, although Schneiderlin can be an absolute shithouse he's not been this season he's actually done quite well since Silva left. 

The Walcott one especially irks me and just shows how idiotic some fans are, he's 29 and within a couple of weeks of a new manager people were giving him praise (albeit hesitantly) . There wasn't an upturn in performance. You don't magically start making better runs after only two weeks of a new manager. He'd been making those same runs since he's been here just he wasn't getting found. But rather than blame favourites, manager included, for not finding him that made Walcott the target. 

The Tom Davies myth he gives the ball away gets him the abuse yet he's one of the strongest with it shielding and both footed/quick-brained enough to get the ball to safety or at least try. Compare him to the more senior players who go into hiding. 

Schneiderlin still gets abuse from the whole Ferguson argument.. Yet Ferguson's first game in charge he picked him and got the best out of him. All three have been far from our worse players this year. That unfortunate trophy probably goes to Digne this year but the booh boys don't like hearing that. 

I know Pete.... us boo boys are terrible.  Highlighting things that we see in players that aren't great..... like defensive players without winning mentalities or centre midfielders running their legs off and tackling like machines - not realising that tackling means you've made a mistake.

We must try and learn from.thd likes of you.... try not to hold agendas and remain impartial. 

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Just now, Hafnia said:

I know Pete.... us boo boys are terrible.  Highlighting things that we see in players that aren't great..... like defensive players without winning mentalities or centre midfielders running their legs off and tackling like machines - not realising that tackling means you've made a mistake.

We must try and learn from.thd likes of you.... try not to hold agendas and remain impartial. 

You're not seeing them though are you. You're in the click and picking on the clicks list of players. Very much akin to media influence, the booh boys reinforce each other. Just look at your reaction to DCL missing from 6 yards compared to Lukaku. Lukaku gets called a unfocused lazy disgrace yet DCL gets oh those that look easy are actually dead hard. 

Pretty sure we're not conceding as many chances through the middle since he's gone. Do you think Silva would still be in a job if Gana was here? I'm almost certain we'd have less points if he was still here as the only difference would be even more chances conceded. 

Didn't you moan about people bringing Lukaku up about you? Yet every other post you reply to mine you have to bring up someone. Shall I get another psych from Google? 

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PeteO, not sure who the boo boys your referring to are mate. But just wanted to put that I put what I see with my own eyes. I may misjudge sometimes, or miss things. But they are my honest opinions and it based on anyone else opinions. As you yourself do.

People may not agree with you, but you stand your ground and explain with detail (so much detail 😉), and I applaud you for that. 
 

your still wrong though 😉

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17 hours ago, StevO said:

Mark thinks that we all think our English players are great (I don’t see it with anything other than Sky Sports myself, and certainly not in Evertonians), he just thinks the opposite. 

Honestly, I'd say that Brits in general are quite the opposite: We can be very harsh on ourselves. Only when an outsider says we're crap do we get all upset and claim we're the greatest. You see it here in this discussion. Giving our own opinion, we can be quite critical of Pickford. When the media is critical of him, they're biased and we defend him. :)

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9 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Honestly, I'd say that Brits in general are quite the opposite: We can be very harsh on ourselves. Only when an outsider says we're crap do we get all upset and claim we're the greatest. You see it here in this discussion. Giving our own opinion, we can be quite critical of Pickford. When the media is critical of him, they're biased and we defend him. :)

Agree in general but when it comes to England players there's definitely a bias (and not just him the referees). They came home as heroes for doing bang average at the world cup. Harry Kane was poor at best over there yet came home to a knighthood! 

The media do like to pick one to blame though. Used to be Sterling but now it's Pickford. Has been David Beckham and Rooney in the past. So at least Jordan is in good company, tends to be the better players. 

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I don't give a crap if a player is a ballon  dor  winner or some 18 year old kid promoted from the youth team.  I've got firm beliefs as to what things a player can be excused for and what they can't.

Will I excuse a player for missing a sitter from 6 yards if they work their arse off, help their team mates and are a positive impact on the team vs a player who doesn't do the hard yards and is more self centred? Yep. 

Will I be more critical of a goalkeeper who makes mistakes when they have a propensity to get involved with opposition fans, make comments about other keepers mistakes, dishes out verbal to team mates etc?  Yep.

For me attitude is everything.  I loved mirallas as a player till he flipped, same with Schneiderlein ...... a loss of attitude = an inability to trust a player. 

I will criticise Walcott but often find it difficult to do when he has busted a gut. .... some times he doesn't though. 

 

It's generally why I like the naismiths, Cahills, Watson's of this world...... we had 11 of them on the pitch in the 80s

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1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

I don't give a crap if a player is a ballon  dor  winner or some 18 year old kid promoted from the youth team.  I've got firm beliefs as to what things a player can be excused for and what they can't.

Will I excuse a player for missing a sitter from 6 yards if they work their arse off, help their team mates and are a positive impact on the team vs a player who doesn't do the hard yards and is more self centred? Yep. 

Will I be more critical of a goalkeeper who makes mistakes when they have a propensity to get involved with opposition fans, make comments about other keepers mistakes, dishes out verbal to team mates etc?  Yep.

For me attitude is everything.  I loved mirallas as a player till he flipped, same with Schneiderlein ...... a loss of attitude = an inability to trust a player. 

I will criticise Walcott but often find it difficult to do when he has busted a gut. .... some times he doesn't though. 

 

It's generally why I like the naismiths, Cahills, Watson's of this world...... we had 11 of them on the pitch in the 80s

In short you don't base it on their individual performance. You base it on whether you like them or not. Probs why you're such a shit scout you don't look at talent just whether you'd like a pint with them or be a neighbour. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

In short you don't base it on their individual performance. You base it on whether you like them or not. Probs why you're such a shit scout you don't look at talent just whether you'd like a pint with them or be a neighbour. 

In short Haf prefers a try hard to a talent 😂

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4 hours ago, pete0 said:

In short you don't base it on their individual performance. You base it on whether you like them or not. Probs why you're such a shit scout you don't look at talent just whether you'd like a pint with them or be a neighbour. 

Not everyone has your scouting talents Pete... not even PSG. 

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3 hours ago, StevO said:

In short Haf prefers a try hard to a talent 😂

In short.... effort and talent aren't mutually exclusive. You do understand that Steve?

I mean.... is Jordan Henderson as talented as Gylfi?  Not even close.  Would you start Gylfi over Henderson? 

Maybe I'm an Evertonian who is lucky enough to have seen us win the league with a side where ability vs  effort was a close call - the team had both in abundance.  But one wouldn't have prospered without the other.

I've seen lesser talented Everton sides achieve more than many of the more talented ones...... the cup win in 95 for example. 

 

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1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

In short.... effort and talent aren't mutually exclusive. You do understand that Steve?

I mean.... is Jordan Henderson as talented as Gylfi?  Not even close.  Would you start Gylfi over Henderson? 

Maybe I'm an Evertonian who is lucky enough to have seen us win the league with a side where ability vs  effort was a close call - the team had both in abundance.  But one wouldn't have prospered without the other.

I've seen lesser talented Everton sides achieve more than many of the more talented ones...... the cup win in 95 for example. 

 

It’s just too easy sometimes. 

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1 minute ago, StevO said:

It’s just too easy sometimes. 

You haven't got a rise if that's what you're thinking... those days have gone.  It's a cyber existence.... very easy to forget that. But the point stands and is one many on here need to remember.... we've won nothing on talent alone - more on attitude than anything else 

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4 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

You haven't got a rise if that's what you're thinking... those days have gone.  It's a cyber existence.... very easy to forget that. But the point stands and is one many on here need to remember.... we've won nothing on talent alone - more on attitude than anything else 

Yeah, that’s a rise. 

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Just now, StevO said:

Yeah, that’s a rise. 

 No... not at all. More an impassioned response as to what I like to see in a team... the very team that we all want to do well and one that I got so much enjoyment from seeing win the league twice in 3 years.

 But hey ho... whatever gives you your kicks eh mate! 🤔

 

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1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Not everyone has your scouting talents Pete... not even PSG. 

You set the bar that low you'd give Walsh a run for his money. Even worse you don't admit you were wrong, you excuse it as the player has somehow got worse! Just off the top of my head you've trumpeted Joe Hart, Welbeck, Bony, RSC, Benteke, and Origi. I don't know anyone as bad at spotting talent. Can't remember if it was you or not, but possibly Januzaj on that list as well. Apologies if not. Still that's quite some doing to be so wrong so often. 

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25 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

 No... not at all. More an impassioned response as to what I like to see in a team... the very team that we all want to do well and one that I got so much enjoyment from seeing win the league twice in 3 years.

 But hey ho... whatever gives you your kicks eh mate! 🤔

 

You replied three times to a throw away comment. You really need to relax mate, it’s Valentine’s Day!

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1 minute ago, pete0 said:

You set the bar that low you'd give Walsh a run for his money. Even worse you don't admit you were wrong, you excuse it as the player has somehow got worse! Just off the top of my head you've trumpeted Joe Hart, Welbeck, Bony, RSC, Benteke, and Origi. I don't know anyone as bad at spotting talent. Can't remember if it was you or not, but possibly Januzaj on that list as well. Apologies if not. Still that's quite some doing to be so wrong so often. 

My scouting and  lack of a crystal ball means I've picked some real dog shit players Pete.... Wilfred Bony, to name but one.......  I still have the impartial ability to recognise that Gerrard was a very good player though tbf.  Have to excuse me..... ruby murray just been delivered. 

Happy Valentine's btw sugar tits x

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15 minutes ago, StevO said:

You replied three times to a throw away comment. You really need to relax mate, it’s Valentine’s Day!

Yep... funny enough just wished Pete happy vals day. You too.... steveo, Peteo, righto.....

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2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

My scouting and  lack of a crystal ball means I've picked some real dog shit players Pete.... Wilfred Bony, to name but one.......  I still have the impartial ability to recognise that Gerrard was a very good player though tbf.  Have to excuse me..... ruby murray just been delivered. 

Happy Valentine's btw sugar tits x

Gerrard was good at most things (Hollywood passing, tackling and decision making being his three main flaws) other than that he was quite rounded 6 or 7 out of 10 for most things. But this is the elite, much better to have a specialist in every position. Liverpool alone have had better players in all three of his positions. Lucas (DM), Alonso (CM), and Firminio (AM) all players I appreciated regardless of them being redshite so you're impartiality spout is out the window. 

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5 hours ago, pete0 said:

Gerrard was good at most things (Hollywood passing, tackling and decision making being his three main flaws) other than that he was quite rounded 6 or 7 out of 10 for most things. But this is the elite, much better to have a specialist in every position. Liverpool alone have had better players in all three of his positions. Lucas (DM), Alonso (CM), and Firminio (AM) all players I appreciated regardless of them being redshite so you're impartiality spout is out the window. 

Not talking about impartiality based on who they play for..... impartiality is your ability to get through any bias you may have....... your biggest bias is your anchoring. Never ever go into recruitment.....

 

 

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On 25/05/2012 at 19:59, pete0 said:

A hit and hope against westham, and don't see why he gets praise for the Milan game, Carra, Hamann and Dudek were their best players which says alot when they still conceeded a handful of goals and should have been many more. The Burnley game where Traore scored the og Gerrard was the worst player on the pitch. Gerrards no better than Kevin Davies or Nolan. Hit and hopes arent a skill the amount of efforts it takes him and he has not a single other attribute. Cant tackle, cant pass, and cant shoot with his eyes open.

 

On 25/05/2012 at 20:19, pete0 said:

Master of the corner flag more like it. Heitinga is a much better passer of the ball, Gerrard is on par with Neville.

 

On 01/06/2012 at 19:37, pete0 said:

Tell me best attributes because he cant pass, tackle, or shoot(closing yer eyes and having a blast doesnt count), no skill, little vision, and his heading is par for the course. He's been fortunate with referees and lucky strikes, it's beyond me how he's managed to pull the wool over peoples eyes for so long. No better than Cattermole, Nolan, or Kevin Davies with the latter 2 being better than him. Closest player to be the next Gerrard is Henderson, all rounder but not quite good at anything.

 

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2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Not talking about impartiality based on who they play for..... impartiality is your ability to get through any bias you may have....... your biggest bias is your anchoring. Never ever go into recruitment.....

 

 

Anchoring, now you're just thinking of Gomes 😉

Don't get why you're digging up old posts. Pretty consistent there and Henderson is still pretty much a similar player. Strange how he's not lauded as the best player ever, just an average all rounder.

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Anchoring, now you're just thinking of Gomes 😉

Don't get why you're digging up old posts. Pretty consistent there and Henderson is still pretty much a similar player. Strange how he's not lauded as the best player ever, just an average all rounder.

I'm "digging" up old posts Pete to try and put a stop being "right" as a competition.....

You are more than prone to bringing up old posts when it suits.  Quite frankly it is boring and is of no benefit to any other readers on the forum....... it's a pissing contest that I've become very very tired of.

Hopefully.... the posts above will act as a reminder that you like every single person on here isn't perfect...... you don't know the game as much as you would like to believe- neither do I. 

As for Henderson vs Gerrard.... very different players.  Similar in stature and that's about it.  Henderson is closer to Phil Neville in style but a great team player.  Gerrard was one of the best all round box to box midfielders we've seen in the prem and if we had him we would have won a few trophies. That's how good he was. Sadly. 

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20 hours ago, Palfy said:

Pleased to hear it mate money well worth spent 👌

It is mate. But I’m not well off and it takes a lot to watch a match for me. It gets so frustrating when players don’t put the same effort in as I, and thousands more put in. For that, I reserve the right to criticise haha.

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It’s all a bit personal really looking in. Few fishermen trying to real the same person in. Wish we could all just drop the agenda’s and get back to discussing football to be honest.

Unless it’s my personal Vendetta to discredit Palfy, but that’s different, I’m in the right.

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3 minutes ago, Shukes said:

It is mate. But I’m not well off and it takes a lot to watch a match for me. It gets so frustrating when players don’t put the same effort in as I, and thousands more put in. For that, I reserve the right to criticise haha.

Right accepted, and doing it with good grace and humour as you have is so much more ingratiating, maybe more will follow your lead 😇

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1 minute ago, Shukes said:

It’s all a bit personal really looking in. Few fishermen trying to real the same person in. Wish we could all just drop the agenda’s and get back to discussing football to be honest.

Unless it’s my personal Vendetta to discredit Palfy, but that’s different, I’m in the right.

Forget what I said in my last post you wanker😂😂

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1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Right accepted, and doing it with good grace and humour as you have is so much more ingratiating, maybe more will follow your lead 😇

Damn I’m not trying hard enough. Who’s your favourite Everton player at the moment Palfy?

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1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Damn I’m not trying hard enough. Who’s your favourite Everton player at the moment Palfy?

That’s a hard one I don’t have favourites as I’m always telling the 8 grandchildren. 
But for getting us as a club I would go for Gomes, and for quality as a player I would probably go with Richarlison. 
Now you’re going to slaughter me I can feel it coming 😀

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7 hours ago, Hafnia said:

I'm "digging" up old posts Pete to try and put a stop being "right" as a competition.....

You are more than prone to bringing up old posts when it suits.  Quite frankly it is boring and is of no benefit to any other readers on the forum....... it's a pissing contest that I've become very very tired of.

Hopefully.... the posts above will act as a reminder that you like every single person on here isn't perfect...... you don't know the game as much as you would like to believe- neither do I. 

As for Henderson vs Gerrard.... very different players.  Similar in stature and that's about it.  Henderson is closer to Phil Neville in style but a great team player.  Gerrard was one of the best all round box to box midfielders we've seen in the prem and if we had him we would have won a few trophies. That's how good he was. Sadly. 

Really don't see how the posts make that point at all, where is the bit I'm wrong and what's the reminder? Talking of Phil Neville, Gerrard is closer to him if you look at true greats like Scholes. He's an all rounder, nothing so special about him other than his treatment by the refs and their deluded fans. 

As for winning things, he anchored them. They'd have won the league with a better DM in his final year. That's the comp they've been after all these years and he was a massive reason why they never. Managers were stuck with him. 

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Just now, pete0 said:

Really don't see how the posts make that point at all. Gerrard is close to Phil Neville if the other player was Scholes. He's an all rounder, nothing so special about him other than his treatment by the refs and their deluded fans. 

As for winning things, he anchored them. They'd have won the league with a better DM in his final year. That's the comp they've been after all these years and he was a massive reason why they never. Managers were stuck with him. 

Anchored? (Maybe i put that word in your head) It's not something I'm likely to passionately argue about - I have no affiliation whatsoever to Gerrard, he basically gave the gloating red nose nob heads reasons to throw all the usual "You haven't won fuck all in years" shouts at us.... because he pretty much gave them theirs in an era dominated by SAF Man United, Wengers  Arsenal and Mourinhos Chelsea..... so therefore i don't like him.

He pretty much dragged Liverpool to that Champions league final in 2005... a team containing the likes of Baros, smicer, djimi traore. Lashed in a rocket to get to the knock out stages against Olympiacos - started the comeback in the final and won the penno to level it.  The 2006 FA cup.... another screamer....

I honestly lost count of the number of times he dug them out of the shit and I put much of their self belief and doggedness we have seen over the years down to him.

Zidane rated him as the most complete midfielder, Kaka had him in the top 3 with Ronaldo and Messi,  Henry basically said the same......

Yet you think he's on a par with Phil Neville?  You said Gerrard is at the same level as Nolan and cattermole.....

Sorry Pete..... but find me the most bitter and twisted blue and they would say you are talking absolute shite mate 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Really don't see how the posts make that point at all, where is the bit I'm wrong and what's the reminder? Talking of Phil Neville, Gerrard is closer to him if you look at true greats like Scholes. He's an all rounder, nothing so special about him other than his treatment by the refs and their deluded fans. 

As for winning things, he anchored them. They'd have won the league with a better DM in his final year. That's the comp they've been after all these years and he was a massive reason why they never. Managers were stuck with him. 

Fucking hell Pete were is the bit that says your right, Haf is right none of us are perfect we say things and give our opinions that’s all mate, whether we think we are right we have to accept others may not.

So let’s put this to bed now mate you both make good points depending what side of the debate you are on, but the personal stuff is unnecessary it can’t be enjoyable for either of you, and masks the good stuff you say.

Im sure if you could see past the red mist of the personal stuff you would probably respect each other much more and we could enjoy some good debates from 2 knowledgeable posters, one of you hand out the Oliver branch and one of you take it , trust me you will enjoy yourselves so much more. 

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31 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Fucking hell Pete were is the bit that says your right, Haf is right none of us are perfect we say things and give our opinions that’s all mate, whether we think we are right we have to accept others may not.

So let’s put this to bed now mate you both make good points depending what side of the debate you are on, but the personal stuff is unnecessary it can’t be enjoyable for either of you, and masks the good stuff you say.

Im sure if you could see past the red mist of the personal stuff you would probably respect each other much more and we could enjoy some good debates from 2 knowledgeable posters, one of you hand out the Oliver branch and one of you take it , trust me you will enjoy yourselves so much more. 

Palfy.... it really is a waste of time. I knew the Gerrard piece was the most likely acid test and fail it he did.

If someone compares Gerrards level to Lee Cattermole and can't see the absolute insanity of that then really it makes you question the logic of debating with them doesn't it?

It's like having a chat about whether the earth is round with a flat earther..... it's not about whether it's true. It's about them proving that it is possible to make ridiculous counter arguments to the most proven of things.  In short..... it's futile, they need the engagement of disagreement more than the passion of the subject itself.

Kinda where I've been at this week. I've tried to lay all that old cat and mouse shit to bed but it's just not registering.... it's like trying to brush a tigers teeth with a sirloin steak on your head and expecting him to be a good boy and say ahhhhhhhh

On a serious note.... I've seen the sad headlines about Caroline flack and whilst this is a forum that supposedly talks about football. We've all got a responsibility to respect each other.... it's not Grand Old Team where people get gaslighted for fun with crude jokes made about family members etc.  Something for us all to be mindful of. 

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1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

He pretty much dragged Liverpool to that Champions league final in 2005... a team containing the likes of Baros, smicer, djimi traore. Lashed in a rocket to get to the knock out stages against Olympiacos - started the comeback in the final and won the penno to level it.  The 2006 FA cup.... another screamer....

They also had Hamann and Alonso, greater players than Gerrard could ever emulate. 

Those screamers cost the club and fans more as they'd have been better off had he passed the ball more. How many of them went screaming over the bar? They look good when they go in on motd though, similarly the Hollywood passes. 

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1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

On a serious note.... I've seen the sad headlines about Caroline flack and whilst this is a forum that supposedly talks about football. We've all got a responsibility to respect each other.... it's not Grand Old Team where people get gaslighted for fun with crude jokes made about family members etc.  Something for us all to be mindful of. 

My sons just told me the sad news, sadly not everybody can cope with living in the spotlight, another loss that shouldn’t have been.

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27 minutes ago, pete0 said:

They also had Hamann and Alonso, greater players than Gerrard could ever emulate. 

Those screamers cost the club and fans more as they'd have been better off had he passed the ball more. How many of them went screaming over the bar? They look good when they go in on motd though, similarly the Hollywood passes. 

Hamann and Alonso were great players. I have my thoughts on the comparison of them but it's not really relevant here cos at least they were quality -  Alonso especially.......  but the fact is you are comparing Gerrard to Kevin Nolan and Lee Cattermole?  I mean... did either of them come even close to an England call up me we mind captain the national team. 

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34 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

My sons just told me the sad news, sadly not everybody can cope with living in the spotlight, another loss that shouldn’t have been.

The whole reality TV, Instagram, Facebook bullshit is toxic.

Cosmetically enhanced egomaniacs projecting a false life that makes people believe that money, cars, houses, good looks, popularity, likes etc = happiness.  Anything without these is failure...

My wife is a nurse and looks after kids. She says social media is a problem with mental health cases.   

The other week I emailed one of the mods at Grandoldteam to highlight the hypocrisy of having a mental health thread - yet the mods laugh and join in when posters insult other posters family members.  I asked them if they are aware as to whether they knew if they insulted relative was sick/recently deceased etc?  Their response was "don't tell me what to do with our site"

We probably all get pissed off and go too far on here sometimes but it's an important reminder that none of us know what each other is going through.  So whilst I sound hypocritical because I can be a narky prick at times - I would hate to think I would hurt someone's feelings. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Hamann and Alonso were great players. I have my thoughts on the comparison of them but it's not really relevant here cos at least they were quality -  Alonso especially.......  but the fact is you are comparing Gerrard to Kevin Nolan and Lee Cattermole?  I mean... did either of them come even close to an England call up me we mind captain the national team. 

Not relevant as it blows your Baros shouts to smithereens?

Talent wise there's very little between Nolan and Gerrard. They're a lot closer than Gerrard is to the truly great players. 

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7 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Not relevant as it blows your Baros shouts to smithereens?

Talent wise there's very little between Nolan and Gerrard. They're a lot closer than Gerrard is to the truly great players. 

Not sure about the Baros bit.... for me a very hot or cold player who had one good international tournament and that's it.

But again... the who "blows your Baros shouts to smithereens".... it's not a competition!!!!  

The reason we are here talking about Gerrard is that I'm using him as an example that every single one of us aren't experts and we get things wrong. Ate you now saying he wasn't comparable to Cattermole- because that would at least allow me to conclude this tiring point that none of us are experts..... even you. 

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9 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Not sure about the Baros bit.... for me a very hot or cold player who had one good international tournament and that's it.

But again... the who "blows your Baros shouts to smithereens".... it's not a competition!!!!  

The reason we are here talking about Gerrard is that I'm using him as an example that every single one of us aren't experts and we get things wrong. Ate you now saying he wasn't comparable to Cattermole- because that would at least allow me to conclude this tiring point that none of us are experts..... even you. 

You named squad players to try and make Gerrard this god who carried the team. Yet he had two World Cup winners, both of whom are better midfielders than him, doing all the hard work. How am I wrong? Gerrard might score the odd bang but unless you only watch motd you'd see he's no where near the elite and he's cost his team rather than benefited. 

Cattermole shouldn't have been a footballer. Gerrard should have been a great squad player, instead he was the anchor who held the shite back. Just look at them now without him. 

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Just now, pete0 said:

You named squad players to try and make Gerrard this god who carried the team. Yet he had two World Cup winners, both of whom are better midfielders than him, doing all the hard work. How am I wrong? Gerrard might score the odd bang but unless you only watch motd you'd see he's no where near the elite and he's cost his team rather than benefited. 

So... was Gerrard at Cattermoles level? 

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8 minutes ago, pete0 said:

You're boring me now. He's closer to him than he ever was Scholes or Hamann or Alonso. Was Gerrard an AM, CM or DM? 

Well that concludes matters.... youve admitted that "no he's not at Cattermole level" which means you were wrong.... just like Harry Kane wasn't a one season wonder - which he categorically proved by scoring more on several more occasions. Fact. 

Which brings me back to my initial point..... stop treating everything like a pissing contest.  Players can and will prove us "all" wrong....  so just chill out on having to stick to your first opinion...  Romey wasn't fussed on Richarlison but like a him now... it shows an ability to reassess judgement and not allow the ego to impact it. 

 I disiked then liked, then disliked then liked now dislike Michael Keane as a player..... I'm fine with that. It kinda follows his pattern of form for the club. It makes sense.  I think Gareth Southgate has followed the same pattern.

 

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31 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Well that concludes matters.... youve admitted that "no he's not at Cattermole level" which means you were wrong.... just like Harry Kane wasn't a one season wonder - which he categorically proved by scoring more on several more occasions. Fact. 

Which brings me back to my initial point..... stop treating everything like a pissing contest.  Players can and will prove us "all" wrong....  so just chill out on having to stick to your first opinion...  Romey wasn't fussed on Richarlison but like a him now... it shows an ability to reassess judgement and not allow the ego to impact it. 

 I disiked then liked, then disliked then liked now dislike Michael Keane as a player..... I'm fine with that. It kinda follows his pattern of form for the club. It makes sense.  I think Gareth Southgate has followed the same pattern.

 

Fuckin'ell that me proven wrong, oh the shame 😱... Not that you've cherry picked at all. Any how thought this wasn't a big and right out wrong game and I should chill out. Your head's well and truly fell off. Fuck me, now you mention Harry Kane. Failed at every club bar one, and England's worse player at the world cup. Let's see how he does without Eriksen. 

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