markjazzbassist Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 So am I. not for me, England ruins all their young players by trying to make them their savior. if I have to pick I'd honestly probably say play for Nigeria, ACON but he wouldn't have all the pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 not for me, England ruins all their young players by trying to make them their savior. if I have to pick I'd honestly probably say play for Nigeria, ACON but he wouldn't have all the pressure. But we'd have an international standard player, by your reasoning you'd rather we still had Dan Gosling than Ross because he'd not be spoiled by England call ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) But we'd have an international standard player, by your reasoning you'd rather we still had Dan Gosling than Ross because he'd not be spoiled by England call ups. by my rationale I'd rather ross found a distant relative and played for that country not England. been a disaster for him so far. the manager is gareth southgate for heaven's sake! Edited January 19, 2017 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 by my rationale I'd rather ross found a distant relative and played for that country not England. been a disaster for him so far. the manager is gareth southgate for heaven's sake! Ross had the option to play for Nigeria. markjazzbassist and nyblue23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Ross had the option to play for Nigeria. yep would have rather that happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Fundamentally, my point is that if a guy who's played four minutes for us becomes international standard (for any country) then it's good news for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Not any Country. What about San Marino? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Not any Country. What about San Marino? sure great, at least he wouldn't have the pressure of an entire nations 51 year WC drought on his sole hands. Edited January 19, 2017 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Delle Alli seems to be doing OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Delle Alli seems to be doing OK. hows the other kid wonders doing? wilshere, Walcott, ox, rooney, Henderson, sterling, sturridge, Stones, ward prowse, rodriguez, shaw, etc. only one that actual is doing alright (consistently, give alli more time and we will see) is Lallana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I'll be made up if he's good enough to be called up to any national team one day. It says a lot already that Nigeria is looking to talk to him. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I'll be made up if he's good enough to be called up to any national team one day. It says a lot already that Nigeria is looking to talk to him.not really, they took Vic too remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 not really, they took Vic too remember.Touché. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Wilshire, doing well at Bournemouth. Struggled at Arsenal due to injuries. Don't see an England problem. Walcott, having a good season at Arsenal. Ox, struggling for form this year. Rooney, England's highest ever goal scorer. Uniteds joint highest. Past his best though. Henderson, captain of a team second in the prem. I can keep going, but not all of these were Englands saviours. Stones is still just a kid. Ward Prowse is a very talented kid but never seen him touted as a great player, Rodriguez? Not seen any England hype either. If a player is good enough he should go and play. If he can't handle the pressure he's not good enough. nyblue23 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyblue23 Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Was going to break down that list myself; some very good players there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Wilshire, doing well at Bournemouth. Struggled at Arsenal due to injuries. Don't see an England problem. Walcott, having a good season at Arsenal. Ox, struggling for form this year. Rooney, England's highest ever goal scorer. Uniteds joint highest. Past his best though. Henderson, captain of a team second in the prem. I can keep going, but not all of these were Englands saviours. Stones is still just a kid. Ward Prowse is a very talented kid but never seen him touted as a great player, Rodriguez? Not seen any England hype either. If a player is good enough he should go and play. If he can't handle the pressure he's not good enough. you and I are on different wavelengths. wilshere a standout on a lower table side, Walcott shows up for arsenal but not england, Ox below average, Henderson yard dog, rooney well past it and never showed up in tourneys for England, stones not doing so well, ward prowse can't even get games for soton let alone england, rodriguez was highly touted after bagging all those goals and lost his form no more england. Sturridge one injury away from retirement after so many of them, Shaw can't get game time on a side that plays a CB/DCM in his position (blind) let alone time with the national team. welbeck plying his trade with the reserves. like I said the only one that would be considered a real product is Lallana. I do rate kyle walker and danny rose but I've never heard of them touted as wonder kids like the above. point is steve England isn't great, but add to that fact the press absolutely destroys these young kids before they can even become anything and it's just a bad situation. I'd rather have him play for a side nationally where that insane microscope with the press isn't on him. and if the press don't destroy them, the manager does. exhibit A ross barkley and roy hodgson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 No way do we want him to play for Nigeria, AFCON every second year, flying thousands of miles to play in games. Fuck that at least with England he'll do less travelling and will also receive better coaching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Who have the press destroyed Mark? None of the players you have listed have been destroyed. That's my point. England doesn't ruin players and neither do the press. If a player doesn't have it in his make up to deal with pressure and expectation then that's on them. Look at Rooney, look at Beckham. They were both touted at saviours, both did great but didn't have enough other players at their level to have any success with the England team. They were also massively in the spot light, given so much grief by the press, yet they both carried on doing a great job for club and country time and time again. Because they were tough enough to deal with it. If Barkley, or any other player coming through, can't handle it that's on them. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Who have the press destroyed Mark? None of the players you have listed have been destroyed. That's my point. England doesn't ruin players and neither do the press. If a player doesn't have it in his make up to deal with pressure and expectation then that's on them. Look at Rooney, look at Beckham. They were both touted at saviours, both did great but didn't have enough other players at their level to have any success with the England team. They were also massively in the spot light, given so much grief by the press, yet they both carried on doing a great job for club and country time and time again. Because they were tough enough to deal with it. If Barkley, or any other player coming through, can't handle it that's on them. jack wilshere, every club he hits or ciggy he smokes is all over the papers. rooney every prostitiute scandal, every "lady on the side" is reported, his porn posts on instagram, etc and all over the papers for weeks. happens all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 Who have the press destroyed Mark? None of the players you have listed have been destroyed. That's my point. England doesn't ruin players and neither do the press. If a player doesn't have it in his make up to deal with pressure and expectation then that's on them. Look at Rooney, look at Beckham. They were both touted at saviours, both did great but didn't have enough other players at their level to have any success with the England team. They were also massively in the spot light, given so much grief by the press, yet they both carried on doing a great job for club and country time and time again. Because they were tough enough to deal with it. If Barkley, or any other player coming through, can't handle it that's on them. Yes and no. It's on both sides, the media and the player - or to put it another way, cause and affect. I'd also say that the Beckham and Rooney generation was arguably the best in my lifetime (Gerrard, Cole, Neville, Ferdinand, Lampard, Scholes, etc.) but that the team was let down by the FA by hiring shite managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 hows the other kid wonders doing? wilshere, Walcott, ox, rooney, Henderson, sterling, sturridge, Stones, ward prowse, rodriguez, shaw, etc. only one that actual is doing alright (consistently, give alli more time and we will see) is Lallana. How's Freddy Adu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 How's Freddy Adu? ?? this isn't an America versus England argument newts, it's whether playing for the English national team as a youngster is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 To be fair Rooney has been destroyed. If it weren't for expectation he would have probably ended up being England's all time leading scorer, Utd's too! Probably would have won a few trophys too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) To be fair Rooney has been destroyed. If it weren't for expectation he would have probably ended up being England's all time leading scorer, Utd's too! Probably would have won a few trophys too. I hope no ones needing a sarcasm font for this one! Edited January 20, 2017 by Romey 1878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 To be fair Rooney has been destroyed. If it weren't for expectation he would have probably ended up being England's all time leading scorer, Utd's too! Probably would have won a few trophys too. which trophies were with England (the very team we are talking about here)? oh yeah, none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 ?? this isn't an America versus England argument newts, it's whether playing for the English national team as a youngster is a good idea. But it seems ironic that, as an American, you question whether youngsters should play for England at a young age because of 'blah blah blah' and yet you guys did the same to Adu!!! Of course it's a good idea to play for England! You've created such a novice, stupid argument here and backed yourself into a corner by naming a number of players who have had or are having really good careers. It's a dream to play for your country. Yes, there is pressure. Yes, we get a bit excited by a prospect. Yes, the media is a pain in the arse. Yes, we dream. Yes, we arent that good. But it's still playing for your country! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 which trophies were with England (the very team we are talking about here)? oh yeah, none. Sorry I thought you were saying the press had destroyed young players. My mistake. Just so you know though, England haven't won a trophy since 66, because we aren't good enough. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 But it seems ironic that, as an American, you question whether youngsters should play for England at a young age because of 'blah blah blah' and yet you guys did the same to Adu!!! Of course it's a good idea to play for England! You've created such a novice, stupid argument here and backed yourself into a corner by naming a number of players who have had or are having really good careers. It's a dream to play for your country. Yes, there is pressure. Yes, we get a bit excited by a prospect. Yes, the media is a pain in the arse. Yes, we dream. Yes, we arent that good. But it's still playing for your country! newts you've gone of the rails. England is starved for success, and the culture around the national team can be very toxic. That's what I'm saying. Look back in the Barkley thread to when he got outed by Hodgson and you'll see many many people (English too btw) say the same thing. As far as US youngsters Freddy Adu was like 11 years ago and yes they completely ruined him. no question. but we aren't a soccer mad country (5th, 6th? most popular sport) and don't really have talented youngsters to be honest. Pulisic at Dortmund is the exception but other than that there's really no one to "messiah" sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 20, 2017 Report Share Posted January 20, 2017 newts you've gone of the rails. England is starved for success, and the culture around the national team can be very toxic. That's what I'm saying. Look back in the Barkley thread to when he got outed by Hodgson and you'll see many many people (English too btw) say the same thing. I read the Barkley stuff at the time. Didn't agree with it. Blown out of proportion for me. He's shown the same tendencies playing for us, as Koeman has said. England over Nigeria though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmegwolf203 Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/01/20/ademola-savouring-blues-start Really enjoy this interview, the video and the extra dialogue below. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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