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Ademola Lookman

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9 hours ago, Bill said:

I'd choose Bernard over both of them.

Bernard for me doesn’t do enough. Full of lovely touches but very little penetration. I’d like to know how many shots he’s had in what is likely over 20 appearances. Lookman has the most potential but for some reason Silva doesn’t fancy him either it appears. It’s like he needs to produce an 8/10 performance to keep his place when the aforementioned produce 5 or 6 and keep their place. Lookman needs a run of games in the team then we can judge him the same as the other two, who can count themselves fortunate to play so much.

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6 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

Bernard for me doesn’t do enough. Full of lovely touches but very little penetration. I’d like to know how many shots he’s had in what is likely over 20 appearances. Lookman has the most potential but for some reason Silva doesn’t fancy him either it appears. It’s like he needs to produce an 8/10 performance to keep his place when the aforementioned produce 5 or 6 and keep their place. Lookman needs a run of games in the team then we can judge him the same as the other two, who can count themselves fortunate to play so much.

Silva is making the same judgements as Koeman when it comes to team selection , he’s in shit street and panicking selecting the most expensive or experienced players over the best, Lookman doesn’t fall into the categories he’s selecting from. 

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9 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

Bernard for me doesn’t do enough. Full of lovely touches but very little penetration. I’d like to know how many shots he’s had in what is likely over 20 appearances. Lookman has the most potential but for some reason Silva doesn’t fancy him either it appears. It’s like he needs to produce an 8/10 performance to keep his place when the aforementioned produce 5 or 6 and keep their place. Lookman needs a run of games in the team then we can judge him the same as the other two, who can count themselves fortunate to play so much.

The thing with Bernard is that he's still getting used to the league, so bringing him in to start one game and then benching him for 2 isn'tt going to help him at all. He should just be started for 5 games in a row, no matter how he plays, so that we can get him up to speed. He's been handled all wrong IMO.

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1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

The thing with Bernard is that he's still getting used to the league, so bringing him in to start one game and then benching him for 2 isn'ttt going to help him at all. He should just be started for 5 games in a row, no matter how he plays, so that we can get him up to speed. He's been handled all wrong IMO.

Totally. The lad is top class but he needs a run of games. Look at mata and David Silva. They got played on the wing and were half the players they are. He needs to play we’re gilfi plays. Watch him go if he plays in the “hole” you will see a different player after 5-10 games 

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3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

The thing with Bernard is that he's still getting used to the league, so bringing him in to start one game and then benching him for 2 isn'ttt going to help him at all. He should just be started for 5 games in a row, no matter how he plays, so that we can get him up to speed. He's been handled all wrong IMO.

He definitely needs to be starting ahead of the other wide players. When he did have a run of games he was getting better and then he has been in and out again. 

1 hour ago, Finn balor said:

Totally. The lad is top class but he needs a run of games. Look at mata and David Silva. They got played on the wing and were half the players they are. He needs to play we’re gilfi plays. Watch him go if he plays in the “hole” you will see a different player after 5-10 games 

But this took time. They played wide until they were used to the league and Mata almost always plays wide because he is such a luxury through the middle.

The other thing about Bernard is he barely stays on his feet when another player touches him. Not because he is diving like a certain other player but because he is very lightweight. Even when he has come through the middle for us he loses the ball because he is on his arse from a gust of air. The lad needs time to get used to the league and play week in week out. Maybe next season he can start being more influential through the centre but he deserves more time before he is pushed into a much more demanding position.

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37 minutes ago, StevO said:

I don’t see anything in Lookmans game time this season to justify him starting, not that Walcott has done much better. 

For me we should have took the money in the summer. 

I think its always going to be hard to justify anyone starting week in week out when they havent been given a chance to do so. That in itself is a chicken and egg scenario. 

Walcott has had his chance and IMO hasnt taken it, whereas Lookman has started maybe 1 or 2 games in a row and in fairness to him he looked great in one of those starts. One good performance doesnt mean anything though. 

The one thing I would say is that we have too many wingers for the spots available and that is making things difficult with such a small amount of games. Only 2 can play and that means Silva has to juggle the team around to keep players happy and then we end up with this situation where one comes in one week, then out the next. 

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3 hours ago, StevO said:

I don’t see anything in Lookmans game time this season to justify him starting, not that Walcott has done much better. 

For me we should have took the money in the summer. 

Add to that, that last year albeit from little game Vlasic looked to have a lot more to him as well. Crazy that we owned down nearly £30m for the 5th (potentially 7th if you include Sig and Bolasie) choice. 

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10 hours ago, Finn balor said:

Totally. The lad is top class but he needs a run of games. Look at mata and David Silva. They got played on the wing and were half the players they are. He needs to play we’re gilfi plays. Watch him go if he plays in the “hole” you will see a different player after 5-10 games 

I just don’t see it. He’s far too lightweight to ever make it as a top player in this league. Silva and mata are both small too but they’re stronger. And also a different level of football player. Bernard falls over himself never mind when anyone comes near him. He’s been benched as often as he started and Fans have not really been banging the drum that he must start. And this team is really shit. That speaks volumes for me.

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And I like lookman. I think he’s a good passer, tries to make things happen and has a shot. If he started the next ten games I’d fancy him to get a couple of goals, I wouldn’t fancy Bernard to get a league goal this season...

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7 hours ago, Bailey said:

I think its always going to be hard to justify anyone starting week in week out when they havent been given a chance to do so. That in itself is a chicken and egg scenario. 

Walcott has had his chance and IMO hasnt taken it, whereas Lookman has started maybe 1 or 2 games in a row and in fairness to him he looked great in one of those starts. One good performance doesnt mean anything though. 

The one thing I would say is that we have too many wingers for the spots available and that is making things difficult with such a small amount of games. Only 2 can play and that means Silva has to juggle the team around to keep players happy and then we end up with this situation where one comes in one week, then out the next. 

I get the point, but all I’ve seen is a lad with a lot of pace and ability turn back when faced up to a defender. I’ve hardly seen him run past a man, I’ve seen him offer no width (it’s so easy to defend when the attacking side go narrow). I’d love to see him get some chalk on his boots and beat a man, he’s capable, but he wants to come inside and play in front of the defender every time. We need him getting around the back, he doesn’t want to do it. 

I get the point that he’s not had many starts, but I don’t recall a winger needing a run of games to be able to run past a man or to even get wide. I’m just starting to doubt his ability to become a top premier league player. He isn’t seeing weakness in opponents and taking advantage.

Now to be balanced none of our wingers are, but I see players like Barnes at Leicester doing it, Gray at Leicester doing it, what’s the lads name at Leeds? There are young players out there going at defenders at scaring them, Lookman isn’t one of them. 

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19 hours ago, StevO said:

I get the point, but all I’ve seen is a lad with a lot of pace and ability turn back when faced up to a defender. I’ve hardly seen him run past a man, I’ve seen him offer no width (it’s so easy to defend when the attacking side go narrow). I’d love to see him get some chalk on his boots and beat a man, he’s capable, but he wants to come inside and play in front of the defender every time. We need him getting around the back, he doesn’t want to do it. 

I get the point that he’s not had many starts, but I don’t recall a winger needing a run of games to be able to run past a man or to even get wide. I’m just starting to doubt his ability to become a top premier league player. He isn’t seeing weakness in opponents and taking advantage.

Now to be balanced none of our wingers are, but I see players like Barnes at Leicester doing it, Gray at Leicester doing it, what’s the lads name at Leeds? There are young players out there going at defenders at scaring them, Lookman isn’t one of them. 

You have to balance that off against the fact that none of our wingers are doing that. The one game Lookman did play really well in he did all you asked, but I agree he needs to do that consistently and not just in one game. 

The other two important things about Barnes and Gray in particular is that they permanently play on the counter attack whereas we will generally have more control of the ball and therefore there is less space for them to play. A little off piste but the one thing Martinez used to get right was that he knew how to work the ball so that it left the defender 1 v 1 with the winger. He made Calumn McManaman look like a world beater just he could isolate the full back and take him on. Its one of the same reason Pep keeps his wingers both so wide. By the time any of ours get decent ball they have normally been doubled up. 

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34 minutes ago, Bailey said:

You have to balance that off against the fact that none of our wingers are doing that. The one game Lookman did play really well in he did all you asked, but I agree he needs to do that consistently and not just in one game. 

The other two important things about Barnes and Gray in particular is that they permanently play on the counter attack whereas we will generally have more control of the ball and therefore there is less space for them to play. A little off piste but the one thing Martinez used to get right was that he knew how to work the ball so that it left the defender 1 v 1 with the winger. He made Calumn McManaman look like a world beater just he could isolate the full back and take him on. Its one of the same reason Pep keeps his wingers both so wide. By the time any of ours get decent ball they have normally been doubled up. 

I find it so frustrating because he has everything in his ability to do the typical winger stuff, getting wide, beating men, picking a cross out. I just want to see him do more of it, I just don’t think he will. 

I agree completely, there were spells he would do the same with Gerry. He had a run in the side where he seemed to be dropping a ball at the front post two or three times again, he had the time to place it where he wanted it because he had isolated the defender. Roberto was such a good counter attacking coach, it makes me wonder why he wanted Tika Taka so much when it clearly wasn’t his strength. 

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5 hours ago, StevO said:

I find it so frustrating because he has everything in his ability to do the typical winger stuff, getting wide, beating men, picking a cross out. I just want to see him do more of it, I just don’t think he will. 

I agree completely, there were spells he would do the same with Gerry. He had a run in the side where he seemed to be dropping a ball at the front post two or three times again, he had the time to place it where he wanted it because he had isolated the defender. Roberto was such a good counter attacking coach, it makes me wonder why he wanted Tika Taka so much when it clearly wasn’t his strength. 

I think we can only judge him properly when we get a proper striker in. 

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9 hours ago, barryj said:

And then do what with it? Cross into an empty box? 

You can't really believe that's why he doesn't do it. There has been a striker there plenty of times when he has the ball and he elects to turn back, slow the play down.

He's annoying to watch because he's just not positive enough on the ball. He picks the ball up in great positions and you just want him to run forward, he doesn't even need to stay wide to do that.

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On 13/02/2019 at 10:00, Romey 1878 said:

You can't really believe that's why he doesn't do it. There has been a striker there plenty of times when he has the ball and he elects to turn back, slow the play down.

He's annoying to watch because he's just not positive enough on the ball. He picks the ball up in great positions and you just want him to run forward, he doesn't even need to stay wide to do that.

That’s not what I saw in the games Ive seen him play for England and RB Leipzig. I think it’s lack of confidence that’s running through the team and when your playing badly everyone fans included are in a negative frame of mind. We go back to plying it safe which leads to lack of chances. 

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Still can’t believe Lookman hasn’t broken into this team yet.

It makes 0 sense why he hasn’t taken more mintues from Walcott, who has been out of form and arguably our lost ineffective player for all but a handful of games this season. 

Something behind the scenes going on I fear, can’t see us keeping him unfortunately.

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Only thing I can think of is that Silva wants experienced players to help stop the rot, rather than put the weight on a kids shoulders (would apply to Schneiderlin playing instead of Davies, Coleman coming back in for Kenny).  I imagine / hope that once there's a little stability, we'll see him play the kids a bit more including Lookman. The other theory I have is that we've sorted out some kinda part-exchange for Lookman and their young striker that we're supposedly after and that we're "wrapping him up" so the injury chance is reduced.

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Against Liverpool Walcott was part of the strategy. He was often the furthest forward in hope of getting on to a DCL knock on. 

Really don't see why people want Lookman to be starting especially against a top 6 side, his off ball is no where near this level. He's good on the ball but you'd be sacrificing an awful lot of space which would leave Coleman exposed. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Against Liverpool Walcott was part of the strategy. He was often the furthest forward in hope of getting on to a DCL knock on. 

Really don't see why people want Lookman to be starting especially against a top 6 side, his off ball is no where near this level. He's good on the ball but you'd be sacrificing an awful lot of space which would leave Coleman exposed. 

This. 

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4 hours ago, pete0 said:

Against Liverpool Walcott was part of the strategy. He was often the furthest forward in hope of getting on to a DCL knock on. 

Really don't see why people want Lookman to be starting especially against a top 6 side, his off ball is no where near this level. He's good on the ball but you'd be sacrificing an awful lot of space which would leave Coleman exposed. 

When he came on against Liverpool in the reverse fixture I thought he was one of our best players, however I know you're making the point of starting the game. 

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7 hours ago, pete0 said:

Against Liverpool Walcott was part of the strategy. He was often the furthest forward in hope of getting on to a DCL knock on. 

Really don't see why people want Lookman to be starting especially against a top 6 side, his off ball is no where near this level. He's good on the ball but you'd be sacrificing an awful lot of space which would leave Coleman exposed. 

Exactly. 

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13 hours ago, pete0 said:

If that’s true (I’m not opening Echo links, it’s impossible to read without tearing hair out) then it’s ridiculous. His job isn’t to defend, its to create chances. 

The sooner people play to players strengths, the sooner we’ll realize our potential 

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

If that’s true (I’m not opening Echo links, it’s impossible to read without tearing hair out) then it’s ridiculous. His job isn’t to defend, its to create chances. 

The sooner people play to players strengths, the sooner we’ll realize our potential 

If we were dropping lookman to play an Aaron Lennon type player who acted as a second full back and was extremely good defensively then I could understand it.   But he has been dropped for Walcott who offers nothing attacking or defensively. 

Funny enough in the thread I mentioned before about Jimmy Harris (longest thread) he did say that he found it strange how Walcott has ended up.  I think he was poiltely suggesting that his heart isn'tt in it and her not the player he thought he would be. Far more diplomatic than me but I could sense he was puzzled by his continued inclusion. 

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13 hours ago, hafnia said:

But he has been dropped for Walcott who offers nothing attacking or defensively

Exactly.

If Walcott is the only other option, then play Lookman and let him learn and develop with first team time. 

Bernard and Richarlison should keep him out at the minute.

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Lookman hasnt shown enough recently to suggest he would do any better than Walcott. Bar one ball here and there he has only shown a good enough level of form in 1 appearance. Its hard being a bit part player but he needs to do more.

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3 hours ago, Bailey said:

Lookman hasnt shown enough recently to suggest he would do any better than Walcott. Bar one ball here and there he has only shown a good enough level of form in 1 appearance. Its hard being a bit part player but he needs to do more.

I disagree, but going along with it...

The difference is he's 21 and unlikely to be a finished product.  He's got improvement in him, but he needs to play to get there. 

Walcott isn'tt taking Everton where we want to go, Lookman still might...or earn a decent transfer fee.  China is probably the only hope for Walcott, without taking a big loss.

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5 hours ago, DownUnderToff said:

I disagree, but going along with it...

The difference is he's 21 and unlikely to be a finished product.  He's got improvement in him, but he needs to play to get there. 

Walcott isn'ttt taking Everton where we want to go, Lookman still might...or earn a decent transfer fee.  China is probably the only hope for Walcott, without taking a big loss.

Yeh they are fair points, but from Silva's point of vìew he is under pressure and whilst with Lookman there is more chance of the odd high quality performance, you are going to a certain level from Walcott in his overall play. 

Teams will always want Walcott. Chairman, managers and even fans will just like the sound of his name. The big issue with him is wages.

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10 hours ago, Bailey said:

Lookman hasnt shown enough recently to suggest he would do any better than Walcott. Bar one ball here and there he has only shown a good enough level of form in 1 appearance. Its hard being a bit part player but he needs to do more.

The highlights of lookman far outweighs walcotts.  I can't actually think of many for Theo. I'd sooner develop an immature inexperienced talent when we have nothing to play for than indulge an older pro who should do more than go through the motions. 

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1 hour ago, hafnia said:

The highlights of lookman far outweighs walcotts.  I can't actually think of many for Theo. I'd sooner develop an immature inexperienced talent when we have nothing to play for than indulge an older pro who should do more than go through the motions. 

I would rather we play Bernard and Richarlison.

The difficulty we have had with Lookman is that he should be able to come on in game we have control of with half hour to play to finish the game off. Build his confidence, develop his talent and then when we have games where it will take a bit of quality to unpick a defence, he can start. The problem is we have had next to no opportunity to do that because we have been so poor too regularly. But again I repeat my second post with Downunder in that Silva probably sees Walcott's consistency as more preferable at this stage rather than what will be highs and lows with Lookman. If we were sitting in 7th chasing down the top 6 and Walcott/Richarlison/Bernard were underperforming, then I think Silva would feel more able to trust in the talent of Lookman, but he is under pressure and chucking in a kid ahead of 2 of the 3 mentioned above will rock the boat in the changing room and he probably cant afford that at the moment.

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20 hours ago, Bailey said:

Lookman hasnt shown enough recently to suggest he would do any better than Walcott. Bar one ball here and there he has only shown a good enough level of form in 1 appearance. Its hard being a bit part player but he needs to do more.

Well of course not, he hasn’t played recently. Getting a minute here and there isn’t going to show anything. 

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Again, fans expect him to come in and win games singlehandedly. If he doesn’t, then he isn’t worth it.

Expectations can ruin players, unless you have progressive management .

 

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21 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Again, fans expect him to come in and win games singlehandedly. If he doesn’t, then he isn’t worth it.

Expectations can ruin players, unless you have progressive management .

 

You need to be at a level with the basics enough not to impede the team. Atm Lookman isn'tt good enough at the basics so poses too much risk to be starting. Should've loaned him out to the championship so he could learn but he was too arrogant for the move, like most kids these days they want to run before they can walk. 

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Football isn’t all about what you do when you have the ball it’s as much about what you do when you don’t have the ball, Lookman doesn’t work hard enough or clever enough when he doesn’t have the ball and he’s no where near good enough to be classed as a luxury player, he has a lot to learn when he’s played he hasn’t made a difference in some ways he’s been a liability because of his dereliction of defensive duties, and he has allowed people to go without tracking them which has led to us conceding goals. 

Walcott is a hard working player who can see the bigger picture yes he has bad games and he gets punished for them by being dropped, the manager fought to keep Lookman so it must be hard for him to concede that he was maybe wrong about were he was in his development, because with Richarlison getting playing time on the right he has become 3rd choice and can’t make the bench and I for one can see why. 

I think we should have taken the 21 million we were offered because we could do more with that than him languishing in the U23s. 

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Maybe we need an age cut off. If young players haven’t set the world alight by 21.... get rid!

Let young up and comers know that if they are coming here they better learn fast or well fuck them off!

Ye that will definitely work.

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I'm nowhere near a big fan of Lookman, he frustrates the shit out of me, but how can he not be a better option to play than Walcott? You can't just say Lookman shouldn't play because he's not showing consistency, he's getting a minute here, a start there, not even getting in the squad the next week. Meanwhile, Wally seems to run in quicksand, messes up his first touch over and over (not his hair though), has lost the ability to go forward and does fuck all defensively (what a myth it is that he helps out) meaning Coleman looks even worse.

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20 hours ago, Shukes said:

Well of course not, he hasn’t played recently. Getting a minute here and there isn’t going to show anything. 

I havent looked to see how many minutes he has played but any player, young or old, needs to earn their spurs and as fans we can only judge them by what we see on the pitch.

20 hours ago, Shukes said:

Again, fans expect him to come in and win games singlehandedly. If he doesn’t, then he isn’t worth it.

Expectations can ruin players, unless you have progressive management .

 

I dont think anyone does think that do they? I dont get that impression from anyone. Personally I dont want to put too much pressure on him, because what will happen is that as soon as he does play crap from the start people will jump all over him. He needs time, he needs the team to be playing better for starter, and then he can come in, play 10-20-30 mins and then come in and start games where his qualities will be seen to best effect.

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