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Matt

Ademola Lookman

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People keep crying out for a number 10/challenge for Siggy. We have it in him; control, movement, wicked shot and work rate. I’ve been undecided on him for a long time because he’s supposedly a winger. He isn’t. He’s a central player. However, can’t see him getting a chance there and if the money is right, it’s best for us and him if he goes. 

We have it Bernard too but I really don’t want to break up his Digne link

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he's not strong enough to be a 10 matt.  he's tiny and weak, he's pushed off the ball so easily.  david silva is tiny but he plays to the left or right in a midfield or as a forward for similar reasons.  

 

a less physical league like germany or spain would suit him more.  

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8 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

he's not strong enough to be a 10 matt.  he's tiny and weak, he's pushed off the ball so easily.  david silva is tiny but he plays to the left or right in a midfield or as a forward for similar reasons.  

 

a less physical league like germany or spain would suit him more.  

Silva isn’t strong either, but he’s clever with his movements. Neither is Hazard or Mata, Messi or [insert name here]. Ossie, was a master of balance, movement and control. 

Im not saying he’s at their level, but that playing to his strengths would be beneficial to all concerned. Size is irrelevant if you’re clever and have good control. See Bernard. 

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4 minutes ago, Matt said:

Silva isn’t strong either, but he’s clever with his movements. Neither is Hazard or Mata, Messi or [insert name here]. Ossie, was a master of balance, movement and control. 

Im not saying he’s at their level, but that playing to his strengths would be beneficial to all concerned. Size is irrelevant if you’re clever and have good control. See Bernard. 

i agree, my point is he doesn't have balance and skill to get past them like those you mentioned do.  he holds onto the ball to long and then is shoved off it.  in germany he did better because it's a more technical game and less physical.

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1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

i agree, my point is he doesn't have balance and skill to get past them like those you mentioned do.  he holds onto the ball to long and then is shoved off it.  in germany he did better because it's a more technical game and less physical.

Disagree. German league is getting better because it incorporates both, and were not for money would’ve been a lot bigger because of it. But it’s still developing regardless. 

In my opinion, he does have the balance and skill (especially, we’ve seen it), to get past the best. His work need to be on position, and it’s hard to improve that if you’re told you’re a winger; he just isn’t. 

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1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

i agree, my point is he doesn't have balance and skill to get past them like those you mentioned do.  he holds onto the ball to long and then is shoved off it.  in germany he did better because it's a more technical game and less physical.

Lookman skips past players with ease. Think he is lost out side personally. Looks an instinctive, street style footballer and I’d like to see him in the middle. 

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1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

i agree, my point is he doesn't have balance and skill to get past them like those you mentioned do.  he holds onto the ball to long and then is shoved off it.  in germany he did better because it's a more technical game and less physical.

Plus he was mostly used against the poorer teams who are more comparable to the likes of Fulham. Personally think German football is struggling at the moment as the best teams in Germany tend to recruit from the teams below them in their own league whilst bleeding players abroad. 

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3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Plus he was mostly used against the poorer teams who are more comparable to the likes of Fulham. Personally think German football is struggling at the moment as the best teams in Germany tend to recruit from the teams below them in their own league whilst bleeding players abroad. 

agreed, dortmund and bayern are it and neither has been excellent since when they played in the CL final against each other almost a decade ago.  the finance is not there in that league.  davy klaassen walked into werder bremen and is a lynchpin major player for them after becoming a player not even on our bench!  

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On 07/03/2019 at 13:42, pete0 said:

Against Liverpool Walcott was part of the strategy. He was often the furthest forward in hope of getting on to a DCL knock on. 

Really don't see why people want Lookman to be starting especially against a top 6 side, his off ball is no where near this level. He's good on the ball but you'd be sacrificing an awful lot of space which would leave Coleman exposed. 

Someone’s hacked Pete’s account because that all makes perfect sense !

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I haven't seen enough from lookman in the time he has had to make me think he is a first team player in our current squad but the same could be said of DCL Walcott.In all honesty I need to see a lot more from Bernard as he didn't score or assist enough for me keeping in mind his pedigree. I think a striker and a right sided winger are priorities this season

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5 minutes ago, memmaclub2 said:

I haven't seen enough from lookman in the time he has had to make me think he is a first team player in our current squad but the same could be said of DCL Walcott.In all honesty I need to see a lot more from Bernard as he didn't score or assist enough for me keeping in mind his pedigree. I think a striker and a right sided winger are priorities this season

This is it really. We are judging Lookman on a fleeting moment of football, whereas the club are judging him on attitude and application.

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On 24/05/2019 at 07:44, Shukes said:

This is it really. We are judging Lookman on a fleeting moment of football, whereas the club are judging him on attitude and application.

As much as I want him to be good in an everton shirt he hasn't produced enough in the time he has been given. I think everyone is focuing on a loan spell in germany for there perception of his quality.

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22 hours ago, memmaclub2 said:

As much as I want him to be good in an everton shirt he hasn't produced enough in the time he has been given. I think everyone is focuing on a loan spell in germany for there perception of his quality.

But people have seen glimpses of what he's capable of, and those things only come consistently after a run of games which he hasn't had. He's got a very bright future either here or somewhere else. 

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7 hours ago, Aidan said:

But people have seen glimpses of what he's capable of, and those things only come consistently after a run of games which he hasn't had. He's got a very bright future either here or somewhere else. 

He showed some good ability and signs that we might have a diamond in rough in his 1sr season, with a goal in his 1st game and a few runs at defenders, and he has had opportunities to come on and stake a claim for the right wing spot but hasn’t shown he’s good enough, more because he can’t seem to play with in a structure with a defined role his game seems to be that of someone who wants a free role, but in Silva’s team you have to be prepared to work hard both ways and he is struggling to come to terms with that, that is why we see more of Walcott because he understands what is required, so for me he isn’t ready or good enough for this team imo. 

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3 hours ago, Palfy said:

He showed some good ability and signs that we might have a diamond in rough in his 1sr season, with a goal in his 1st game and a few runs at defenders, and he has had opportunities to come on and stake a claim for the right wing spot but hasn’t shown he’s good enough, more because he can’t seem to play with in a structure with a defined role his game seems to be that of someone who wants a free role, but in Silva’s team you have to be prepared to work hard both ways and he is struggling to come to terms with that, that is why we see more of Walcott because he understands what is required, so for me he isn’t ready or good enough for this team imo. 

Good insight, agree with what you're saying. Looks like he could leave this summer if Marco thinks the same.

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If you ever watch him for England it’s a different story. He plays with a few wing role and excels. Always looks dangerous and when he gets a chance, he usually at least tests his opponents.

Our problem is that we already have a carbon copy of him with Richarlison. We can’t afford to have two impact players in the team. Richarlison frustrates as he goes missing for periods and this is exactly what we see with Lookman. He came on for ten minuets at the end of the season and nearly scored a rocket, but in that ten minuets he only had about five touches of the ball.

This makes it very difficult to make an impact on the pitch. If a player made an impact in such little time each time he came on the pitch.... he would be on a top four clubs bench.

He will excel if he moves on, trust me. But it’s the best thing for him. As much as Barkley frustrated and pissed me off, he made the best decision of his career in leaving us.

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7 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

There's part of me that wouldn't be arsed in the slightest if we sold him. I find him very frustrating to watch. But then there's the other part of me that worries he'll give his head a wobble and be more than just potential.

I don't envy Marco and Marcel on this one.

Good point he could go somewhere and set the world on fire, but if Silva isn’t feeling it I think we take 20m and use on someone the manager wants. 

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7 hours ago, Matt said:

Not for the transfer setup, that’s between the clubs isn’t it? 

 

4 hours ago, StevO said:

All parties have to agree to the deal don’t they?

I believe we would have a transfer fee automatically accepted, then the player would have to agree terms.

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4 hours ago, StevO said:

All parties have to agree to the deal don’t they?

They have to agree to the move, but player and club (and agent) sort out the salary, clubs sort out the transfer deal. Don’t see why the player would get any say or even be interested in the transfer fee dealings 

11 minutes ago, Aidan said:

I believe we would have a transfer fee automatically accepted, then the player would have to agree terms.

Why would a transfer fee be automatically accepted in any scenario?

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29 minutes ago, Matt said:

They have to agree to the move, but player and club (and agent) sort out the salary, clubs sort out the transfer deal. Don’t see why the player would get any say or even be interested in the transfer fee dealings 

It may hinder future transfers for the player. I’d want a say if I was the player. 

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

It may hinder future transfers for the player. I’d want a say if I was the player. 

Honestly I’m just speculating, but I don’t see any logic in the player being involved 

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6 hours ago, Matt said:

They have to agree to the move, but player and club (and agent) sort out the salary, clubs sort out the transfer deal. Don’t see why the player would get any say or even be interested in the transfer fee dealings 

Why would a transfer fee be automatically accepted in any scenario?

Because its a buy back fee... So when the player is sold there is a clause for a bid of x amount to be automatically accepted if met, then negotiations start with the player for their personal contract. 

Are we on the same page here or am I confusing things 😂

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4 hours ago, Matt said:

Honestly I’m just speculating, but I don’t see any logic in the player being involved 

I get that when it’s to do with a transfer fee, but when it comes to clauses that can affect the future of a player I would think they have an interest. 

Look at Geri’s deal when we signed him, he might have wanted to stay at Everton but there was a contract in play that took that out of his hands. In that kind of scenario surely the player would have to agree to it? Sell on clauses could stand in the way of a player getting a move. I’m just speculating anyway.

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59 minutes ago, StevO said:

I get that when it’s to do with a transfer fee, but when it comes to clauses that can affect the future of a player I would think they have an interest. 

Look at Geri’s deal when we signed him, he might have wanted to stay at Everton but there was a contract in play that took that out of his hands. In that kind of scenario surely the player would have to agree to it? Sell on clauses could stand in the way of a player getting a move. I’m just speculating anyway.

It wasn’t taken out of his hands, he had final say on going back to Barca. 

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10 hours ago, Aidan said:

Because its a buy back fee... So when the player is sold there is a clause for a bid of x amount to be automatically accepted if met, then negotiations start with the player for their personal contract. 

Are we on the same page here or am I confusing things 😂

Buy back fee, like release clauses, just says the clubs have to talk to one another though, right? Not that it’s automatically accepted? 

@StevO, if we’re both speculating it’s probably best just to leave it be :) 

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7 hours ago, Matt said:

Buy back fee, like release clauses, just says the clubs have to talk to one another though, right? Not that it’s automatically accepted? 

@StevO, if we’re both speculating it’s probably best just to leave it be :) 

Thought there was a contractual obligation if there is a buy back fee, otherwise whats the point? Might be wrong though.

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40 minutes ago, Aidan said:

Thought there was a contractual obligation if there is a buy back fee, otherwise whats the point? Might be wrong though.

I’ve no idea on the ins and outs so I’m stopping now :) 

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Would like him to stick around to see how he develops as we could have a serious player on our hands - however I'd imagine with the finances this season and other areas needing to be strengthened then Mola could well be leaving.

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1 hour ago, Aidan said:

Would like him to stick around to see how he develops as we could have a serious player on our hands - however I'd imagine with the finances this season and other areas needing to be strengthened then Mola could well be leaving.

I disagree, I don't see anything in him that suggests anything but a decent career abroad/lower PL/Championship team; I think he's just slightly above Dan Gosling level. Time will tell. Oh, and I hope his injury isn't too bad, not seen any word on it so fingers crossed.

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Even if this year didnt go to plan then we would probably still get the same money in Jan/next summer. 

He impressed me more than I was expecting this time last year but he needs to play more games. Personally I think a season long loan with a recall clause would be the best option. 

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He has two years left on his deal. You think he will sign a new one? I’m doubtful of that unless he gets serious game time. If it’s him and Bernie for left wing and Charley and let’s say a Malcolm for the right that means Walcott would be the one to make way. Or does he want a left footed player for the actual left side?  I’d prefer to keep Lookman over Walcott all day. If we sold Walcott and McCarthy that might buy you Malcolm. Walcotts wages are massive aswell. 

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To put this into context, we signed Gomes for £22 million so selling Lookman for the above price means we've essentially acquired André for free. 

I really liked Ademola and had high hopes for him, especially after that goal against Manchester City but three managers have had a look at him and neither are willing to give him a run in the first team (remember that Brands will have had a big say in his Everton career too).

Whilst I do think that he can go on to be something special I trust the powers that be at Everton to make the right call. Since Brands and Silva started working together they have got a lot of things right so let's hope this is another wise move to fund other signings in areas we need to strengthen.

Let's not forget that Lookman hasn't had his heart set on Red Bull for a while either, it's a miracle he didn't depart last summer.

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He could turn out to be an outstanding player but we won’t miss what we don’t play, but in the future we could regret it but you can’t keep going what if. 

We don’t play him so it makes no sense to stand in his way, let him go to try and develop his career. 

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Think it had to happen for all parties - dont think we will miss him based on number of apps for us last season, weve doubled our money on him and we probably couldnt wait much longer for him to break into 1st team. Lookman also gets chance to kick start his career again.

 

Things starting to move up a gear for us now transferswise - would like to see an attacking replacement in next for us. We do seem to have to balance the wage book a bit - player out before the next player comes in...

 

Have trust in Brands

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1 hour ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

To put this into context, we signed Gomes for £22 million so selling Lookman for the above price means we've essentially acquired André for free. 

I really liked Ademola and had high hopes for him, especially after that goal against Manchester City but three managers have had a look at him and neither are willing to give him a run in the first team (remember that Brands will have had a big say in his Everton career too).

Whilst I do think that he can go on to be something special I trust the powers that be at Everton to make the right call. Since Brands and Silva started working together they have got a lot of things right so let's hope this is another wise move to fund other signings in areas we need to strengthen.

Let's not forget that Lookman hasn't had his heart set on Red Bull for a while either, it's a miracle he didn't depart last summer.

Think you’re being generous in your definition of managers...

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Really like Lookman as a player, but can see that something just isn’t sitting right. 

Ther must be some reason why he doesn’t get played. He doesn’t play here, so no point in keeping him on. Move him on and let his place go to another youngster so they have a chance of making something of theirselves.

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