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General Election

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28 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Heard a stat on the radio today that the richest eight people in the country combined have more wealth than the poorest thirteen million combined.

Shocking.

Trickle down economics... 

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6 hours ago, MikeO said:

Heard a stat on the radio today that the richest eight people in the country combined have more wealth than the poorest thirteen million combined.

Shocking.

You think that's bad?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/21/world-26-richest-people-own-as-much-as-poorest-50-per-cent-oxfam-report

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1 hour ago, Keith B said:

I'm American, but rooting for Corbyn. Don't take that as a smart or well considered take though. I don't understand UK politics very well.

I think that is very smart when you consider the other options   

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5 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

That’s mental, I wonder if they ever sit down and take time to consider that with just a small percentage of their wealth, they have the power to change life’s of most of the world’s poorest who live in utter poverty, and they personally wouldn’t know they had even done it. 
This is why we need to get rid of your Trumps and Boris’s of this world and replace them with leaders who have a social conscience. 

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4 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

It really is a matter of life and death.

Bookies reckon about 4/9 on a tory majority and 2/1 on no overall majority. Very tight and they've been wrong recently so we live in hope. Sort of.

I've resigned myself to a Johnson win psychologically because if I didn't the hope would destroy me. Anyway three votes contributed from us just now so it's down to the other forty-six odd million of you. Do the right thing.

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Only four candidates in my constituency to choose from the two ladies running the station said it was a very high turnout. 
This was the Ist time in my life I never voted labour I feel very disappointed with myself, but in 2017 election Labour only won 7% of the votes here, so I voted tactically for LibDems in the hope of trying to stop Brexit. 
We need to have proportional representation in this country so that know matter were you live you know your vote will count even if you’re surrounded by a load of pompous Tory twats. 

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8 minutes ago, Palfy said:

We need to have proportional representation in this country so that know matter were you live you know your vote will count even if you’re surrounded by a load of pompous Tory twats. 

No-brainer but it'll never happen because it'd involve Labour and tory MPs doing a "turkeys voting for Christmas" job. FPTP has worked for the two of them for a hundred years and there's no way they'll let that go. It stinks.

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4 minutes ago, MikeO said:

No-brainer but it'll never happen because it'd involve Labour and tory MPs doing a "turkeys voting for Christmas" job. FPTP has worked for the two of them for a hundred years and there's no way they'll let that go. It stinks.

Sadly you are right, so we shall just have to step in line I suppose. 

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Could never vote for Corbyn

I've still got the image of him at CND rallies wanting unilateral nuclear disarmament when I was in the army in Germany in the 1980's. 

Blokes a menace.

No fan of the Tories either - I spoiled my paper. 

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49 minutes ago, Latchford9 said:

Could never vote for Corbyn

I've still got the image of him at CND rallies wanting unilateral nuclear disarmament when I was in the army in Germany in the 1980's. 

Blokes a menace.

No fan of the Tories either - I spoiled my paper. 

I couldn't vote as I have been disenfranchised but I am very happy that Corbyn not only lost but appears to have ended his political career. For Labour to operate as a credible opposition now they need to rid themselves of Corbyn, Abbott, Mcdonnell and Thornberry.

The markets are loving the exit poll and the £ is rocketing in value.

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51 minutes ago, Latchford9 said:

I've still got the image of him at CND rallies wanting unilateral nuclear disarmament when I was in the army in Germany in the 1980's.

Because we've needed the weapons so many times in the last forty years haven't we? How many billions chucked down the toilet?

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13 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Because we've needed the weapons so many times in the last forty years haven't we? How many billions chucked down the toilet?

You obviously don't understand the very successful defence policy of NATO since WW2. The reason we have not had a war is because of our nuclear deterrent. No nuclear weapons = no deterrent = far higher risk of war. It really is that simple.

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13 minutes ago, RPG said:

I couldn't vote as I have been disenfranchised but I am very happy that Corbyn not only lost but appears to have ended his political career. For Labour to operate as a credible opposition now they need to rid themselves of Corbyn, Abbott, Mcdonnell and Thornberry.

The markets are loving the exit poll and the £ is rocketing in value.

You have not been disenfranchised at all, you decided to leave the country of your own free will some twenty odd years ago, which by doing so means you voluntarily gave up your right to a vote which would be the same for anyone who chose your course. 

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7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You have not been disenfranchised at all, you decided to leave the country of your own free will some twenty odd years ago, which by doing so means you voluntarily gave up your right to a vote which would be the same for anyone who chose your course. 

No Palfy my old mate you are quite wrong. For the first 15 years after I left UK I still had the vote. I was disenfranchised only after 15 years as an expat. Incidentally, the tory party are looking at reinstating full voting rights for UK expats without any time limit.

Pleased to see some certainty now in UK politics. I believe the same message is also coming out of Brussels. The last thing EU wanted was another hung Parliament.

Nice to see the markets reacting so positively already, too.

 

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2 minutes ago, RPG said:

You obviously don't understand the defence policy of NATO since WW2. The reason we have not had a war is because of our nuclear deterrent. No nuclear weapons = no deterrent = far higher risk of war. It really is that simple.

Korea, Falklands, Iraqi were they not wars that we were involved in, and you could say maybe the Panama Canal conflict. 

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4 minutes ago, RPG said:

No Palfy my old mate you are quite wrong. For the first 15 years after I left UK I still had the vote. I was disenfranchised only after 15 years as an expat. Incidentally, the tory party are looking at reinstating full voting rights for UK expats without any time limit.

Pleased to see some certainty now in UK politics. I believe the same message is also coming put of Brussels. The last thing EU wanted was another hung Parliament.

 

The law may have changed but that still doesn’t make you disenfranchised, you need to check what it means to be disenfranchised. 

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9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Korea, Falklands, Iraqi were they not wars that we were involved in, and you could say maybe the Panama Canal conflict. 

Indeed. But Korea did not have nuclear weapons. Falklands was classed as a conflict rather than a war. An exercise in semantics maybe but we still needed to project our power over 8000 miles to regain the Falklands. Iraq, similarly, is a non nuclear state.

The country missing from your list of course is Russia. And the reason it is missing is because we have nuclear weapons and it knows what would happen if ever it launched first. Ergo, nuclear deterrence works. Conventional skirmishes will always happen but you cannot 'uninvent' technology so there has to be nuclear parity. Various treaties have been signed to reduce the number of warheads each side has, which in turn reduces costs. But a deterrent really is necessary.

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3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

The law may have changed but that still doesn’t make you disenfranchised, you need to check what it means to be disenfranchised. 

Well, the letter I got from MP agreed that I had been disenfranchised. I'll take his view over yours on the matter I think.

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6 minutes ago, RPG said:

Indeed. But Korea did not have nuclear weapons. Falklands was classed as a conflict rather than a war. An exercise in semantics maybe but we still needed to project our power over 8000 miles to regain the Falklands. Iraq, similarly, is a non nuclear state.

The country missing from your list of course is Russia. And the reason it is missing is because we have nuclear weapons and it knows what would happen if ever it launched first. Ergo, nuclear deterrence works. Conventional skirmishes will always happen but you cannot 'uninvent' technology so thete has to be nuclear parity. Various treaties have been signed to reduce the number of warheads each side has, which in turn reduces costs. But a deterrent really is necessary.

Revisit your first comment which you clearly stated, that since WW2, we have not had a war because of our nuclear deterrent, wrong. 
Now I’m going to disenfranchise you and not discuss with you further. 

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49 minutes ago, Palfy said:

No don’t do that look at what disenfranchised means.

Thanks but no. I'll go with the MP's opinion. He is the guy who is championing the removal of the 'time limit prior to being disenfranchised.'

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46 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Revisit your first comment which you clearly stated, that since WW2, we have not had a war because of our nuclear deterrent, wrong. 
Now I’m going to disenfranchise you and not discuss with you further. 

We have avoided nuclear war. If you read all my posts you will also see that I stated conventional conflicts will always occur. Since we can't 'uninvent' nuclear weapons it becomes vital that we have nuclear parity. To do otherwise is foolhardy.

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19 minutes ago, RPG said:

We have avoided nuclear war. If you read all my posts you will also see that I stated conventional conflicts will always occur. Since we can't 'uninvent' nuclear weapons it becomes vital that we have nuclear parity. To do otherwise is foolhardy.

Yes you did when you started back tracking on your first post, which was shown to be in factual, that’s why so many don’t like debating with you on here, you can never admit when you’re wrong, you would rather lie or try and move the goalposts. 
Honestly you’re such a fucking dick mate it’s embarrassing to watch you squirm your way around to try and prove you are never wrong. 

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21 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Yes you did when you started back tracking on your first post, which was shown to be in factual, that’s why so many don’t like debating with you on here, you can never admit when you’re wrong, you would rather lie or try and move the goalposts. 
Honestly you’re such a fucking dick mate it’s embarrassing to watch you squirm your way around to try and prove you are never wrong. 

You been on the Rioja again Palfy or just struggling to contain your disappointment at the way the election is going.

Either way, you are letting yourself down again, badly. I hope the election result and subsequent consequences of brexit don't adversely affect you, but your foul language when you don't get your own way really does expose your character flaws.

I neither squirm nor lie Palfy. But it is entertaining to see you throwing your toys out of your pram - again!

Cheers.

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Labour missed an open goal and its all on Corbyn. With almost anyone else in charge we would have seen a very different result.

Lib Dems were hurt by tactical voting and some very large tactical errors. If they had campaigned on a second referendum instead of revoking A50 they probably would have done a lot better.

i cant believe that voters think Boris is the answer. Tories lied in 88% of their online ads. You have shit in your own bed and now you will have to lie in it. 
 

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7 hours ago, Peter H said:

Labour missed an open goal and its all on Corbyn. With almost anyone else in charge we would have seen a very different result.

Lib Dems were hurt by tactical voting and some very large tactical errors. If they had campaigned on a second referendum instead of revoking A50 they probably would have done a lot better.

i cant believe that voters think Boris is the answer. Tories lied in 88% of their online ads. You have shit in your own bed and now you will have to lie in it. 
 

I do agree but the open goal was in 2017 GE when May was PM. For all Johnson's failings, he has far more charisma than May and is a far better campaigner. It is looking like a 74 to 78 Conservative working majority which means Boris will now be able to get just about anything he wants through Parliament.

Pleased to see that Corbyn has said he won't lead the Party into the next election as the country needs a credible opposition which means he, along with Abbott, Mcdonnell and probably Thornberry all have to step down.

The only battle now is not Brexit but Scottish independence as SNP did do very well too - mainly at Labour expense too.

N Ireland could also be interesting with DUP losing seats to SF - who won't take up their seats, thereby further extending the working majority.

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11 hours ago, MikeO said:

Ah fuck.

Was always going to happen, this was basically just the Brexit referendum mark 2 but with parties involved. The general population couldn’t be trusted the first time around but when it came to the GE, their frustration and blind ignorance over Brexit overcame party loyalty or long term vision. GB wants a dictator, it’s going to get one and it all started with the fucking referendum. This is as much on leave voters as it is conservative voters. 

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I am glad that the Lib Dem’s failed miserably in their attempt to buy a vote, and that the SNP did well enough that it might get its indyref2 - didn’t agree with the first one but having seeing what it’s like when a foreign government “leading” a union is actually dictating for the other countries, I’d want to leave too. 
 

DUP another that’s suffered from dealing with the devil too it seems. 

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24 minutes ago, johnh said:

Assuming Brexit now happens, Remainer's do have a major consolation.  At least they now know that 'democracy' has prevailed.  We came very close to destroying it.

Good to see you back, John, even if I completely disagree with the post 

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I think it will be interesting to see if Johnson really does stay hard right, in the court of the ERG. He has assembled a Caligari-esque cabinet of dysfunctional, frightening people, but it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't steer a more median line now he has such a big majority. Not sure why Labour didn't see this coming. Corbyn was the liability from the outset. Nice to see he wants to stay on to oversee another Momentum candidate taking charge, rather than doing the decent thing and resigning now. 

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10 hours ago, RPG said:

You obviously don't understand the very successful defence policy of NATO since WW2. The reason we have not had a war is because of our nuclear deterrent. No nuclear weapons = no deterrent = far higher risk of war. It really is that simple.

You never said that the evidence is there for all to see, and then after it was pointed out to you that there has been wars after WW2 involving people with nuclear weapons and how could I forget Vietnam, so they obviously didn’t prove a deterrent to the countries involved, you can’t except you were wrong, you add another post saying I said this after the first post, I’m surprised you never reverted back to type and changed it, by using your last excuse of I always recheck my posts for spelling errors, what an appalling liar you are, on top of a far right facist pompous bigot, and now as shown in your last posts as an egotistical hypocrite. 
And on your point of the election, yes I am disappointed but not for myself but for my children and grandchildren, but I’m so ecstatic you had nothing to do with it, because you would be gloating, oh you already have how childish and you’re not even a voter. 

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24 minutes ago, Formby said:

I think it will be interesting to see if Johnson really does stay hard right, in the court of the ERG. He has assembled a Caligari-esque cabinet of dysfunctional, frightening people, but it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't steer a more median line now he has such a big majority. Not sure why Labour didn't see this coming. Corbyn was the liability from the outset. Nice to see he wants to stay on to oversee another Momentum candidate taking charge, rather than doing the decent thing and resigning now. 

Labour should have got David Milliband to lead, Corbyn too far left and had too many people who don't like Johnson or the Tories voting for them anyway!!! A bad situation. Corbyn needed to really understand the need to be pragmatic... he would be PM if he did. 

A bit like Everton under Martinez.... pretty passing is all and well  it not essential in our own penalty area. 

 

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1 hour ago, johnh said:

Assuming Brexit now happens, Remainer's do have a major consolation.  At least they now know that 'democracy' has prevailed.  We came very close to destroying it.

Conservatives got 358 on 43.6% of the vote. Labour and Lib Dems got 214 on 43.8% of the vote.

Labour + LibDem + SNP + Greens + Plaid Cymru + Sinn Fein + SDLP + Alliance = 52,2% of the vote.  A majority of people voted for parties which opposed the Brexit deal and were pledging to put it back to the people in a second referendum.

etc.  etc. 😉

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7 minutes ago, holystove said:

Conservatives got 358 on 43.6% of the vote. Labour and Lib Dems got 214 on 43.8% of the vote.

Labour + LibDem + SNP + Greens + Plaid Cymru + Sinn Fein + SDLP + Alliance = 52,2% of the vote.  A majority of people voted for parties which opposed the Brexit deal and were pledging to put it back to the people in a second referendum.

etc.  etc. 😉

True, but this time the democratic process was actually followed, even if it was mutated because of the key issue. 

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

You never said that the evidence is there for all to see, and then after it was pointed out to you that there has been wars after WW2 involving people with nuclear weapons and how could I forget Vietnam, so they obviously didn’t prove a deterrent to the countries involved, you can’t except you were wrong, you add another post saying I said this after the first post, I’m surprised you never reverted back to type and changed it, by using your last excuse of I always recheck my posts for spelling errors, what an appalling liar you are, on top of a far right facist pompous bigot, and now as shown in your last posts as an egotistical hypocrite. 
And on your point of the election, yes I am disappointed but not for myself but for my children and grandchildren, but I’m so ecstatic you had nothing to do with it, because you would be gloating, oh you already have how childish and you’re not even a voter. 

You do talk a load of tosh Palfy. I think you are used to getting your own way and don't like it when you can't impose your will and your views on others. Hard luck pal, it ain't ever going to happen with me. It is most entertaining though.

I bet you were the kid at school that owned the football, insisted on being both captain and referee and picked both teams in an attempt to stack the deck in your favour. You were, weren't you Palfy!

Anyway, that's me done for today. This champagne hangover means it will be a quiet day in front of the tv with take away food, berocca, vitamin tablets and a couple of panadol for me.

This post also edited pal, just to tell you that I am disenfranchising you from further debate on the matter with me for a while.

I hope you enjoyed the Rijoca - but go easy on it pal.

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2 minutes ago, RPG said:

You do talk a load of tosh Palfy. I think you are used to getting your own way and don't like it when you can't impose your will and your views on others. Hard luck pal, it ain't ever going to happen with me. It is most entertaining though.

I bet you were the kid at school that owned the football, insisted on being both captain and referee and picked both teams in an attempt to stack the deck in your favour. You were, weren't you Palfy!

Anyway, that's me done for today. This champagne hangover means it will be a quiet day in front of the tv with take away food, berocca vitamin tablets and a couple of panadol for me.

I hope you enjoyed the Rijoca - but go easy on it pal.

Try arsenic fascist it will be more to your taste. 

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13 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Thank you to all the selfish cunts that have fucked the country and will be responsible for more death and misery. 

But they’ll be fine so they won’t be arsed.

Can I ask how you justify that statement when, by far, the vast majority of new votes for the Conservative Party in GE19 have come from working class constituencies who have previously nearly always voted Labour? Workington, Bolsover, Blyth, and many more.

It is the working class that won this election for the Conservative Party.

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3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Try arsenic fascist it will be more to your taste. 

You really do open your mouth and put both feet firmly in it almost every time don't you pal. I think another glass of champagne is in order after that last comment.

Cheers.

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8 minutes ago, Matt said:

True, but this time the democratic process was actually followed, even if it was mutated because of the key issue. 

Yes the conservatives won a clear majority within the system, not disputing that.  I was just having a dig at John who always rails against the undemocratic nature of the EU. 

 

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1 hour ago, johnh said:

Assuming Brexit now happens, Remainer's do have a major consolation.  At least they now know that 'democracy' has prevailed.  We came very close to destroying it.

It did indeed, well at least our version of it.

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

True, but this time the democratic process was actually followed, even if it was mutated because of the key issue. 

It's the FPTP system that's all wrong. The Tories increased their share of the vote by 1.2% and got an extra 47 (7.2%) MPs , the LibDems increased their vote share by  4.2% and lost one.

LibDems got 11.5% of the vote and 1.7% of MPs. This means that the Tories got an MP for every 38,000 votes and the LibDems an MP for every 332,500 votes. Just plain wrong but it's not going to change. It was the outcome I expected, feared and forecast all along unfortunately and not quite what someone who shall remain nameless confidently predicted...

"Labour will certainly lose a lot of seats (as many as 90) in the north to the brexit party as Labour 'Remain' MPs representing solid 'Leave' constituencies are booted out. I think Labour will also lose some seats to the Lib Dems in the south, meaning that Labour could finish third or even fourth behind Conservative, Lib Dems and Brexit Party."

:doh:

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2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

It did indeed, well at least our version of it.

It's the FPTP system that's all wrong. The Tories increased their share of the vote by 1.2% and got an extra 47 (7.2%) MPs , the LibDems increased their vote share by  4.2% and lost one.

LibDems got 11.5% of the vote and 1.7% of MPs. This means that the Tories got an MP for every 38,000 votes and the LibDems an MP for every 332,500 votes. Just plain wrong but it's not going to change. It was the outcome I expected, feared and forecast all along unfortunately and not quite what someone who shall remain nameless confidently predicted...

"Labour will certainly lose a lot of seats (as many as 90) in the north to the brexit party as Labour 'Remain' MPs representing solid 'Leave' constituencies are booted out. I think Labour will also lose some seats to the Lib Dems in the south, meaning that Labour could finish third or even fourth behind Conservative, Lib Dems and Brexit Party."

:doh:

True, but it’s the actual democratic system, as fucked up as it actually is. 

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

MAD innit 

Indeed. But we moved on from 'Tripwire' through 'MAD' to 'Graduated Response' over the years as the threats and our capability to respond to them have evolved. But, throughout the evolution of the threats, it has been our independent nuclear deterrent and our NATO membership that has ensured our security from nuclear attack.

 

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