European elections 2017

[holystove]

A lot of important elections this year in Europe.

 

Netherlands : 15th March

France : 23rd April and 7th May

UK: 8th June (separate thread)

Germany: 24th September

 

France up next. 4 people still in it. Melenchon (eurosceptic - far left) = Bernie Sanders / Corbyn ; LePen (anti-EU - far right) = Trump / Farage ; Fillon (moderate eurosceptic - centre right) = Paul Ryan ; Macron (europhile - center) = Hillary / Farron

 

Two leading candidates will go head-to-head in second round. Polls: Macron: 23%; LePen: 22%; Fillon: 20%; Melenchon: 19%

Head to head polling: Macron beats everyone, LePen loses to everyone, Melenchon beats Fillon.

 

 

[holystove]

Oliver on France

 

[markjazzbassist]

thanks! some interesting stuff to digest

[Matt]

Didn't realise he was a kopite

[Chach]

Voila

 

[holystove]

Last day of polling in France. Macron 24% Le Pen 21.5% Fillon 20% Mélenchon 19.5%

 

Seems to me in almost every first world country the nationalists/populists/fascists get between 10-30% of the vote. It's just strange that in some electoral systems that is enough to get you elected.

 

Trump got 25% = president. Wilders 15% = powerless. LePen 21% = set to loose against every candidate in second round (if she makes second round).

 

Quite a good argument for mandatory voting and proportionate representation with coalition governments.

[Bailey]

That's interesting. I wonder what the result would be for mandatory voting over here. Do you get an option to abstain?

[markjazzbassist]

french voting starts today.

[MikeO]

That's interesting. I wonder what the result would be for mandatory voting over here. Do you get an option to abstain?

 

I think "none of the above" would have to be an option.

[Chach]

That's interesting. I wonder what the result would be for mandatory voting over here. Do you get an option to abstain?

 

Technically where it exists, its not mandatory to vote you just have to show up and get marked off the roll. You can write whatever you like on the ballot and people often do and they get counted as informal.

[MikeO]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39686993

[holystove]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39686993

 

Macron's party was founded less than one year ago. He campaigned with a positive project for France (no fear, open society) and wants France to be a constructive member state in a strong EU. He was also the only candidate who was critical of Putin.

Now he won the first round, and is set to win the second round by over 25%.

 

The evident disappointment from UK right-wing tabloids and the eurosceptics is both kind of nauseating and oddly soothing. Regardless of what the Daily Mail and others put on their front page today, the reality is that even though the setting was perfect for LePen (a terrorist attack days before the election and the persistent terrorist threat in France, the victories of Trump and Brexit, ..) she went from 28% (last regional elections) to 22% this election.

 

As a side note, that's two EU elections in a row now where the openly pro-supranational cooperation parties have won big. Maybe if Cameron had run a "pro-EU" campaign instead of an "anti-not-in-EU" campaign, the result might have been different.

 

Well done, France.

[johnh]

Eh, Cameron did run a pro-EU campaign.

[holystove]

I thought Cameron took the project-fear approach? "The only thing worse than being in the EU is not being in the EU" etc. Even though he campaigned for Remain, I wouldn't call such an approach pro-EU.

[johnh]

I thought Cameron took the project-fear approach? "The only thing worse than being in the EU is not being in the EU" etc. Even though he campaigned for Remain, I wouldn't call such an approach pro-EU.

 

 

 

Prior to the referendum, Cameron visited Brussels to discuss changes to the relationship between Britain and the EU. He had a nice dinner, slapped the EU elite on their backs, received slaps in return and achieved the square root of sod all. He was both a Remainer and a Europhile.

[johnh]

Marine Le Pen has resigned as leader of her party.

[markjazzbassist]

Marine Le Pen has resigned as leader of her party.

 

symbolic act trying to win voters of other parties by disassociating with that party.

[holystove]

hrtbps‏ @hrtbps 11 u11 uur geleden

Meer

Le Pen quitting FN like Clark Kent taking off his glasses, as if we're meant to go "hey where did the fascist go? I no longer see a fascist"

[johnh]

In actual fact she 'stepped down'. I got 'resigned' from the BBC on-line - should have known that, with a choice of words, which one the BBC would choose.

 

Hope she loses by the way.

[johnh]

Just going back to the Cameron 'Europhile' issue. For a politician, Cameron was both naive and stupid. When he called the referendum he should have made it clear that he was abstaining and not supporting either leave or remain, but would ensure that the result would be implemented to the best of his ability. If he had done this, he would still be PM. The fact that he was willing to risk his position to back remain (albeit that he was confident of victory) clearly displays his europhile tendencies.

Edited April 25, 2017 by johnh

[Matt]

Just going back to the Cameron 'Europhile' issue. For a politician, Cameron was both naive and stupid. When he called the referendum he should have made it clear that he was abstaining and not supporting either leave or remain, but would ensure that the result would be implemented to the best of his ability. If he had done this, he would still be PM. The fact that he was willing to risk his position to back remain (albeit that he was confident of victory) clearly displays his europhile tendencies.

I think it shows more that Cameron was both naive, stupid and immensely arrogant.

[holystove]

French voters in the UK. (total 43.551)

 

Macron: 51,40%

Fillon: 24,79%

Melenchon: 11,33%

Hamon: 6,68%

LePen: 2,81%

[rubecula]

Bob the Builder says "Can we Frexit? ... "

[EFC-Paul]

Ex banker acolyte of Hollande with little to no government experience, Macron will be bad news down the line for the French he's Hollande mk2 who's been one of their most unfavourable leaders ever

[MikeO]

In actual fact she 'stepped down'. I got 'resigned' from the BBC on-line - should have known that, with a choice of words, which one the BBC would choose.

 

Hope she loses by the way.

 

What's the difference ?

 

If you look "resign" up in a thesaurus one of of the synonyms is "step down". I think your anti BBC paranoia is clouding your logic John .

[johnh]

 

What's the difference ?

 

If you look "resign" up in a thesaurus one of of the synonyms is "step down". I think your anti BBC paranoia is clouding your logic John .

 

To 'step down' is generally accepted as 'temporary'. To 'resign' is generally accepted to be permanent.

 

Also, 'paranoia' is delusional and the fact that the government, most of the written media (not the Guardian) and a good chunk of the population, share my view, I don't think paranoia is the right term.

Edited April 25, 2017 by johnh

[MikeO]

 

To 'step down' is generally accepted as 'temporary'. To 'resign' is generally accepted to be permanent.

 

step down

phrasal verb of step

1. 1.

   withdraw or resign from an important position or office.

   "he stepped down as party leader"

   synonyms: resign, stand down, give up one's post/job, bow out;

   retire, abdicate;

   informalquit, call it a day

[MikeO]

 

To 'step down' is generally accepted as 'temporary'. To 'resign' is generally accepted to be permanent.

 

Also, 'paranoia' is delusional and the fact that the government, most of the written media (not the Guardian) and a good chunk of the population, share my view, I don't think paranoia is the right term.

 

That's because a good chunk of the population currently is right wing and don't like anyone questioning their viewpoint, even if it be in a non-partisan way. The BBC is not left wing, the suggestion is pure fantasy put forward by people who don't like their opinions challenged; if the country was predominantly left wing the majority would accuse the beeb of being right wing because they wouldn't want their opinions challenged.

 

The BBC is probably the one and only news outlet in the country that comes from a totally neutral perspective, it's probably one of the few in the World; we should be immensely proud of it. My car radio is always on 5live and (when they're talking politics) I spend just as much time shouting at it as I do applauding it.

[rubecula]

anyone thinking the EU is (if not falling apart) beginning to shake a wee bit?

[markjazzbassist]

anyone thinking the EU is (if not falling apart) beginning to shake a wee bit?

 

dutch elections went without a hitch, macron is a EU supporter, other than the uk (which could lose scotland to the EU) where is the worry?