Should we sack our manager?

[johnh]

1 hour ago, Bluemineck said:

Lower than 58, older than Koeman! 

Just  a young lad then.

[Hafnia]

32 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Of course people are entitled to be right or wrong... hold your hands up when you’re wrong and be HUMBLE when you’re right.

you that you think it's about being right or wrong?

Nothing to do with that - more just bemusement at the fact that it seems calling for his head a few games ago was ridiculous and now it's ok....

It's like a dog owner acting all surprised when his dog has gone and bitten the postman despite spending half the previous snapping and snarling at everything that moves. 

This has been coming.... we could play against the best team in history and yeah I would be expecting to lose but I would also expect our manager to be able to  demonstrate that he has an idea of how he is needed to set his team up to play against them.... how we can threaten them if they attack with freedom how we are meant to make them think about what we have.

He has sent us out game after game with formations that do not work, players in wrong roles,  that bloody 3rd rate right back.... davies and dcl sat on the bench.

 

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, c1982 said:

Of course people are entitled to be right or wrong... hold your hands up when you’re wrong and be HUMBLE when you’re right.

Haha well that shut me up.

[rubecula]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

You've snuck in at eight months older than me Palfy mate so I know there are at least three more senile than I am'

[London Blue]

I was at the game today is one of my all to rare visits back to Goodison. The atmosphere was nervous from the start, but picked up over the first 15 minutes when we played well. We created chances, looked threatening and should have been 2 - 0 up. To that extent we were unlucky. If we had scored then we would have won by a lot, but we did not, and lost, such is the fickle nature football.

Then we got caught on the counter, conceded a goal and never looked like equalizing, let alone taking the lead. We were slow and unsure in possession and reverted to the "Martinez Shuffle" passing it in front of Burnley's team. Players bunched together, didn't stretch the opposition, and to be honest the Burnley keeper could have taken the second half off.

I went into the match a Koeman supporter, wanting to give him time, till Christmas at least to turn it around, I left very unsure. Half of me thinks we are just a couple of players clicking to turn it around and kick on. 

The other half sees a team that is devoid and confidence when things don't go well. We look so brittle, Schneiderlin was looking for people to pass to and there was almost no movement in front of him, so we passed back or to the side. We had Vlasic on the pitch who looks like a player that can open up defenses, but after we went behind we hardly used him. 

Koeman played Schneiderlin and Gana together again, which is pointless as they both end up occupying the same space, trying to do the same thing. Schneiderlin forces Gana further forward, and into becoming a more creative player which he clearly is not. He should have played Davies or Siggy there. Koeman knows this as he changes it at half time every match - so why repeat the same fucking mistake at the start of every match?

Coco, seriously is so shit I should play right back, and I am awful.

Williams, despite me saying he is a 7/10 player, so far this season (bar a couple of games) has been a 5/10 player. There was a point halfway through the second half where he passed the ball (and I use the word pass in the loosest possible sense)  straight out for a goal kick, and he put his head in his shirt and it never came out. He has no confidence.

In Pickford, Kenny, Holgate and Keane we have 4 players who are going to be the core of our defense for years to come, so why not play them now as we have no better alternatives, and every game they will get better.

I don't blame him for Klasseen for Sandro and I still believe they will come good once they have adapted to the premier league. I think Siggy looks very good when played behind the striker where his clever passes and runs are effective. His movement off the ball is very good. 

I do blame him for not playing Lookman and / or Vlasic to give us the width we have been crying out for, we look so much more dangerous when we have pace and width to stretch defenses.

As it stands I give Koeman 3 more games to turn it around, if he can't then he has to go. If we wait till Christmas and it has not been turned around then our season will effectively be over. Sorry to say but I think the players are starting to lose faith in him and so maybe is Moshiri.......

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, London Blue said:

I was at the game today is one of my all to rare visits back to Goodison. The atmosphere was nervous from the start, but picked up over the first 15 minutes when we played well. We created chances, looked threatening and should have been 2 - 0 up. To that extent we were unlucky. If we had scored then we would have won by a lot, but we did not, and lost, such is the fickle nature football.

Then we got caught on the counter, conceded a goal and never looked like equalizing, let alone taking the lead. We were slow and unsure in possession and reverted to the "Martinez Shuffle" passing it in front of Burnley's team. Players bunched together, didn't stretch the opposition, and to be honest the Burnley keeper could have taken the second half off.

I went into the match a Koeman supporter, wanting to give him time, till Christmas at least to turn it around, I left very unsure. Half of me thinks we are just a couple of players clicking to turn it around and kick on. 

The other half sees a team that is devoid and confidence when things don't go well. We look so brittle, Schneiderlin was looking for people to pass to and there was almost no movement in front of him, so we passed back or to the side. We had Vlasic on the pitch who looks like a player that can open up defenses, but after we went behind we hardly used him. 

Koeman played Schneiderlin and Gana together again, which is pointless as they both end up occupying the same space, trying to do the same thing. Schneiderlin forces Gana further forward, and into becoming a more creative player which he clearly is not. He should have played Davies or Siggy there. Koeman knows this as he changes it at half time every match - so why repeat the same fucking mistake at the start of every match?

Coco, seriously is so shit I should play right back, and I am awful.

Williams, despite me saying he is a 7/10 player, so far this season (bar a couple of games) has been a 5/10 player. There was a point halfway through the second half where he passed the ball (and I use the word pass in the loosest possible sense)  straight out for a goal kick, and he put his head in his shirt and it never came out. He has no confidence.

In Pickford, Kenny, Holgate and Keane we have 4 players who are going to be the core of our defense for years to come, so why not play them now as we have no better alternatives, and every game they will get better.

I don't blame him for Klasseen for Sandro and I still believe they will come good once they have adapted to the premier league. I think Siggy looks very good when played behind the striker where his clever passes and runs are effective. His movement off the ball is very good. 

I do blame him for not playing Lookman and / or Vlasic to give us the width we have been crying out for, we look so much more dangerous when we have pace and width to stretch defenses.

As it stands I give Koeman 3 more games to turn it around, if he can't then he has to go. If we wait till Christmas and it has not been turned around then our season will effectively be over. Sorry to say but I think the players are starting to lose faith in him and so maybe is Moshiri.......

Coco is always made as a scape goat. Our fans need to seriously take a fucking look in the mirror at themselves and seriously think about supporting another team.

At this moment in time we have worse fans than Real Madrid. It sounds like a swimming sports centre from start to finish in that ground.

Fans have their favourites which really pisses me off. There was three different occasions today were our DM's passed back today and the fans raged... Baines then done straight after and I heard fuck all. 

Coco gives our team more balance and gives more than John jo Kenny. No matter how good I think the lad will be, Coco at this point goes us more.

[London Blue]

4 minutes ago, yamar said:

Coco is always made as a scape goat. Our fans need to seriously take a fucking look in the mirror at themselves and seriously think about supporting another team.

At this moment in time we have worse fans than Real Madrid. It sounds like a swimming sports centre from start to finish in that ground.

Fans have their favourites which really pisses me off. There was three different occasions today were our DM's passed back today and the fans raged... Baines then done straight after and I heard fuck all. 

Coco gives our team more balance and gives more than John jo Kenny. No matter how good I think the lad will be, Coco at this point goes us more.

Ok, I have looked in the mirror, and Coco is still shit. He does not know what defensive positions to take up, he played a part in the Burnley goal, and for the rest of the match he galloped ahead and delivered 2 good cross's, and 90 minutes of defensive uncertainty boarding on panic.

You take a look at the videos of our games and tell me that coco is better than Kenny.

The only balance coco give us off, which co-incidentally is where he should fuck to.

[Gwlad]

Whilst it comes down to the players on the pitch, I just don't think they have confidence in RK's tactics.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Ok, I have looked in the mirror, and Coco is still shit. He does not know what defensive positions to take up, he played a part in the Burnley goal, and for the rest of the match he galloped ahead and delivered 2 good cross's, and 90 minutes of defensive uncertainty boarding on panic.

You take a look at the videos of our games and tell me that coco is better than Kenny.

The only balance coco give us off, which co-incidentally is where he should fuck to.

I didn't mean you, it was a generalisation of all our "supporters". Coco was not at fault for the goal.the young lad gets caught ball watching and Morgan gets school boy'd with a dummy.

[London Blue]

Just now, yamar said:

I didn't mean you, it was a generalisation of all our "supporters". Coco was not at fault for the goal.the young lad gets caught ball watching and Morgan gets school boy'd with a dummy.

Coco was partly to blame as he was not there to stop the the attack which came from his side.

Kenny is learning, and will be a better player than coco so why not give him the games he needs.

Schneiderlin has been shit, but I partly blame Koeman for not having the right side so there are few options for him to pas to.

[Bailey]

I thought Coco did ok compared to his normal games but it was so evident that when we weren't set in our defensive shape that he didn't have a fucking clue what time do or where to go. He was running around looking at every one waiting for someone to tell him what to do. You guys that go to the math must be sat with your mouths wide open because I can only see part of it on TV. 

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

I thought Coco did ok compared to his normal games but it was so evident that when we weren't set in our defensive shape that he didn't have a fucking clue what time do or where to go. He was running around looking at every one waiting for someone to tell him what to do. You guys that go to the math must be sat with your mouths wide open because I can only see part of it on TV. 

I thought he was on the ball today and the only defender who deserves his wages. Keane and Williams both looked terrified of Wood who is your stereotypical old school, league one, route one forward. Baines really struggled with his positioning, and done bugger all going forward, luckily they targeted Cuco otherwise it could have been much worse. 

[Chach]

4 hours ago, yamar said:

Coco is always made as a scape goat. Our fans need to seriously take a fucking look in the mirror at themselves and seriously think about supporting another team.

At this moment in time we have worse fans than Real Madrid. It sounds like a swimming sports centre from start to finish in that ground.

Fans have their favourites which really pisses me off. There was three different occasions today were our DM's passed back today and the fans raged... Baines then done straight after and I heard fuck all. 

Coco gives our team more balance and gives more than John jo Kenny. No matter how good I think the lad will be, Coco at this point goes us more.

I don't think this post of yours (or mine) will be particularly popular because the general consensus seems to be the fans can do no wrong and I can't comment specifically as I live in Australia and watch the game on TV but when I hear booing at half time or at the end of the game I can't help but think that the conditional nature of the support is not helping at all.

Before anyone starts with the "but they are professional football players on eleventy million squid per week" yes they are but at the end of the day they just footballers which does not automatically  mean they have superhuman levels of emotional intelligence, negativity is toxic.

 

[Shukes]

5 hours ago, pete0 said:

I thought he was on the ball today and the only defender who deserves his wages. Keane and Williams both looked terrified of Wood who is your stereotypical old school, league one, route one forward. Baines really struggled with his positioning, and done bugger all going forward, luckily they targeted Cuco otherwise it could have been much worse. 

I watch him quite closely to try to understand the hatred to him. I honestly can't see what's wrong with him? He had a pretty solid game in what was a dire team performance. Just seems like an average solid defender to me.

[nogs]

31 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I watch him quite closely to try to understand the hatred to him. I honestly can't see what's wrong with him? He had a pretty solid game in what was a dire team performance. Just seems like an average solid defender to me.

I don't agree in singling out players when the whole team is underperforming so badly. But for me Martinez is nowhere near the quality a team aiming for the top 4 should be bringing in. I must have counted three occasions in the second half yesterday when his crosses tamely found the nearest Burnley head, it was really poor. And when you are playing a system where your full backs give you your only width, that's a big problem. Ok, you could say it's not his fault that he's being asked to do something he isn't good at, like Gana being asked to push forward. But it stands out.

I also think he was an unnecessary signing. We all know Coleman is our number 1 right back, so it's a case of filling in until he comes back. Holgate did an excellent job there last season, why not continue giving him first team experience? Kenny has looked promising, and I never thought Ty Browning did much wrong when he played there, now he's out on loan at Sunderland. So to me Martinez is just blocking the development of three young defenders who we could have had competing for the right back spot while Coleman is out. He's never, ever going to be our number 1 right back, and he isn't even doing that great a job as cover.

 

[Shukes]

I agree he isn't close to a top four. Also agree he should have continued with Holgate there.

i just don't think he is the reason we are doing so badly. And I don't agree that he is a bad championship player like many have said.

hes a stop gap for us, and he is doing his job.

[London Blue]

Coco is part of the problem we are playing poorly. I understand Koeman's thinking in that Burnley will sit back so play Coco as he will get forward allot. His crossing is for the most part good, but so is Kennys, he is the future so why not play him instead.

His defensive positioning is so poor, he left us exposed two or three time yesterday, and its no surprise that Burnley's goal came from that side. He just does not know what positions to take up, he flaps around like a lose tent flap in a storm. Kenny is so much better, will only get better with experience.

Keane was solid, dealt with the limited threat well and brought the ball out to try to get us going,

Williams has no confidence at the moment, he is making schoolboy errors and needs dropping, he just does not want to be out there and it shows.

Baines got forward allot, tries hard to create and the only worrying sign for me was that age is appearing to catch up with him as he lost a couple of races and relied on his experience and skill to get him out of trouble.

Coco is not the sole reason this team is playing poorly, his selection is however a symptom of a manager who is running out of ideas and confidence.

 

[Bailey]

Baines was the only defender that I thought did well. All our problems came down Cucos side, which is telling.

[Romey 1878]

I watch Martina and honestly it's like watching an inexperienced kid out there. He wanders all over the place and I'm often left wondering where the fuck he is! And he's still drifting into where the CB's are to follow an opposition player, and leaves his wide man in acres of space, even though that CB has already got the man. His crossing has been his saving grace but even that seems to be getting worse by the game.

Like I've said before though, it's not really his lack of ability that really gets to me, it's the lack of effort he'll show 90% of the time. Sure, you'll get the odd time when he busts a gut to get to the man he left all on his own but, more often than not, he'll just jog over like it doesn't matter and the man either waltzes past him like he's not even there or will get to put a cross in as he puts a token leg up in the air to block it.  

He's not our only, or biggest problem, but he really is a nightmare of a player. 3 year contract? Jesus Christ.

[Paddock]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I watch Martina and honestly it's like watching an inexperienced kid out there. He wanders all over the place and I'm often left wondering where the fuck he is! And he's still drifting into where the CB's are to follow an opposition player, and leaves his wide man in acres of space, even though that CB has already got the man. His crossing has been his saving grace but even that seems to be getting worse by the game.

Like I've said before though, it's not really his lack of ability that really gets to me, it's the lack of effort he'll show 90% of the time. Sure, you'll get the odd time when he busts a gut to get to the man he left all on his own but, more often than not, he'll just jog over like it doesn't matter and the man either waltz past him like he's not even there or will get to put a cross in as he puts a token leg up in the air to block it.  

He's not our only, or biggest problem, but he really is a nightmare of a player. 3 year contract? Jesus Christ.

This- he is never in position, he wanders around and spends half his time in between the right back position and the right centre back- always in no mans land- never busts a gut to track back when a move breaks down- just trots back leaving us horribly exposed all the time.

I sit front row of the Paddock so when we're shooting towards the Street End he is right in front of me all game- he's an awful football player, has no drive or determination, his positional sense is none existant, his crosses almost always hit the first man, his marking is amateur and he's a fucking snail (or chooses not to run fast)

Kenny should be getting games.

[Romey 1878]

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914781876585418752

[Matt]

23 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914781876585418752

Only unexpected loss?! Nice ambition there...

[chalkpie]

28 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914781876585418752

Pathetic excuses from Moshiri. He needs to go with Koeman, and I don't say that lightly. Think about what he is saying here - we were EXPECTING losses. That is disturbing on so many levels. This is a bad sign. He wants to save face with signing Koeman,  it was his "Baby". Depressing. 

[London Blue]

27 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914781876585418752

Dreaded "Has my full support" statement.

Moshiri knows there is a problem and has says he expects Koeman to turn it around, I think he has about a month.

Ancelotti waiting, he wants to manage in the premier league again.

[London Blue]

Just now, chalkpie said:

Pathetic excuses from Moshiri. He needs to go with Koeman, and I don't say that lightly. Think about what he is saying here - we were EXPECTING losses. That is disturbing on so many levels. This is a bad sign. He wants to save face with signing Koeman,  it was his "Baby". Depressing. 

What else could he say?

He has to back the manager until he sacks him, otherwise Koeman has no authority.

[chalkpie]

1 minute ago, London Blue said:

What else could he say?

He has to back the manager until he sacks him, otherwise Koeman has no authority.

I guess....its still disturbing reading this. NSNO goes right out the window. 

[pete0]

4 hours ago, Shukes said:

I watch him quite closely to try to understand the hatred to him. I honestly can't see what's wrong with him? He had a pretty solid game in what was a dire team performance. Just seems like an average solid defender to me.

I don't hate him, I just don't see what he offers. Wood is very much a Championship player and will have gave him nightmares for the next week or so. Destroyed him mentally and physically. 

One thing that pissed me off yesterday is his ametuer his passing is. The time before looking for the pass to then putting his head down and booting the ball is unbelievable. Like watching a school kid practice a goal kick. 

[Bailey]

That's a pathetic statement.

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

https://twitter.com/JimWhite/status/914781876585418752

The dreaded "vote of confidence".  For those mincing words, they all suck and are all horrible.  It's meant as a last ditch effort to get the manager to turn it around.  Koeman knows that.  Another loss now and I think he's gone.

[Hafnia]

Ffs I thought moshiri was a results based business man. 

He's backed this manager to the tune of £125k a week wages.... paid off the last charlatan' s contract and given Ronald McDonald more money to spend on players than any other Everton manager. 

And he then says he pretty much expected to lose those games??? Just fuck off. 

Apathy is destroying our club.  We are paying top dollar for shite - and we are being told to accept it.

No fuckin chance. The club has been a meal ticket for under performers for too long. 

Koeman pissed me off when he started talking Barca and how lukaku needs to move away etc.  The man couldn't commit to signing his mega contract cos he needed his second holiday.

I just don't think he's been bought in to it from the off.