What about now? Sack the manager?

[Cornish Steve]

Rubes started a poll a few weeks ago, and most preferred to give Koeman more time. How would you respond to the same poll today?

[Palfy]

The same as middle of last season get rid of him, just a shame he's been allowed to go this far and spend so much money.

[Aidan]

Wow wasn't expecting 100% saying yes with 7 votes.

[EFC-Paul]

Yes and sort of for the second 

Ancelotti and Rhino as assistant for me 

[Guest]

Eddie Howe and david unsworth. The dream team..

[London Blue]

I was a big fan of Koeman and impressed with what he did in the first season. I was impressed with the players we signed (except Coco), I knew that they would take time to settle in. The tough run in to the season didn't help and not replacing Lukaku made the job tougher, but I had faith.

No more though, the constant inability to learn from his mistakes, playing 2 defensive midfielders, not playing players in their correct positions Siggy, DCL etc, not using players who give us width and pace like Lookman, Vlasic, Mirallas and playing players who are out of form like Williams, and Coco, and the refusal to give players like Davies, Lookman and Kenny the run in the team they deserve means he has to go, and go now.

I would give Unsworth a chance, we have allot of young players in the squad who he knows and they know and trust him. He has proven himself with the youth team and deserves shot with the main squad at least until the end of the season, we can re-assess then. We are not going to attract a top manager now, except maybe Ancilotti but I doubt he will come to us now.

[MikeO]

Been here before with previous managers but this needs to be remembered (and only those of us of a certain age can).

Fan power would've seen Kendall sacked pre-Kevin Brock moment; he was at least as reviled as Koeman is now and Goodison had crowds of 15,000.

What happened next?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Been here before with previous managers but this needs to be remembered (and only those of us of a certain age can).

Fan power would've seen Kendall sacked pre-Kevin Brock moment; he was at least as reviled as Koeman is now and Goodison had crowds of 15,000.

What happened next?

Yes, but we could also have the Kendall of a third stint and be crossing our fingers on the last day.

[markjazzbassist]

not yet

[Btay]

I still think players are equally responsible.

[markjazzbassist]

6 minutes ago, Btay said:

I still think players are equally responsible.

agreed. 

[Bailey]

A manager is always responsible for those below them. You would hope that grown men could stand up and be counted even when the person above them isn't doing as well as they should be but very few do, and in fairness, if they did you wouldn't need a manager.

[Gwlad]

YES.  We're in the merde and if Leicester win tomorrow we're deeper in it. Europa on Thursday could be further embarrassment.

[Gwlad]

I get that the players should step up but if he's lost the dressing room, then what?

[Btay]

Just now, Bailey said:

A manager is always responsible for those below them. You would hope that grown men could stand up and be counted even when the person above them isn't doing as well as they should be but very few do, and in fairness, if they did you wouldn't need a manager.

I accept that, however it seems thy downed tools when things got hard with Martinez and are doing the same under koeman. 

Say we get  ancelotti or another big name - they tell our players some hard truths, I don't think they are going to respond well.

our senior players need to pull their heads in and take some responsibility because so far it only seems DCL, Vlasic, Holgate, Davis and to an extent Baines are having a crack.

[Btay]

1 minute ago, Gwlad all over said:

I get that the players should step up but if he's lost the dressing room, then what?

This is my point though, do the players perhaps feel they can just down tools every time it gets hard and we will get a new manager. 

[Bailey]

13 minutes ago, Btay said:

I accept that, however it seems thy downed tools when things got hard with Martinez and are doing the same under koeman. 

Say we get  ancelotti or another big name - they tell our players some hard truths, I don't think they are going to respond well.

our senior players need to pull their heads in and take some responsibility because so far it only seems DCL, Vlasic, Holgate, Davis and to an extent Baines are having a crack.

It's what players do at all clubs, not just ours. 

I have some sympathy with some players because they are being used in ways which don't make the most of their skills and therefore I don't expect them to do as well as they can and bar Williams I haven't seen anyone give up. 

 

When you are constantly banging your head against the wall it's very difficult to stay motivated no matter what you do.

[rubecula]

don't care if he stays or goes,  all I want is the club to be up where we belong

[London Blue]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Been here before with previous managers but this needs to be remembered (and only those of us of a certain age can).

Fan power would've seen Kendall sacked pre-Kevin Brock moment; he was at least as reviled as Koeman is now and Goodison had crowds of 15,000.

What happened next?

Agreed, but were we this bad under Kendall or were there signs of a quality? 

I was too young to watch then but from what I read we had the makings of a very good side and just needed a break.

[MikeO]

10 hours ago, London Blue said:

Agreed, but were we this bad under Kendall or were there signs of a quality? 

I was too young to watch then but from what I read we had the makings of a very good side and just needed a break.

We were worse if anything. On 31st Dec 1983 we drew 0-0 at home to Coventry (13,000 crowd so not exactly people thinking "a very good side that just needed a break") and had scored less goals than anyone else in all four divisions (11 in 21 games). Funnily enough the previous season we'd finished seventh.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

We were worse if anything. On 31st Dec 1983 we drew 0-0 at home to Coventry (13,000 crowd so not exactly people thinking "a very good side that just needed a break") and had scored less goals than anyone else in all four divisions (11 in 21 games). Funnily enough the previous season we'd finished seventh.

I don't see anything to make me feel that koeman has anything remotely in his locker to do a Kendall....

Kendall knew Everton inside out.... he was a motivator, the majority of the team again st Coventry won the league. He stuck with them..... koeman seems to only stick with his defensive midfield pairing.... the rest he just toys about with. The 

 

Koeman is reminding me more of mike walker after getting in Duncan Ferguson and Ian Durrant..... the basis of a decent side with Joe Parkinson, limpar, Horne, Dave Watson, Stuart, Southall, rideout...

1st November 1994 I was sat in the upper bullens watching us scrape a 1-0 win against West ham.... Gary Ablett RIP with a stooping header.  Lee chapman nearly scoring at the end for them... The whistles beckoning the ref to blow his whistle were absolutely ear piercing. 

No way could walker stay. we needed a man who could work with a side of decent talent and solidity.  Royle kbew Everton and injected Everton into those players....  koeman cant do that.

 

Unsworth and Dunc for me. 

[MikeO]

41 minutes ago, hafnia said:

 I don't see anything to make me feel that koeman has anything remotely in his locker to do a Kendall....

And back then nobody thought Kendall had anything remotely in his locker to "do a Kendall" (Philip Carter aside). You'd have been leading the witch hunt with a pitchfork Haf.

Just saying. 

[Romey 1878]

Please stop with the Dunc shouts. Please. I won’t be able to cope if that man gets any more responsibility. 

The Unsworth shouts are much more palatable and sensible. 

[MC11]

15 hours ago, MikeO said:

Been here before with previous managers but this needs to be remembered (and only those of us of a certain age can).

Fan power would've seen Kendall sacked pre-Kevin Brock moment; he was at least as reviled as Koeman is now and Goodison had crowds of 15,000.

What happened next?

😂😂😂

[Hafnia]

36 minutes ago, MikeO said:

And back then nobody thought Kendall had anything remotely in his locker to "do a Kendall" (Philip Carter aside). You'd have been leading the witch hunt with a pitchfork Haf.

Just saying. 

Witchhunt?  I've not really had to do much hunting - maybe I just seen the black cape, black cat, pointy nose and broom stick before most....

The cautionary tale about Kendall and his transformation of a relegation threatened team into title winners has very few parallels with Koeman.... Kendall took over a team that had survived relegation by the skin of its teeth 2 years on the trot...

Koeman took over a side that had almost breached the top 4 but dropped to midtable.......  he spent £200m on and seen us resemble a side lacking any leadership or direction.  He's spent a fortune  and made us look a lot worse....

In doing this Koeman has alienated players and given the fans no idea as to what type of football he is looking to play.

Can anyone tell me what it is he is trying to do?  Nearly every manager has a type of style - a philosophy - Koeman? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[johnh]

31 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Witchhunt?  I've not really had to do much hunting - maybe I just seen the black cape, black cat, pointy nose and broom stick before most....

The cautionary tale about Kendall and his transformation of a relegation threatened team into title winners has very few parallels with Koeman.... Kendall took over a team that had survived relegation by the skin of its teeth 2 years on the trot...

Koeman took over a side that had almost breached the top 4 but dropped to midtable.......  he spent £200m on and seen us resemble a side lacking any leadership or direction.  He's spent a fortune  and made us look a lot worse....

In doing this Koeman has alienated players and given the fans no idea as to what type of football he is looking to play.

Can anyone tell me what it is he is trying to do?  Nearly every manager has a type of style - a philosophy - Koeman? 

 

 

Can only agree with the line above.  He  changes personnel and tactics not only from game to game but also from first-half to second-half without, it seems,  any pattern.  We have now played eight league games, does anyone know what our stock game plan is?  It is rather 'I wonder what tactics and players we are using this week'.  He appears to change things off the cuff rather than have a long-term plan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, johnh said:

 

I said the same last season too. 

[Newty82]

I'm still 'No'. But it's getting bloody difficult.

Game by game, I'm struggling.

My thing is, I know he's better than this. I've never been sure as to whether he is the man to take us up to the next level, as in constant top 4 and closer to title challenges. So I would never be surprised if he didnt do that. But I did think he was capable of enabling us to push for 4th. Or at least cementing our place up there once and for all.

Keeping the faith is getting harder with each passing game.

[Newty82]

20 hours ago, MikeO said:

Been here before with previous managers but this needs to be remembered (and only those of us of a certain age can).

Fan power would've seen Kendall sacked pre-Kevin Brock moment; he was at least as reviled as Koeman is now and Goodison had crowds of 15,000.

What happened next?

I suppose the question is that since that era, how many times have we stuck at it in the hope that it turns into a Kendall?

[MikeO]

9 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

I suppose the question is that since that era, how many times have we stuck at it in the hope that it turns into a Kendall?

I'm not for a moment suggesting it's going to happen; just putting it out there that fan power can be wrong. Supposedly Mark Robins saving Fergie from the sack in 1990 is another example, probably the biggest. Glad I'm not the man making the decision.