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Crystal Palace (Away) Saturday Novermber 18th

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Just now, nogs said:

No defending the starting line up today, I don't know what he was thinking. Starting Gana and Schneiderlin was my big gripe with Koeman, I really, really don't get it. 

I don’t get this whole season tbh. 

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Can’t remember anyone saying it’s inconceivable . But I did say I don’t think we will go down. I still don’t, we played badly and picked up a point.

Can be arsed trying to dig out any direct quotes but pretty sure Bill and Matt have said or at least alluded to that , hence the question being directed at them


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15 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Honest question to Bill, Matt and anyone else who thinks relegation is inconceivable.
Given we have just been fortunate to get a point against the side who are bottom of the table, and who before today had only amassed a grand total of 4 points all season. If we are not in danger who is?

 

Just to throw another stat in.  There is only one team in the league who has a worse goal difference than us and that is the bottom team, who outplayed us today.

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My God that was shit. I was lucky enough to not find a stream for about half an hour in the middle of the game but I really didnt enjoy what I could see.

After the last game, I remember Unsworth commenting on the players taking confidence from the result and the 2nd half performance to get them up the pitch but that confidence didnt show at any point of the game. The back 4 are far too deep, the midfield are covering too much ground and poor Oumar is isolated. When you add players like Oumar, Gana and to an extent Lookman, you aren't going to get yourself up the pitch because they dont look after the ball well enough so you are constantly defending wave after wave of attack. If you want to just play back to front, get DCL up there and sacrifice a midfielder.

I think the one shining light today was Kenny. I missed the first goal, which I hear he was partly responsible for, but from what I saw he didnt put a foot wrong and dealt really well with Zaha.

Lennon worked his nuts off, as did Oumar, but there was no quality there. Sandro looked lively when he came on, probably his best cameo in truth so it looks like he has worked hard in the international break.

The rest were varying shades between bang average and piss poor.

We really have to improve and its sad to say that I cant see where it comes from. We are definitely in a relegation scrap and we need a manager who can come in and turn us around because I really do fear for us. I don't see us keeping a clean sheet and nor do I see us scoring many goals off our own good work.

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4 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Your right, somehow he’s pulled four points from the last two games.... and we’re still playing shit.

Yeah, Unsworth’s tactics are the reason the ref gave us a very soft penalty and Speroni had a brain fart. Even against Watford I don’t think it was anything Unsworth did - Niasse was Niasse and then the crowd woke up and the players fed off it. Until then we looked as shite as ever, we started with the wrong players and system. 

Anyway, the point was more tongue in cheek that Koeman had to make consistent changes at half-time and got bollocked for it but Unsworth has to do it game after game and not much is said at all. 

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6 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


Can be arsed trying to dig out any direct quotes but pretty sure Bill and Matt have said or at least alluded to that , hence the question being directed at them

 

Sorry mate bought you were directing it generally at those that are confident we won’t.

i would say that picking up points when you are playing this bad is a positive though. Not pulling up trees but a step in the right direction.

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25 minutes ago, nogs said:

They are playing well at home and not winning, that isn't going to keep you up. Last two games we've played badly and got four points, that will. 

I wish I shared your optimism.

If they play like that in every game they will start to win.  If we carry on playing like that we will start to lose - we can't ride our luck for the whole season.

 

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1 minute ago, Bailey said:

Its like some weird nightmare... How can things be going so wrong!?

The horrible thing is it’s hard to see how it’s going to change. Hopefully a new manager can see a way through it because Koeman and Unsworth couldn’t and can’t. 

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Can we all be agreed now that Schneiderlin and Gana should never be seen on the pitch together again, I know I've said it hundreds of times it makes us to defensive to negative, drop them both and start with Davies and Besic in their positions and only have one on the bench, then we can reinstall Vlasic to the bench to use when we need a impact player to change a game 

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2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Yeah, Unsworth’s tactics are the reason the ref gave us a very soft penalty and Speroni had a brain fart. Even against Watford I don’t think it was anything Unsworth did - Niasse was Niasse and then the crowd woke up and the players fed off it. Until then we looked as shite as ever, we started with the wrong players and system. 

Anyway, the point was more tongue in cheek that Koeman had to make consistent changes at half-time and got bollocked for it but Unsworth has to do it game after game and not much is said at all. 

Ye my answer was tongue in cheek as well mate. But we could have easily fell apart after going behind twice, but managed to scrape a point however lucky it was.

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Just now, Shukes said:

Ye my answer was tongue in cheek as well mate. But we could have easily fell apart after going behind twice, but managed to scrape a point however lucky it was.

This season is just horrendous isn’t it? Feels like it’s been going a year already :lol: 

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Sorry mate bought you were directing it generally at those that are confident we won’t.
i would say that picking up points when you are playing this bad is a positive though. Not pulling up trees but a step in the right direction.

Definitely , we were absolutely shite and nicked a point , we can only improve. My worry is we have the joint worst defence in the division, with Palace , and we can’t score . That’s a recipe for disaster


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2 minutes ago, badaids said:

I wish I shared your optimism.

If they play like that in every game they will start to win.  If we carry on playing like that we will start to lose - we can't ride our luck for the whole season.

 

Two important things have changed the last two games. We're coming back after going behind, which was just not happening under Koeman. And we've scored 5 in two games, which again was just not happening. I'm not pretending it's great, but it's all about surviving now, and those are two things to cling onto. 

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2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

The horrible thing is it’s hard to see how it’s going to change. Hopefully a new manager can see a way through it because Koeman and Unsworth couldn’t and can’t. 

We definitely need some fresh ideas to be brought into the fold because I only see very marginal improvement and given how shite we were under Koeman I was expecting a much bigger difference.

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Can we all be agreed now that Schneiderlin and Gana should never be seen on the pitch together again, I know I've said it hundreds of times it makes us to defensive to negative, drop them both and start with Davies and Besic in their positions and only have one on the bench, then we can reinstall Vlasic to the bench to use when we need a impact player to change a game 

At the moment I dont think it matters who you play in midfield. Besic has been shite this season too. Siggy played in there today and he was crap. Only Beni, McCarthy and Davies have been slightly more than piss poor at points this season.

 

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7 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

The horrible thing is it’s hard to see how it’s going to change. Hopefully a new manager can see a way through it because Koeman and Unsworth couldn’t and can’t. 

It's not until we can make wholesale changes to the playing squad. 

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7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Can we all be agreed now that Schneiderlin and Gana should never be seen on the pitch together again, I know I've said it hundreds of times it makes us to defensive to negative, drop them both and start with Davies and Besic in their positions and only have one on the bench, then we can reinstall Vlasic to the bench to use when we need a impact player to change a game 

I was saying that in September. It's just so fucking obvious. 

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3 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


Definitely , we were absolutely shite and nicked a point , we can only improve. My worry is we have the joint worst defence in the division, with Palace , and we can’t score . That’s a recipe for disaster

 

We've scored 5 in two games

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Just now, nogs said:

It's not until we can make wholesale changes to the playing squad. 

But should we really have to? Its not like we have a terrible group of players. They are shot to bits at the moment but we have enough talent in the squad to be playing far far better than we are.

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11 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Can we all be agreed now that Schneiderlin and Gana should never be seen on the pitch together again, I know I've said it hundreds of times it makes us to defensive to negative, drop them both and start with Davies and Besic in their positions and only have one on the bench, then we can reinstall Vlasic to the bench to use when we need a impact player to change a game 

I really don’t think Gana is the problematic part of the equation. Schneiderlin has been ghosting through games and playing like an absolute knob. I also don’t know that Davies is responsible enough to play alongside Gana. He has a lot of loose touches and brain farts. Besic has never shown that he can be relied upon. Gana with Baningame (I know I spelled this wrong) looks like a promising pair, if we are to play with two defensive midfielders. Or Gana with McCarthy, who we know is a strong, responsible player that never stops working .

I would rather see us play with an inverted triangle. Gana at the base, with two more advanced players ahead of him (preferably a healthy Ross Barkley and either Sigurdsson, should he ever get his game back, Vlasic, Lookman, or Klaassen).

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Just now, Bailey said:

But should we really have to? Its not like we have a terrible group of players. They are shot to bits at the moment but we have enough talent in the squad to be playing far far better than we are.

I'd say the evidence on the pitch is they are not good enough. Talent and scouting stats mean fuck all if you don't produce when it matters. I thought the squad Martinez put together was full of promise and was ruined by his dreadful approach to defending. I think this squad is full of shite. So yes, £140 million later, we need wholesale changes. 

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2 minutes ago, Bailey said:

We definitely need some fresh ideas to be brought into the fold because I only see very marginal improvement and given how shite we were under Koeman I was expecting a much bigger difference.

At the moment I dont think it matters who you play in midfield. Besic has been shite this season too. Siggy played in there today and he was crap. Only Beni, McCarthy and Davies have been slightly more than piss poor at points this season.

 

It does matter you can't carry 2 midfielders that show no fight for the game that hardly contribute anything, Davies and Besic would battle win the ball back work there nuts off, which in turn would allow your play makers like Gylfi more freedom to be creative rather than spending all game defending and trying to win the ball back, because the 2 dicks that started are incapable of either. Yeah it matters Bailey it matters a lot.

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1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Honest question to Bill, Matt and anyone else who thinks relegation is inconceivable.
Given we have just been fortunate to get a point against the side who are bottom of the table, and who before today had only amassed a grand total of 4 points all season. If we are not in danger who is?

As three of those four points came against Chelsea I'll guess them.

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How we got a point today escapes me- we are in a right mess and were totally outplayed. Unsworth is not right for the job. We’ve literally stolen the last 4 points- it’s not good enough and something has to change as our luck wont hold out like this forever.

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Other than one play at the start of the second half, were DCL should have scored, I don't remember us stringing a few passes together and surging towards goal. Niasse worked with scraps and I genuinely don't think any other striker in the league would have got us them two goals today. The midfield is embarrassing, left the striker isolated and didn't shield the defence at all. There's no fight in Schneiderlin, no brain in Gana, and Lookman isn't ready for this level yet. The midfield didn't even engage in a battle and sat that far back you'd think we were a league one team.  

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7 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Other than one play at the start of the second half, were DCL should have scored, I don't remember us stringing a few passes together and surging towards goal. Niasse worked with scraps and I genuinely don't think any other striker in the league would have got us them two goals today. The midfield is embarrassing, left the striker isolated and didn't shield the defence at all. There's no fight in Schneiderlin, no brain in Gana, and Lookman isn't ready for this level yet. The midfield didn't even engage in a battle and sat that far back you'd think we were a league one team.  

Agree with everything you said there good post.

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14 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Agree with everything you said there good post.

Cheers Palfy.

Gana never being goal side and Schneiderlin's lack of commitment is doing my head in. It's got to the point where I'm wound up just from looking at the team sheet.

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1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


Oh come on seriously ?
We have been gifted at leat 4 of those goals and we are averaging just 1.3 goals per game (https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/7/Everton/stats)

You honestly don’t think that’s a problem?

 

I wasn't talking about the first 10 games of the season. I stated a fact - we've scored 5 in 2. If you want to bandy averages about, that means we've averaged 2.5 goals a game in the last two. 

I don't really think it matters how they come. We needed to start scoring more and we have done. 

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47 minutes ago, Paddock said:

How we got a point today escapes me- we are in a right mess and were totally outplayed. Unsworth is not right for the job. We’ve literally stolen the last 4 points- it’s not good enough and something has to change as our luck wont hold out like this forever.

So come on then you've made it obvious what you think of Unsworth - get your balls out your pocket, who should we get in? 

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I wasn't talking about the first 10 games of the season. I stated a fact - we've scored 5 in 2. If you want to bandy averages about, that means we've averaged 2.5 goals a game in the last two. 
I don't really think it matters how they come. We needed to start scoring more and we have done. 

As I said we have been gifted 4 of those goals so IMO we still have an issue


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Two comments. First, let’s remember that Palace beat Chelsea and have been a bogey team for us in recent years. Second, many called for ugly wins or draws over exciting losses. We got a point away. I’m ok with that right now. 

Can’t say fair than that , but it’s a good indicator of where we are in the grand scheme of things that we are thankful for stealing a point from the side firmly ensconced at the bottom of the table


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7 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


Can’t say fair than that , but it’s a good indicator of where we are in the grand scheme of things that we are thankful for stealing a point from the side firmly ensconced at the bottom of the table

 

And that's exactly where we are. Forget performances now, it's all about points and survival. It's going to take more than one window to turn things round because our squad is so far from being what it should be. So there's no point being surprised we're shit anymore - here we are, it's going to be a long process. 

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37 minutes ago, nogs said:

So come on then you've made it obvious what you think of Unsworth - get your balls out your pocket, who should we get in? 

I don’t know but as last ng as he is experienced and knows what he is doing managing at the top level I will be happy. We need some identity- every game the team has 3 or 4 changes, 2 subs made at half time on a regular basis. We need continuity, players to form partnerships, players knowing their roles, round pegs in round holes and a manager who can instil confidence and belief.

I’m not sure I’m even arsed who that is anymore but we desperately need it put in place. For the record, I have nothing against Unsworth, I’ve said many a time if we were on 37 points with 10 games to go I’d be happy to try him out but we are an absolute shambles and I want someone in place who has experience in top flight management. He’s too much of a risk- if we go down it would finish us, the stadium would be gone the lot.

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And that's exactly where we are. Forget performances now, it's all about points and survival. It's going to take more than one window to turn things round because our squad is so far from being what it should be. So there's no point being surprised we're shit anymore - here we are, it's going to be a long process. 

Totally agree it’s all about results now, we need points on the board and I dot care how we get them
We didn’t deserve anything out of that game today so I am delighted with the point

The point being that some people believe we are too good to go down and as desperate as I am to jump on that band wagon I just don’t believe it


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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Cheers Palfy.

Gana never being goal side and Schneiderlin's lack of commitment is doing my head in. It's got to the point where I'm wound up just from looking at the team sheet.

I think most of us are feeling that way an hour before kick off you see the team sheet and you know we are going to struggle, what I find hard to comprehend is that the management can't, who are meant to be the professionals here cause the ones being paid to do the job look more like the amateurs.

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1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


Totally agree it’s all about results now, we need points on the board and I dot care how we get them
We didn’t deserve anything out of that game today so I am delighted with the point

The point being that some people believe we are too good to go down and as desperate as I am to jump on that band wagon I just don’t believe it

 

No we're not too good to go down I agree. We're awful. But now I've seen some fight in us, I think we'll do enough, at home especially. If we fight, Good is on becomes a very hard place to play. But it's a massive job long term turning this around and it's down to the board now to get a fucking clue because we haven't had one in a while. 

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1 hour ago, Paddock said:

I don’t know but as last ng as he is experienced and knows what he is doing managing at the top level I will be happy. We need some identity- every game the team has 3 or 4 changes, 2 subs made at half time on a regular basis. We need continuity, players to form partnerships, players knowing their roles, round pegs in round holes and a manager who can instil confidence and belief.

I’m not sure I’m even arsed who that is anymore but we desperately need it put in place. For the record, I have nothing against Unsworth, I’ve said many a time if we were on 37 points with 10 games to go I’d be happy to try him out but we are an absolute shambles and I want someone in place who has experience in top flight management. He’s too much of a risk- if we go down it would finish us, the stadium would be gone the lot.

Fair enough. I think the quality and balance in the squad is more of a problem than the manager, I just want a decision as I don't think the uncertainty helps at all.

I don't agree about relegation. I think we'd win the Championship by a country mile first time of asking. Not that I'm suggesting I want that of course, everything we do the rest of this season has to be about making sure it doesn't happen. 

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Fair enough. I think the quality and balance in the squad is more of a problem than the manager, I just want a decision as I don't think the uncertainty helps at all.
I don't agree about relegation. I think we'd win the Championship by a country mile first time of asking. Not that I'm suggesting I want that of course, everything we do the rest of this season has to be about making sure it doesn't happen. 

110% agree with the comments about the squad being more of an issue than the next manager, whoever takes over has got a massive job on their hands


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4 hours ago, Palfy said:

It does matter you can't carry 2 midfielders that show no fight for the game that hardly contribute anything, Davies and Besic would battle win the ball back work there nuts off, which in turn would allow your play makers like Gylfi more freedom to be creative rather than spending all game defending and trying to win the ball back, because the 2 dicks that started are incapable of either. Yeah it matters Bailey it matters a lot.

The problem is bigger than who plays where. Besic is going to be the same loose canon as Gana. Davies has played a fair bit and whilst he would be the first midfielder on my team sheet, a different name on the team sheet isn' going to make enough of a difference. 

As I said before, we don't have a shit squad. Before the league started we expected top 7 with the same players but they haven't performed as a team. Yes we have weaknesses in team e team but not relegation level weaknesses.

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12 minutes ago, Paddock said:

It’s the stability that’s needed- if it’s Unsworth then it’s unsworth- I think it’s a massive gamble but regardless of who it is- get it sorted so everyone knows where they are and can work hard.

Amen! 

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35 minutes ago, Paddock said:

It’s the stability that’s needed- if it’s Unsworth then it’s unsworth- I think it’s a massive gamble but regardless of who it is- get it sorted so everyone knows where they are and can work hard.

You could give the job to Mourinho or Pep and if they pick Gana and Schneiderlin together your get the same result, we need a manager who's prepared to change the Koeman madness of the 2 defensive midfielders which ends up being a back 6.

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4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You could give the job to Mourinho or Pep and if they pick Gana and Schneiderlin together your get the same result, we need a manager who's prepared to change the Koeman madness of the 2 defensive midfielders which ends up being a back 6.

It's a pretty god awful back 6 if you ask me.

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49 minutes ago, Palfy said:

You could give the job to Mourinho or Pep and if they pick Gana and Schneiderlin together your get the same result, we need a manager who's prepared to change the Koeman madness of the 2 defensive midfielders which ends up being a back 6.

You say this like we didn't play well enough with them in the team last season?

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7 hours ago, Bailey said:

You say this like we didn't play well enough with them in the team last season?

Last season how many league games did they start and finish together I can't remember watching a game thinking they were dynamic together, looking back through my old posts of that season I can see that I was constantly saying with a few others we were terrible with both of them on the pitch, to answer your question on last season I never believed we played really well as a team but we won games which papered over the cracks because when you're winning it's hard to criticise, but the main reason for our ability to play average football ball and win wasn't because of Gana and Schneiderlin's good partnership because that never existed it was because of the goals the strength the pace and the ability to play up front on his own to be isolated and still be a threat of Lukaku which was the main factor of our success last season.

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10 hours ago, Bailey said:

You say this like we didn't play well enough with them in the team last season?

I think Lukaku, Barkley and Barry's had a much bigger influence on our form last season. 

And anyway, you can't keep playing people because of last season's form. This season, the pair of them have been very poor, when played together, dreadful. 

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Everton is playing the worst and ugliest football at the moment since the last Moyes days. The squad is totally unballanced. Too many new players. Too many young and inexperienced players. Too many players with enough skill but too little brains. A captain and a stand-in manager who is not mentally strong enough to handle the crisis we find ourselves in. At this rate we shall certainly  remain strong relegation contenders. We need a clever manager, strong captain, another striker, a proper nr 10 a better left back and changes at defensive mid. Keane is a liability at centre back as well. Effort alone is not enough in this league. It is a miracle that we did not end up with 10 men yesterday.

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12 hours ago, pete0 said:

We never. Our best form was with Barry and Davies. 

In order to test your theory I have gone on Squawka and used their performance stats to see if you are correct. They stated that our best performance last season were against Sunderland x 2, Hull, Watford, Palace, Burnley and Southampton.

Watford H ( Davies, Schneiderlin, Gueye) - Score 399

Burnley H (Davies, Gueye, Schneiderlin) - Score 383

Hull H (Schniederlin, Gueye, Davies) - 738

Sunderland H (Gueye, Schneiderlin, Davies) - 404

Palace A (Barkley, Barry, Davies) - 399

Southampton H - (Gueye, Davies, Barkley) 501

Sunderland A (Gueye, Davies, Barkley) 433

 

Barry is only present in one of those games. Gueye and Schneiderlin played in 4 of our top 7 'performances' together (all of which were also alongside Davies).

 

5 hours ago, Palfy said:

Last season how many league games did they start and finish together I can't remember watching a game thinking they were dynamic together, looking back through my old posts of that season I can see that I was constantly saying with a few others we were terrible with both of them on the pitch, to answer your question on last season I never believed we played really well as a team but we won games which papered over the cracks because when you're winning it's hard to criticise, but the main reason for our ability to play average football ball and win wasn't because of Gana and Schneiderlin's good partnership because that never existed it was because of the goals the strength the pace and the ability to play up front on his own to be isolated and still be a threat of Lukaku which was the main factor of our success last season.

Last year everyone was saying Schneiderlin was a Rolls Royce of a player and if there was a worry, it was over Gueye because of his positioning however that was balanced by Schneiderlin and his ability to read the game. Davies then joined those two to bring more dynamism to the side, with Barkley wide and Lukaku up top. I feel like some people are trying to rw-write history. I agree we did paper over the cracks at time last season, but the midfield trio of Schneiderlin, Gueye and Davies would have probably been the highlight of the campaign.

2 hours ago, nogs said:

I think Lukaku, Barkley and Barry's had a much bigger influence on our form last season. 

And anyway, you can't keep playing people because of last season's form. This season, the pair of them have been very poor, when played together, dreadful. 

Barry had very little input on our form last season.

There were plenty of games where Lukaku and Barkley didnt get a kick. They are obviously big improvements on what we have now but we are that shit as a team at the moment I think it would make only a negligible difference if they were in the side. It didnt at this time last year so I dont see why it would now.

Completely agree about the last point, but my arguement is who has been in form? Davies has shown a spark, McCarthy has but he has been injured, Beni looked good but he is still a boy. Besic has looked crap in the glimpses we have seen of him and so has Klaasen. Who else is there?

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34 minutes ago, Bill said:

The seats are awful as well aren't they Sideliner.  Have you ever thought about supporting Tranmere Rovers.

Calm down Bill mate that's a bit harsh on Tranmere.:)

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