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Crystal Palace (Away) Saturday Novermber 18th

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28 minutes ago, Bailey said:

In order to test your theory I have gone on Squawka and used their performance stats to see if you are correct. They stated that our best performance last season were against Sunderland x 2, Hull, Watford, Palace, Burnley and Southampton.

Watford H ( Davies, Schneiderlin, Gueye) - Score 399

Burnley H (Davies, Gueye, Schneiderlin) - Score 383

Hull H (Schniederlin, Gueye, Davies) - 738

Sunderland H (Gueye, Schneiderlin, Davies) - 404

Palace A (Barkley, Barry, Davies) - 399

Southampton H - (Gueye, Davies, Barkley) 501

Sunderland A (Gueye, Davies, Barkley) 433

 

Barry is only present in one of those games. Gueye and Schneiderlin played in 4 of our top 7 'performances' together (all of which were also alongside Davies).

 

Last year everyone was saying Schneiderlin was a Rolls Royce of a player and if there was a worry, it was over Gueye because of his positioning however that was balanced by Schneiderlin and his ability to read the game. Davies then joined those two to bring more dynamism to the side, with Barkley wide and Lukaku up top. I feel like some people are trying to rw-write history. I agree we did paper over the cracks at time last season, but the midfield trio of Schneiderlin, Gueye and Davies would have probably been the highlight of the campaign.

Barry had very little input on our form last season.

There were plenty of games where Lukaku and Barkley didnt get a kick. They are obviously big improvements on what we have now but we are that shit as a team at the moment I think it would make only a negligible difference if they were in the side. It didnt at this time last year so I dont see why it would now.

Completely agree about the last point, but my arguement is who has been in form? Davies has shown a spark, McCarthy has but he has been injured, Beni looked good but he is still a boy. Besic has looked crap in the glimpses we have seen of him and so has Klaasen. Who else is there?

Besic played a long side Schneiderlin once this season and it looked better than Gana and Schneiderlin, Besic was more forward thinking than Gana could get back at pace when it broke down, he did make some clumsy tackles at times but no more than Gana would make but is energy passing and reading of the game far surpassed Gana, and Schneiderlin looked better for not having Gana crowding his space.

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1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Besic played a long side Schneiderlin once this season and it looked better than Gana and Schneiderlin, Besic was more forward thinking than Gana could get back at pace when it broke down, he did make some clumsy tackles at times but no more than Gana would make but is energy passing and reading of the game far surpassed Gana, and Schneiderlin looked better for not having Gana crowding his space.

I think Besic and Gana are much of a muchness so I wouldnt mind seeing them play together. I would say Besic is better on the ball but Gana is better at winning the ball back but there isnt much in it.

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2 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I think Besic and Gana are much of a muchness so I wouldnt mind seeing them play together. I would say Besic is better on the ball but Gana is better at winning the ball back but there isnt much in it.

My reason for wanting to see Schneiderlin and Gana as a pairing broken up is because it just isn't working, we all know we need to try something different because what Koeman and yesterday Unsworth see as the obvious team on paper is not working Unsworth needs to be more brave in his team selections the majority of fans would back him to try something different. I would like to see him go for a line up of

Pickford.

Kenny. Williams. Jags. Baines.

Davies. Gylfi. Besic.

Lennon. Niasse. Vlasic.

We need to get away from the usual starters or nothing will change and Bill will lose a tenner.

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2 hours ago, Bailey said:

In order to test your theory I have gone on Squawka and used their performance stats to see if you are correct. They stated that our best performance last season were against Sunderland x 2, Hull, Watford, Palace, Burnley and Southampton.

Surprised City isn't included. Football is more complex to be judged purely on stats. Would you not agree City was our best performance.

Take our last run of games when both started to play and it coincides with us going to pot. 

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3 hours ago, Bailey said:

Barry had very little input on our form last season.

Explain why we concede so much without him? 

The back four is largely the same, with an improved keeper. We've got a stand in right back, but we're not conceding down the right every week. 

The centre mids are the most vital cogs in the team. In possession they're supposed to transition the ball from defence to attack, ours if anything stifle it. Defensively they should hold their position and funnel the opposition in to the channels and cut the angles. Schneiderlin doesn't stand strong enough but at least tends to be in the right position, whereas Gana doesn't even know what goalside means. 

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2 hours ago, Bailey said:

I think Besic and Gana are much of a muchness so I wouldnt mind seeing them play together. I would say Besic is better on the ball but Gana is better at winning the ball back but there isnt much in it.

If Gana was goalside he wouldn't have to make half as many takles or give away silly free kicks for takles from behind. On top of that he only thinks one step so the tackle might be won but the ball is loose so we get punished. 

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2 hours ago, Palfy said:

My reason for wanting to see Schneiderlin and Gana as a pairing broken up is because it just isn't working, we all know we need to try something different because what Koeman and yesterday Unsworth see as the obvious team on paper is not working Unsworth needs to be more brave in his team selections the majority of fans would back him to try something different. I would like to see him go for a line up of

Pickford.

Kenny. Williams. Jags. Baines.

Davies. Gylfi. Besic.

Lennon. Niasse. Vlasic.

We need to get away from the usual starters or nothing will change and Bill will lose a tenner.

We have tried plenty of combinations and none of them seem to work. As I have said, it is bigger than players. The one thing I would like to see in that central midfield is Davies. He is our most dynamic and creative central player.

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Surprised City isn't included. Football is more complex to be judged purely on stats. Would you not agree City was our best performance.

Take our last run of games when both started to play and it coincides with us going to pot. 

Yeh of course it is Pete I was just using it as a reference point as I doubt we could agree which games were our best. In the City game we basically but away the few chances we had and the didn' put away theirs. I thought we would have scored better, as with the Arsenal game as well. 

 

Imo our worst games last season were pre Xmas, before Schneiderlin signed. In the spell you refer to I didn't think we would lose at home but nor win away. I don' agree that it went to pot then, we were still an effective team.

38 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Explain why we concede so much without him? 

The back four is largely the same, with an improved keeper. We've got a stand in right back, but we're not conceding down the right every week. 

The centre mids are the most vital cogs in the team. In possession they're supposed to transition the ball from defence to attack, ours if anything stifle it. Defensively they should hold their position and funnel the opposition in to the channels and cut the angles. Schneiderlin doesn't stand strong enough but at least tends to be in the right position, whereas Gana doesn't even know what goalside means. 

We were still conceding with him in the team. West Brom are conceding with him now. We are conceding too many as we aren' looking after the ball enough and causing a threat ourselves. We are on the back foot, we aren' pushing up and the structure in midfield was shocking under Koeman and Unsy is only just starting to piece that back together.

33 minutes ago, pete0 said:

If Gana was goalside he wouldn't have to make half as many takles or give away silly free kicks for takles from behind. On top of that he only thinks one step so the tackle might be won but the ball is loose so we get punished. 

Same thing applies to Besic imo

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We used to have a player that looked after the ball but fans hated it. They wanted him to be quicker in releasing it. 

I know there is a big difference in holding onto the ball that bit too long and looking after the ball, but this is where we needed to let Barkley grow and mature. 

Now we treat the ball like a hot potatoe. No one wants the ball as they are scared of making a Ross. When did Football become so scary and nervous racking. It should be an enjoyable sport.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Imo our worst games last season were pre Xmas, before Schneiderlin signed. In the spell you refer to I didn't think we would lose at home but nor win away. I don' agree that it went to pot then, we were still an effective team.

For me the spell before Xmas was when Gana had been found out. He left and Davies come in and we were much better for it. 

Effective is debatable, on paper I'd have expected more points. 

1-1 Man U a (no Schneiderlin) 

4-2 Leicester 

3-1 Burnley 

0-0 West Ham a

3-0 Chelsea a (no Schneiderlin) 

1-0 Swansea a (no Schneiderlin) 

1-0 Watford 

3-1 Arsenal a

I can't remember every performance, but I do remember being very disappointed with the team. 

Without Gana in January we won 3 and drew 1. Poor before he went on international duty, we then had a purple spell, and then went poor when he come back into the team. 

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5 hours ago, Bailey said:

image.png.31a0579f31de080d5c590f87abae5e09.png

 

For anyone who cares, this is our pitiful player position map from this game. #parkthebus

It's a tactic to stop the rot. 4 points from 6, coming from behind, from a team that was in freefall. 

Nothing will change over night, and if we have to play ugly to get some confidence, so be it. 

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

It's a tactic to stop the rot. 4 points from 6, coming from behind, from a team that was in freefall. 

Nothing will change over night, and if we have to play ugly to get some confidence, so be it. 

Exactly. I don't care how ugly we have to play or how defensive we have to play if it starts getting us results and moving us up the table

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2 hours ago, pete0 said:

For me the spell before Xmas was when Gana had been found out. He left and Davies come in and we were much better for it. 

Effective is debatable, on paper I'd have expected more points. 

1-1 Man U a (no Schneiderlin) 

4-2 Leicester 

3-1 Burnley 

0-0 West Ham a

3-0 Chelsea a (no Schneiderlin) 

1-0 Swansea a (no Schneiderlin) 

1-0 Watford 

3-1 Arsenal a

I can't remember every performance, but I do remember being very disappointed with the team. 

Without Gana in January we won 3 and drew 1. Poor before he went on international duty, we then had a purple spell, and then went poor when he come back into the team. 

Exactly what I've been saying for 18 months Gana is the weak link in our midfield, like I've said before he only cost 5.7M for a reason he's not good enough for the premier league ask Villa fans he helped them go down.

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Exactly what I've been saying for 18 months Gana is the weak link in our midfield, like I've said before he only cost 5.7M for a reason he's not good enough for the premier league ask Villa fans he helped them go down.

But somehow he got more MOTM votes last year than anyone else; I didn't update for the last two games (don't remember why) but with two games left this was the top of the table...

Player of the Season totals...
Idrissa Gana Gueye...208
Ross Barkley...177
Romelu Lukaku...169
Tom Davies...106

That would appear to suggest that though he "helped" Villa get relegated he also helped us into Europe. Maybe TT members just can't spot a crap player.
 

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