wolf8312 Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 I cant help but feeling that we utterly panicked! Is it not possible we were just on a very bad losing streak, with an unsettled squad, with new players coming in, and a very difficult cluster of fixtures, combined with the heavy burden of European football? But we never even waited to find out, and see what happened after we got out of Europe, the squad settled down, and most importantly when we extracted ourselves from that awful, and confidence shattering losing streak we were on. The strange thing is fans now seem fully capable of lowering their expectations (all the way down to casting us as relegation fodder) but only now that Koeman is gone, and would never have allowed Koeman's Everton similarly rock bottom expectations! The new manager will perhaps at least enjoy the opportunity of managing a club for which there is a convenient scapegoat to blame for having destroyed what he himself, is just trying to put back together again! Had Koeman enjoyed the expectation of simply staying in the PL, then I think he'd have been in for a very successful season! We will never know now, but it seems to me that we fired Koeman without any idea whatsoever of with whom to replace him, and bizarrely now seem to be running through a list of candidates who seem either less experienced, or just plain inferior to the man we already had! I believe as long as we dont look like going down, we could give Unsworth a chance until we are able to be sure of a decent replacement, but I find it incredible that we should be in this position so soon into the season. Surely the fans cant have had this situation in mind when they called for Koemans dismissal? I think people need to support the signings Koeman made as there's every chance they will come good in the end, when things settle down, and confidence is hopefully restored. For godsake though, lets stop panicking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 I think I read a stat somewhere that said if we win 5 of the next 7 games, then we would have the same points total in that period as last season. Not defending Koeman, but just stating that we also went on a bad streak last year. It just happened to be more towards the middle of the season. That said, the football has been pretty bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, tonkaroost said: I think I read a stat somewhere that said if we win 5 of the next 7 games Did you see the tiniest indication that that might happen? I didn't. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf8312 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 I'm sure I remember we played very poorly in the league, the last time we got into Europe as well. I think that European football makes a huge difference to how teams like ours performs in the PL. It was a big factor in Leicester winning the league and Liverpool very nearly winning it. Neither teams were competing in Europe which proved to be a huge advantage, and so it almost certainly follows that competing in europe is just as much a disadvantage, as not competing is an advantage, PL wise . After qualifying for the CL however both teams quickly sank like the titanic the next season! If a team does not have the depth within their squad, as do teams such as man city they really seem to struggle. Liverpool almost as much as Everton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, MikeO said: Did you see the tiniest indication that that might happen? I didn't. Based on the way we're playing, not so much; based on who we're playing, maybe. Crystal Palace (away) Southampton (away) West Ham (home) Huddersfield (home) Liverpool (away) Newcastle (away) Swansea (home) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 It wasn't just the results, it was the performances. In about 18 games this season under Koeman, there was negligible improvement in our performances. And you couldn't see where it was going to get any better. Unsworth might not be the answer, and his selections may have caused a bit of a stir, but there was more in the players performances from game 1. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Were we right to sack Koeman? Yes. Cornish Steve, Matt, pete0 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 We were right. The signs were there last year when ... dare I say it... Rom carried us through with a purple patch. When one player leaves a team and the team slumps so badly, it shows that there wasn’t the right mentality in the first place. Rom hasn’t got Utd to the top has he, which shows that we shouldn’t be a one man team either. We can lament losing Barkley as well, but Koeman has already replaced him. edit: I also don’t think any fan has lowered their expectation, but rather accepted our situation due to Koeman. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf8312 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, johnh said: Were we right to sack Koeman? Yes. You really brought out the big guns with that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, johnh said: Were we right to sack Koeman? Yes. Could have saved myself some typing.... "Yes" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, wolf8312 said: I'm sure I remember we played very poorly in the league, the last time we got into Europe as well. After nine league games in 14/15 we had 12 points vs 8 this time around, and before the "difficult opponents" argument kicks in we'd played Chelsea, Arse, Liverpool & ManU already. We'd also got a home win and two away draws in the Europa. Very different circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf8312 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, Shukes said: We were right. The signs were there last year when ... dare I say it... Rom carried us through with a purple patch. When one player leaves a team and the team slumps so badly, it shows that there wasn’t the right mentality in the first place. Rom hasn’t got Utd to the top has he, which shows that we shouldn’t be a one man team either. We can lament losing Barkley as well, but Koeman has already replaced him. Its not a case of wanting rid of him though, but whether or not at this point in time we are actually better off having sacked him? Sure sack him eventually if hes not doing well, but at least wait until we actually have a decent replacement lined up. Presently we have a manager with no PL experience and with names like big Sam in the hat! Was this the plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf8312 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, MikeO said: After nine league games in 14/15 we had 12 points vs 8 this time around, and before the "difficult opponents" argument kicks in we'd played Chelsea, Arse, Liverpool & ManU already. We'd also got a home win and two away draws in the Europa. Very different circumstances. Not really that much of a difference though couple of points...although granted cant really recall how our play compared with this season.... But still the europe aspect is only one part of the overall point I was trying to make... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, wolf8312 said: Its not a case of wanting rid of him though, but whether or not at this point in time we are actually better off having sacked him? Sure sack him eventually if hes not doing well, but at least wait until we actually have a decent replacement lined up. Presently we have a manager with no PL experience and with names like big Sam in the hat! Was this the plan? All I look at is what has happened since he left. blooded young players with desire. even in loss, performances improved. came back from behind to win for the first time in .... god knows. for me it’s inportant to have someone who can get the team fired up and isn’t scared of making big decisions. I don’t think anyone can argue that Unsworth hasn’t made some big decisions. Whether people agree with them or not, he made them. dropping Rooney, Siggy, picking Beni.changing the team at half time rather than wait till it’s to late etc. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf8312 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Shukes said: All I look at is what has happened since he left. blooded young players with desire. even in loss, performances improved. came back from behind to win for the first time in .... god knows. for me it’s inportant to have someone who can get the team fired up and isn’t scared of making big decisions. I don’t think anyone can argue that Unsworth hasn’t made some big decisions. Whether people agree with them or not, he made them. dropping Rooney, Siggy, picking Beni.changing the team at half time rather than wait till it’s to late etc. But are you prepared if it all goes tits up and we get relegated to admit that it is all YOUR fault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, wolf8312 said: But are you prepared if it all goes tits up and we get relegated to admit that it is all YOUR fault? It's never our fault...we're just fans...we know nothing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 minute ago, wolf8312 said: But are you prepared if it all goes tits up and we get relegated to admit that it is all YOUR fault? I don’t think will be capable haha! I’ll probably be in hospital due to self harm. diaclosure for the sensitive shits... I mean souls. Ahh stuff it, let them be offended haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Is this a trick question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Matt said: Is this a trick question? Approach with caution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf8312 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, Shukes said: I don’t think will be capable haha! I’ll probably be in hospital due to self harm. diaclosure for the sensitive shits... I mean souls. Ahh stuff it, let them be offended haha! haha good thing about sticking with hypothetical Koeman is that he could have been a roaring success and there is no way to prove me wrong! Putting your chips on Unsworth however is incredibly brave as every loss is another nail in the coffin of your argument! But I doubt Unsworth will get that far either haha! I just think its a very risky thing we have done, as we just seem to be hoping that the next guy will make things better without really knowing who the next guy even is and he could just as easily make things worse. To be honest I would be happy with Benitez above any of the other candidates though dont think we'll get him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf8312 Posted November 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Matt said: Is this a trick question? Rather paranoid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 No I do see your point. And I have no wish to prove anyone wrong or my own argument right. All I want is for my beloved Everton to excite and entertain me. I would gladly be wrong about everything to see us get back to where we belong again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 41 minutes ago, wolf8312 said: You really brought out the big guns with that one! Sometimes less is more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Ultimately time will tell. In my opinion yes it was right to sack him, not just for the results, but also for the poor performances that created the terrible results. The squad lacked passion, and any semblance of an idea as to how to play. Koeman himself admitted he was lost as to why we were as bad as we were. Previous players he had managed said that he struggled to bring teams out of poor form. This situation could not be allowed to continue, he had enough time to try to resolve things but failed to do so, he had to go. Will our new manager be a success, depends who we get both interim and permanent. As I said time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 i was one of RK biggest backers on here, and even i thought it was time for him to go. he lost the dressing room. the minute we went down a goal the match was over. no effort no fight. meanwhile we just won a match down 2-0 scoring 3 unanswered goals. shows we have the fight under Unsy. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Newty82 said: It wasn't just the results, it was the performances. In about 18 games this season under Koeman, there was negligible improvement in our performances. And you couldn't see where it was going to get any better. Unsworth might not be the answer, and his selections may have caused a bit of a stir, but there was more in the players performances from game 1. Spot on Newty. He might have finished to make it a respectable season but his 18 months showed that he isn't the man to take us forward. We wouldnt break the top 6 with him, let alone the top 4 and he has done nothing to suggest we would have even had a good cup run. Any more time we would have given him would have been a waste of time. markjazzbassist, Matt and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Y E S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Yes most definitely he should have been sacked, he created the team we have today all bar 2 or 3 starters have been his signings that have cost in excess of 200M which for someone like me who has supported the club for 51 years is mind boggling when you look at the budgets of his predecessors, this was meant to be the first season of steady progress but instead it became the reincarnation of the Mike Walker era, my biggest concern was he lacked any idea of how to get the team he brought to play, he was lost completely the worst thing Moshiri could have done was give him another transfer window to blow another 100M plus on players that aren't going to make the team, right decision which should have been made sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 I don't know if it had been mentioned already as I'm a bit late to the party, because I've not been able to get time to log onto the forum for the past couple of days. I think a possible factor into the sacking is the relationship RK had between the players, I don't think many of the players liked him very much as he ran the club like a concentration camp, he was stubborn and played a lot of players in positions they didn't want to play. Furthermore he fell out with some players, which in turn must have made close friends of those players dislike him even more. I feel like the players stopped wanting to play for him awhile back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 Were we right to sack RK? We will never know, was it right at the time? Yes of course it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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