At what point do we say we are in a relegation dogfight?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

After suffering yet another gutless capitulation today, at what point do we acknowledge that we are in the shit ?

 

IMO we are in one right now but others disagree, some say wait until the next 2 games some say after January others say wait until there are only 8 games left

 

So when is the right time?

 

For me this is comfortably the worst Everton side I have ever seen, there is no fight, no passion, no plan

 

The defence is complete shambles, the legs have gone on the only LB in the squad , we don’t have a decent CB at the club and Coleman is still out injured

 

The midfield have gone AWOL and we haven’t got a CF worthy of the name

 

We are not just losing we are getting slaughtered . We have even managed to make Palace and Southampton look like Barcelona and Rail Madrid

 

Moyes must be over the moon that West Ham are next up

 

 

 

 

[sydneyneil]

1 minute ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

After suffering yet another gutless capitulation today, at what point do we acknowledge that we are in the shit ?

 

IMO we are in one right now but others disagree, some say wait until the next 2 games some say after January others say wait until there are only 8 games left

 

So when is the right time?

 

For me this is comfortably the worst Everton side I have ever seen, there is no fight, no passion, no plan

 

The defence is complete shambles, the legs have gone on the only LB in the squad , we don’t have a decent CB at the club and Coleman is still out injured

 

The midfield have gone AWOL and we haven’t got a CF worthy of the name

 

We are not just losing we are getting slaughtered . We have even managed to make Palace and Southampton look like Barcelona and Rail Madrid

 

Moyes must be over the moon that West Ham are next up

 

 

 

 

 

 

I couldnt agree more. As I posted in another thread. This delusional nature amongst Everton fans and the Board is costing us. Everyone thinks that there are easy winnable games in the Premier League. There isn't. I can honestly say that I dont think we have deserved to win any game this season. We have been lucky against Stoke, Bournemouth and Watford. Not one fan could have come away from those games thinking a thoroughly deserved 3 points??? We are being comprehensively beaten and we need a firefighter to come in. Everybody knew that we would get beat by Southampton. They have been shocking all season yet they put 4 past us. 

[Shukes]

I agree we’re in the shit, but I don’t agree we are in a relegation fight in november. 

There are simply too many points to play for.

[pete0]

Until we have a new defense/midfield and enough points to put daylight between us and the bottom three. February at the earliest... Oh wait, you said in. We're already there. 

[markjazzbassist]

3 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I agree we’re in the shit, but I don’t agree we are in a relegation fight in november. 

There are simply too many points to play for.

This for me

[sydneyneil]

So no-one is in a relegation fight then because of the time of year??? We need to fight for points now because the games like West Ham at home could be crucial come the end of the year. Just because it is November, doesn't make the game worth any less. Its still a huge 3 points for either team. 

[Shukes]

5 minutes ago, sydneyneil said:

So no-one is in a relegation fight then because of the time of year??? We need to fight for points now because the games like West Ham at home could be crucial come the end of the year. Just because it is November, doesn't make the game worth any less. Its still a huge 3 points for either team. 

Not saying that. I am saying that there are a lot of points to play for and, in MY opinion, we are good enough to take a lot of those points.

with players coming back and a transfer window to go, relegation isn’t what the team should be thinking off right now.

[MC11]

I think we're certainly in one now. I think the major problem right now is that back four its absolutely shocking. Midfield is poor but it's not helping the lads in behind them. Sort the defence out and I'm pretty sure we can move into safety fairly quickly. 

I personally think Keane, Jagielka and Williams are dogshit the latter two are finished. Keane looks a headless chicken next to either of them. Maybe Mori can come in and bring some sort of solidity/control.

Rooney must play for me a long with Niasse (who'll actually keep us up).

Sigurdsson mustn't play again. Since he's come in we've gone a lot worse. Possibly the worst signing in our history. Baines must also be dropped. 

We wont go down but it'll be close 

[sydneyneil]

1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Not saying that. I am saying that there are a lot of points to play for and, in MY opinion, we are good enough to take a lot of those points.

with players coming back and a transfer window to go, relegation isn’t what the team should be thinking off right now.

We'll agree to disagree. Im shocked at what you are seeing, to think we are good enough to take 28 points right now. It is 60 years since we have conceded this amount of goals at this time of the season. We have the worst defence in the league and we cant score goals. Is that good enough???? Do you see signs of improvement??? If you have answered yes to those questions, id be worried..........

[Shukes]

Just now, sydneyneil said:

We'll agree to disagree. Im shocked at what you are seeing, to think we are good enough to take 28 points right now. It is 60 years since we have conceded this amount of goals at this time of the season. We have the worst defence in the league and we cant score goals. Is that good enough???? Do you see signs of improvement??? If you have answered yes to those questions, id be worried..........

I’m shocked at what I see at the moment, that’s just it. I’m not sitting here accepting it because I think we are actually this bad. I’m in shock at how these players are performing.

Before the season started, I was one of those that had hope and optimism. I can honestly say that I didn’t think we were in for a relegation fight at all.

Reapect to you for calling it.

Because of that, I think we’re underperforming. I think the players we have should be doing better. I do think players coming back will make a difference. This is what gives me a little hope that we can turn it around.

Theres also a small little transfer window coming that gives us a chance to improve.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

For the people saying it too early , the question is when is it the right time?

[sydneyneil]

1 minute ago, Shukes said:

I’m shocked at what I see at the moment, that’s just it. I’m not sitting here accepting it because I think we are actually this bad. I’m in shock at how these players are performing.

Before the season started, I was one of those that had hope and optimism. I can honestly say that I didn’t think we were in for a relegation fight at all.

Reapect to you for calling it.

Because of that, I think we’re underperforming. I think the players we have should be doing better. I do think players coming back will make a difference. This is what gives me a little hope that we can turn it around.

Theres also a small little transfer window coming that gives us a chance to improve.

Yes but we cant just stand by and think we can just get better without any action. We need someone to come in and sort it out. From top down. I mean it was embarrassing watching our bench today. Joe Royle whispering in Dave Unsworth's ear with John Ebbrell and Duncan Ferguson sat there. Are they tryong to recreate our 90s side as a backroom team?

Im surprised Carl Tiler and Craig Short aren't on the phone to Bill asking for a job. This sentiment bullshit needs to stop and we need a complete revamp.

[Shukes]

I never said that at all. 

I agree 100% that something needs doing.

A new manager.

A new Striker.

A change in team formation and personel.

A change in attitude.

I was more embarrassed by what I saw on the pitch. 

[Palfy]

Good question Duncan the truth is I don't know, but a loss to West Ham would probably make me think were in a fight because we you lose games to the teams in and around you you start to slip away.

[Romey 1878]

We aren’t in a relegation dog fight right now. There’s no fight whatsoever and there doesn’t look like there ever will be at this moment in time. 

If we don’t improve that one aspect we’ll go down with a whimper like Sunderland. There’ll be no battle of pushing it until the last game of the season. We’ll simply be gone. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I think we're certainly in one now. I think the major problem right now is that back four its absolutely shocking. Midfield is poor but it's not helping the lads in behind them. Sort the defence out and I'm pretty sure we can move into safety fairly quickly. 
I personally think Keane, Jagielka and Williams are dogshit the latter two are finished. Keane looks a headless chicken next to either of them. Maybe Mori can come in and bring some sort of solidity/control.
Rooney must play for me a long with Niasse (who'll actually keep us up).
Sigurdsson mustn't play again. Since he's come in we've gone a lot worse. Possibly the worst signing in our history. Baines must also be dropped. 
We wont go down but it'll be close 

Personally I think Miri is just as bad as the other three!

[MC11]

8 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Personally I think Miri is just as bad as the other three!

 

I guarantee he's not. Completely underrated. You need to let go of Jagielka nowbas you have been his biggest fan even though he was finished two seasons ago. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I guarantee he's not. Completely underrated. You need to let go of Jagielka nowbas you have been his biggest fan even though he was finished two seasons ago. 

Ha ha give it a rest with the Jags shite will you, I’ve included him in this when I said Mori is as bad as the other 3

 

Just in case you are struggling to get my point , I think ALL four of our senior CB’s are crap

 

 

 

[chicagoblue]

The situation at the club is serious now. Our participation in the premier league will become a serious matter January 31 if we haven't turned the corner. I think we really missed Oumar today.

[Bill]

Got to leave it till after Xmas to make a decision cos there's 25 games to play yet.

Win 10, lose 10, draw 5 and with the points we already have we will have 47 points, which should be enough to sneak into the top half.

Oh yee of little faith,  you have to believe lads.

[nogs]

1 hour ago, sydneyneil said:

I couldnt agree more. As I posted in another thread. This delusional nature amongst Everton fans and the Board is costing us. Everyone thinks that there are easy winnable games in the Premier League. There isn't. I can honestly say that I dont think we have deserved to win any game this season. We have been lucky against Stoke, Bournemouth and Watford. Not one fan could have come away from those games thinking a thoroughly deserved 3 points??? We are being comprehensively beaten and we need a firefighter to come in. Everybody knew that we would get beat by Southampton. They have been shocking all season yet they put 4 past us. 

How exactly is 'the delusional nature amongst some fans' costing us? At the end of the day it doesn't matter one bit what any of us says and thinks, we have no control, that's why we come to places like this to vent and discuss. But it's becoming a fucking vipers nest with people slagging each other left right and centre, as if agreeing with 'their' opinion would somehow change the fortunes of the club. 

[sydneyneil]

9 minutes ago, nogs said:

How exactly is 'the delusional nature amongst some fans' costing us? At the end of the day it doesn't matter one bit what any of us says and thinks, we have no control, that's why we come to places like this to vent and discuss. But it's becoming a fucking vipers nest with people slagging each other left right and centre, as if agreeing with 'their' opinion would somehow change the fortunes of the club. 

I meant it due to the fact that we needed a permanent manager in charge from the start. Not Unsworth. You're right, we are not the decision makers so we can't do anything. We can still influence things though. Names are leaked to the press and reactions are gauged. Most definitely. Id take Big Sam now all day. I hear people on podcasts and forums saying they would stop going the game if he was in charge.

I just think that is short sighted and we should get behind our next manager whoever it is. Because we need it............and in my opinion, we need a firefighter and Big Sam is the best out there and immediately available.

[MC11]

50 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Ha ha give it a rest with the Jags shite will you, I’ve included him in this when I said Mori is as bad as the other 3

 

Just in case you are struggling to get my point , I think ALL four of our senior CB’s are crap

 

 

 

I can pretty much guarantee if I asked you to pick two of the four you'd pick Jagielka as one of the two. He was a disgrace today 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I can pretty much guarantee if I asked you to pick two of the four you'd pick Jagielka as one of the two. He was a disgrace today 

I would certainly pick him ahead of Williams and the way Keane is playing, his confidence is totally shot, I would probably put him ahead of him too ,so you are correct on both counts
But then every player on the pitch was a disgrace today

[Bailey]

We arent yet but if something drastic doesnt change very soon then we will be.

[Matt]

6 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

For the people saying it too early , the question is when is it the right time?

 

End of the transfer window for me. If we’ve not brought in the 2-3 required, then I’ll worry. But 70 odd points still to play for in the meantime

[Chach]

8 hours ago, Shukes said:

I agree we’re in the shit, but I don’t agree we are in a relegation fight in november. 

There are simply too many points to play for.

Where do you see the 9 wins coming from?

Its almost December, if we don't have an amazeballs managerial appointment and our best January transfer window ever we are in a world of shit come the new year.

[Paddock]

I posted a stat in another thread- no team who has conceded 28 goals in their first 13 games has ever stayed up- guess how many we’ve conceded in that time?

[Paddock]

I don’t think some people are quite grasping the gravity of just how shit we are- it was like watching a training ground game yesterday with a bunch of strangers- 3 players trying to tackle one opposition player and being taken out the game with a simple pass- 2 jumping for the same header with no opposition player challenging, central defenders that are miles out of position, players stopping and looking at each other while the opposition chase the ball- it’s absolutely horrendous, it’s not going to suddenly click into place against West Ham- we are fucked big time.

[c1982]

I can find positives about every other club around us e.g Swansea/Huddersfield can shut up shop and grind out a point, Bournemouth can dominate teams at home, Palace have players like Zaha and Townsend who can terrorise defences, West Ham/Stoke/Palace with target men like Carroll, Crouch and Benteke will always pose a threat... then there’s us - a shambles in defence, overrun in the middle, clueless out wide and toothless in attack. We are in a relegation scrap.