At what point do we say we are in a relegation dogfight?

[nogs]

We need five players to stay up, two CBs, a left back, a creative CM assuming Barkley leaves (why wouldn't he?) and a striker. The only other glimmer of hope I had was that Unsworth got handed an unusual run of away games, but after the abysmal last two performances, I can't see us doing what we did against Watford and find our collective bollocks on Wednesday. Not without Niasse anyway. Still,   Goodison can be a big factor in keeping us up, home form has been much better after an awful 2016, crowd has to help keep that momentum going. It's Dogs of War time again. 

What I will say is without major leadership from the board, starting with sorting this shambles of a manager search out and then making the right signings in January, we are very much in a relegation scrap. If we have to keep playing the likes of Keane, Williams, Jags, Gana, Schneiderlin and Mirallas to the end of the season, we will go down. If I had to bet my life on which way it will go at this moment of time, I'd say relegation, it has the feel of a Villa or Newcastle about it. The next two months will prove pivotal in the future of the club, I hope in a positive way. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Paddock said:

I posted a stat in another thread- no team who has conceded 28 goals in their first 13 games has ever stayed up- guess how many we’ve conceded in that time?

22? 

1 hour ago, c1982 said:

I can find positives about every other club around us e.g Swansea/Huddersfield can shut up shop and grind out a point, Bournemouth can dominate teams at home, Palace have players like Zaha and Townsend who can terrorise defences, West Ham/Stoke/Palace with target men like Carroll, Crouch and Benteke will always pose a threat... then there’s us - a shambles in defence, overrun in the middle, clueless out wide and toothless in attack. We are in a relegation scrap.

The thing that gets missed is that a month ago Palace were a shambles, West Ham couldn' fight their way out of a paper bag and Bournemouth were leaking goals for fun! 

We need a new manager ASAP but I would be amazed if the new manager didnt turn our performances around enough to make us less of a shambles. 

[Bill]

I'm getting more and more suicidal as the posts come into this thread, call yourself Evertonians !! The stick that your giving your own team leads me to think that  your all secret redshites. 

Go take a long look in the mirror and have a good look at yourselves.

[Hafnia]

10 minutes ago, Bill said:

I'm getting more and more suicidal as the posts come into this thread, call yourself Evertonians !! The stick that your giving your own team leads me to think that  your all secret redshites. 

Go take a long look in the mirror and have a good look at yourselves.

Its genuine fear Bill. It's shocking how rudderless we are... it' a joke. 

To me the issue stems from the board and has been an issue for far too long. We have a clown of a ceo... a chairman whos ego gets in the way.  The club is a shambles business wise - unprofessional.   

What we are seeing on the pitch is the results of a man given too much money who couldn' be fuckin arsed.

Gareth Barry's leadership has gone.  We have players with no composure or bottle.  I hate Ashley Williams- arrogant and shite.  Schneiderlin is a white flag waving coward. It' awful.

We missed niasse massively yesterday - that says it all. 

[Peter H]

12 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

For the people saying it too early , the question is when is it the right time?

 

Id say that if there is no improvement by the end of January then we are in the relegation dog fight. As some have pointed out, too many points to play for right now. 

We are however in a really really bad place at the moment. No point denying that. 

 

[MC11]

11 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

I would certainly pick him ahead of Williams and the way Keane is playing, his confidence is totally shot, I would probably put him ahead of him too ,so you are correct on both counts
But then every player on the pitch was a disgrace today

 

 

Honestly the sooner he goes the better. Keane has been shocking but so would anybody playing next to Williams and Jagielka. I'd still play him over both. Just watch Jagielka for the first 3 goals absolute shambles.

[aaron]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

I'm getting more and more suicidal as the posts come into this thread, call yourself Evertonians !! The stick that your giving your own team leads me to think that  your all secret redshites. 

Go take a long look in the mirror and have a good look at yourselves.

Do you watch the matches? Not a chance we are finishing in that top ten if this shite carries on.

I love you're optimism but come on Bill this is a lot more serious than you seem to be taking it.

 

 

to answer the question of the thread - we are in one, doesn't matter how many games are to be played etc. the form we are showing is relegation form, we are a couple of points off the relegation zone, therefore we are in a relegation "fight".

[Finn balor]

This is the worst team I’ve seen since the Walter smith days. We are definitely in a battle. We don’t look like shooting never mind scoring and we are a joke at the back. There aren’t many teams worse than us, maybe Newcastle. Huddersfield and Brighton are better teams collectively 

[rubecula]

I mentioned the dread R word a while ago in another thread and was laughed at,  mocking someone who cares is not a solution to problems.

[Sibdane]

We are in a fight at the moment, because if Swansea and West Ham win the next matches then we drop into the relegation zone. We also have the worst goal difference in the league because we can't attack nor can we defend.

The defense needs sorting out first then we need to get a grade A attacker in the January window.

Having Coleman, Barkley, and Bolasie back will be a HUGE boost.

[Bill]

8 minutes ago, tonkaroost said:

We are in a fight at the moment, because if Swansea and West Ham win the next matches then we drop into the relegation zone. We also have the worst goal difference in the league because we can't attack nor can we defend.

The defense needs sorting out first then we need to get a grade A attacker in the January window.

Having Coleman, Barkley, and Bolasie back will be a HUGE boost.

Don't expect too much from these players, they won't be the same.

[Sev]

I can totally understand the emotions some of you are going through and that you're frustrated with the way things are. But talking about relegation at this point is, in my mind, silly.
As I wrote in another post, I saw these hmm issues last season and had high hopes that it would have been taken care of during the summer.These issues would involve certain players, coach staff and a manager, but none of those things were being dealt with.
So I'm not really surprised that things aren't working. Dissapointed, of course. But not surprised.

So we point fingers at certain players and the manager. Yes, that's all the part of closely following and supporting a team. BUT, we should at all times be behind the club and in objective ways discuss the difficult situations that any club sees from time to time.
So personally I don't see, at this point, any relegation. We're Evertonians, damn it.

 

[nogs]

How about when we appoint Sam Allardyce as manager? 

[c1982]

8 hours ago, Bill said:

I'm getting more and more suicidal as the posts come into this thread, call yourself Evertonians !! The stick that your giving your own team leads me to think that  your all secret redshites. 

Go take a long look in the mirror and have a good look at yourselves.

I go every week and give my full support - I think it’s counterproductive to boo your own team. A forum is totally different though... it’d probably do the players/management good to see the worry/displeasure in most fans - it may (not likely) give some a kick up the arse. I really am worried as this is the worst Everton I’ve seen since the Walker days. I’ll be there supporting on Wednesday night but to be honest I am disgusted by what I’ve seen this season. So yes, I will use this forum as a platform to get a few worries off my chest rather than boo or throw abuse at players/management at the game.

[rubecula]

1 hour ago, nogs said:

How about when we appoint Sam Allardyce as manager? 

we will not get him 

[Palfy]

We are in a dogfight now which is fair enough the thing that slightly concerns me is that we don't have enough hounds in the pack to win, so January window is when we can address that and then I'm sure we will be alright.

[Quinn31]

Offer Celtic a gazillion pounds for Moussa Dembele, get Batshuayi on loan.

Then get Shaw from Man U or Tierney from Celtic as well. 

Find a centerback or two.

[rubecula]

Get Messi and Bale for impact from the bench too

[nogs]

9 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

Offer Celtic a gazillion pounds for Moussa Dembele, get Batshuayi on loan.

Then get Shaw from Man U or Tierney from Celtic as well. 

Find a centerback or two.

I'd rather get Sessegnon from Fulham than Shaw. Absolute star in the making, if we paid 20million for him we'd double it in two years. Sick of signing Manure rejects. 

[Quinn31]

1 minute ago, nogs said:

I'd rather get Sessegnon from Fulham than Shaw. Absolute star in the making, if we paid 20million for him we'd double it in two years. Sick of signing Manure rejects. 

Think he's a good one with a bright future. I will make the point that he is real young and not peaked yet and we are in a bad way.

[nogs]

5 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

Think he's a good one with a bright future. I will make the point that he is real young and not peaked yet and we are in a bad way.

Nope but the Championship is a tough, physical league and he's on fire in that division. Hat-trick at Sheff Utd wasn't it, who are third? 

[Quinn31]

2 minutes ago, nogs said:

Nope but the Championship is a tough, physical league and he's on fire in that division. Hat-trick at Sheff Utd wasn't it, who are third? 

Shit - didn't know that.

[Paddock]

14 minutes ago, rubecula said:

Get Messi and Bale for impact from the bench too

We will and we are Rubes.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Honestly the sooner he goes the better. Keane has been shocking but so would anybody playing next to Williams and Jagielka. I'd still play him over both. Just watch Jagielka for the first 3 goals absolute shambles.

I totally agree that he shouldn’t be anywhere near the starting XI , his legs have gone. I just think they are all shite

[johnh]

The biggest concern is the complete lack of fight by most (not all) of the squad.  I watched the highlights of the Southampton game. Mirrallas clean through,  only the goalie to beat and a heavy touch rolls the ball into the goalies arms, just like a back-pass.  The worrying thing was the complete lack of expression on Mirrallas face.  He screwed up a really good chance and he didn't seem bothered.

[Newty82]

I have my own view on when the relegation dog fight begins and the reality sets in.

Generally, the earliest the first confirmed team to be relegated is around game 33 - 34. That's why I don't look at who could be relegated until around game 25 - 30. Simply because so many things can happen. By then you get a real picture of where teams are, the table tends to split into 3 sectors, January has been and you know who's been sold and bought, you know who's been fired n hired, you know more on how squads are shaped up (injuries, suspensions etc).

Now it's pretty bloody obvious that IF we keep playing as we are, IF we keep conceding so many goals and IF this run of form carries on, then when that period of games comes, we'll still be where we are and too right we are then in a fight to stay up. And I'll be fuckin gutted to be there.

But before that, we have a new manager to come in, who should bring a plan, some passion, some fight, some organisation, and a January transfer window.

To me, this is reality. This is my view. This is how I see football. If you feel that we are doomed, then that's your view. If you feel that we will stay down where we are all season, then of course you will feel that we are in a relegation fight. And that's your way, fair enough.

But we approach things differently guys, and when it comes to things like this, where we are basically trying to predict the future, no one is defintively correct...you might end up being in a few months time, and time will tell. So don't look down your nose at people who see it differently. It is what it is and we choose to enjoy the game in our own ways.

I tell you what though, and I can guarantee this from past experience, if we do sort our shit out and go on a good run, this forum will be pretty much dead.

 

[Shukes]

Good post Newty. 

Its hard to answer people when the response is always the same old... if we keep playing like this..... well of course, we’ll also get relegated if play 15 players every match at once!

but to say we’re in a relegation fight now suggests if we lose the next three, it’s over. There is so long to go right now. A transfer window, a new manager, players coming back, different training to try and different tactics to try. 

Were in deep, but there’s plenty of opportunity to get out of it also.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I have my own view on when the relegation dog fight begins and the reality sets in.
Generally, the earliest the first confirmed team to be relegated is around game 33 - 34. That's why I don't look at who could be relegated until around game 25 - 30. Simply because so many things can happen. By then you get a real picture of where teams are, the table tends to split into 3 sectors, January has been and you know who's been sold and bought, you know who's been fired n hired, you know more on how squads are shaped up (injuries, suspensions etc).
Now it's pretty bloody obvious that IF we keep playing as we are, IF we keep conceding so many goals and IF this run of form carries on, then when that period of games comes, we'll still be where we are and too right we are then in a fight to stay up. And I'll be fuckin gutted to be there.
But before that, we have a new manager to come in, who should bring a plan, some passion, some fight, some organisation, and a January transfer window.
To me, this is reality. This is my view. This is how I see football. If you feel that we are doomed, then that's your view. If you feel that we will stay down where we are all season, then of course you will feel that we are in a relegation fight. And that's your way, fair enough.
But we approach things differently guys, and when it comes to things like this, where we are basically trying to predict the future, no one is defintively correct...you might end up being in a few months time, and time will tell. So don't look down your nose at people who see it differently. It is what it is and we choose to enjoy the game in our own ways.
I tell you what though, and I can guarantee this from past experience, if we do sort our shit out and go on a good run, this forum will be pretty much dead.
 

So you acknowledge that by game 33 a teams fate could be sealed , but you wouldn’t say they were in a relegation fight until game 30!!

Do you not think it’s a little late by then?

[Bill]

Some teams have escaped relegation in the final game. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Some teams have escaped relegation in the final game. 

And every single one of them has been in a relegation fight long before that