Goodbye To The Gravy Guzzler

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

As am I. 7 points with 50 points less to play for is a worse situation that 5 points and 80 [emoji4] The "higher up the table" argument isn'ttt relevant, the number of points is. If you're more reassured that we are a grand total of 2 points better off (in terms of being above the bottom 3) after another 12 or so games following Allardyce took over, then I give up. 
How is "The less room for manoeuvre" argument reassuring?! It applies to us too, and the worry is that our form from the last 6 games puts us in the bottom 3 whilst teams below us are improving their form? 
Finding it rather amusing that I'm the doom-merchant after trying to be so positive for so long, and you've gone from negative to the champion of hope  

Don’t confuse it with hope , I still think we are shite and that we are far from safe , I’m just less worried than I was when we were only 4 points off the bottom of the table

[Bailey]

5 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

No not at all

The argument is whether or not we are in a more precarious position now or before Allardyce was appointed and he was appointed before the West Han game

What’s to say that his presence in the stands that night didn’t give the players the lift they needed to beat West Ham?

 

Come off it Dunc... your previous point alluded to you only talking about facts and now you are opining that Sams presence was the reason we won despite the fact being that it was Unsworths team & tactics. 

It' not like Allardyces presence in the stands has been of much help since then either! 😂

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Come off it Dunc... your previous point alluded to you only talking about facts and now you are opining that Sams presence was the reason we won despite the fact being that it was Unsworths team & tactics. 
It' not like Allardyces presence in the stands has been of much help since then either! [emoji23]

The facts are he was appointed, if not officially unveiled , before the West Ham game

[Formby]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I really do get that people aren’t happy with Allardyce I just struggle to see why people believe Unsworth was the answer

 

 

 

Absolutely. The rose-tinted look back at Unsworth's games in charge is baffling. He wasn't up to the job. That said, which manager would be with this group of players?

[Formby]

10 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Come off it Dunc... your previous point alluded to you only talking about facts and now you are opining that Sams presence was the reason we won despite the fact being that it was Unsworths team & tactics. 

It' not like Allardyces presence in the stands has been of much help since then either! 😂

You think it had zero effect on the players, then? They weren't bothered by the new manager being in the stands?

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, Matt said:

As am I. 7 points with 50 points less to play for is a worse situation that 5 points and 80  The "higher up the table" argument isn'ttt relevant, the number of points is. If you're more reassured that we are a grand total of 2 points better off (in terms of being above the bottom 3) after another 12 or so games following Allardyce took over, then I give up. 

How is "The less room for manoeuvre" argument reassuring?! It applies to us too, and the worry is that our form from the last 6 games puts us in the bottom 3 whilst teams below us are improving their form? 

Finding it rather amusing that I'm the doom-merchant after trying to be so positive for so long, and you've gone from negative to the champion of hope  

We may only be 7 points from a relegation spot but to counter react that we are only 5 points from 7th and a possible European spot, I think the best position we've been in since the season got going was 8 points from relegation spot and 4 points from 7th, so where's the big problem we are destined for mid table mediocrity, let's just get rid of Walsh and Allardyce and move on.

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, Formby said:

You think it had zero effect on the players, then? They weren't bothered by the new manager being in the stands?

The stability certainly had an impact (which has been argued that if Unsworth had had that backing, the performances could’ve been better), but it was still Unsworth who did training, match prep, picked the squad, made subs, etc. The West Ham game was down to Unsworth, that can’t really be argued against!

[Hafnia]

The club is a mess. Koeman was wrong, unsworth was wrong and allardyce is wrong. 

Allardyce like koeman is insulting the fans intelligence. A pair of slobs who I don' think are putting their heart into the job.

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

We may only be 7 points from a relegation spot but to counter react that we are only 5 points from 7th and a possible European spot, I think the best position we've been in since the season got going was 8 points from relegation spot and 4 points from 7th, so where's the big problem we are destined for mid table mediocrity, let's just get rid of Walsh and Allardyce and move on.

All that shows to me is that in a couple of games you go from relegation candidates to Europa League hopefuls. Trouble is, because things are so tight, it goes both ways and our form is getting worse whilst some below us are getting better

[Matt]

23 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Don’t confuse it with hope , I still think we are shite and that we are far from safe , I’m just less worried than I was when we were only 4 points off the bottom of the table

 

And i find that baffling for all the reasons I’ve stated  

[Paddock]

The way he’s talking about the players- slagging them off etc I’ll he surprised if any of them perform for him. The whole situation is just a huge mess- poor appointments, poor recruitment, poor transfers, poor decion making, poor everything. We just seem to be stumbling from one disaster to another with no direction- Allerdyce was a bad appointment, the fans will never accept him bith himself and the players know he wont be here for the long term so are both looking to hit the minimum requirement and that’s to stay up.

Whole fucking thing is a complete mess and the blame lies with many parties. From Moshiri and the board to 2 managerial teams all the way to the half arsed performances from the players. The club doesn’t deserve the fans they really don’t.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

The way he’s talking about the players- slagging them off etc I’ll he surprised if any of them perform for him. The whole situation is just a huge mess- poor appointments, poor recruitment, poor transfers, poor decion making, poor everything. We just seem to be stumbling from one disaster to another with no direction- Allerdyce was a bad appointment, the fans will never accept him bith himself and the players know he wont be here for the long term so are both looking to hit the minimum requirement and that’s to stay up.
Whole fucking thing is a complete mess and the blame lies with many parties. From Moshiri and the board to 2 managerial teams all the way to the half arsed performances from the players. The club doesn’t deserve the fans they really don’t.

Amen to that!

Steve Walsh is the common denominator in all of this so IMO he has to go halves on the taxi with Sam

[Palfy]

15 minutes ago, Paddock said:

The way he’s talking about the players- slagging them off etc I’ll he surprised if any of them perform for him. The whole situation is just a huge mess- poor appointments, poor recruitment, poor transfers, poor decion making, poor everything. We just seem to be stumbling from one disaster to another with no direction- Allerdyce was a bad appointment, the fans will never accept him bith himself and the players know he wont be here for the long term so are both looking to hit the minimum requirement and that’s to stay up.

Whole fucking thing is a complete mess and the blame lies with many parties. From Moshiri and the board to 2 managerial teams all the way to the half arsed performances from the players. The club doesn’t deserve the fans they really don’t.

The concerning thing when it comes to the players, besides as you rightly pointed out they act like they don't give a shit, is that they have come here for big transfer fees and in most cases far above what they are actually worth, now with big transfer fees comes long and lucrative contracts, for me Moshiri has been a fool and he as proved the old adage a fool is easily parted from his money.

[Paddock]

9 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

Amen to that!

Steve Walsh is the common denominator in all of this so IMO he has to go halves on the taxi with Sam

 

 

Yep- for me, they both go in May- not halfway through the summer. Last game of the season out the way ship them out get the new man in straight away. Nobody is sold until he has them back in training and has spoken to them all and we start again from there. 

One thing for certain is we’re in that much of a mess it wont be a quick fix, we’ve regressed 3 years imo and it’ll take at least 2 to get us right again. Horrible situation.

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Yep- for me, they both go in May- not halfway through the summer. Last game of the season out the way ship them out get the new man in straight away. Nobody is sold until he has them back in training and has spoken to them all and we start again from there. 

One thing for certain is we’re in that much of a mess it wont be a quick fix, we’ve regressed 3 years imo and it’ll take at least 2 to get us right again. Horrible situation.

Fuck me you know how to depress the fuck out of someone, say something positive Pad please we need the love 

[Bill]

58 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Fuck me you know how to depress the fuck out of someone, say something positive Pad please we need the love 

We'll be ok once we get a decent manager in, this squad has got some very talented players in it but  they are not performing, and what baffles me is why not..

[MikeO]

4 hours ago, Formby said:

You think it had zero effect on the players, then? They weren't bothered by the new manager being in the stands?

I think it probably spurred them to a decent performance in the hope that someone might come in with a bid for them in the window; seems more plausible to me than excitement about being managed by a clueless lump of lard.

[Paddock]

4 hours ago, Bill said:

We'll be ok once we get a decent manager in, this squad has got some very talented players in it but  they are not performing, and what baffles me is why not..

3 different managers have failed to get a tune out of them up to know. What makes you think a different manager will? 

[Cornish Steve]

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

The concerning thing when it comes to the players, besides as you rightly pointed out they act like they don't give a shit, is that they have come here for big transfer fees and in most cases far above what they are actually worth, now with big transfer fees comes long and lucrative contracts, for me Moshiri has been a fool and he as proved the old adage a fool is easily parted from his money.

This falls fairly and squarely on the manager. He's the leader. He's the one who inspires, who encourages, who cajoles, who praises, who sympathizes, who gets everyone to pull together for the good of the team. It comes with the job. Blaming players is, quite simply, pathetic and abrogating responsibility. If you must resort to blaming your team, you've failed as a leader. It's as simple as that.

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, Paddock said:

3 different managers have failed to get a tune out of them up to know. What makes you think a different manager will? 

Two failed. The third wasn't really given a chance, despite showing signs of turning things around.

[Bailey]

8 hours ago, Formby said:

You think it had zero effect on the players, then? They weren't bothered by the new manager being in the stands?

Its irrelevant what I think as I was arguing about facts. Fact is Unsworth was manager and Allardyce wasn't. Everything else is guess work because if you believe that the decision being made was key, then you can also argue that if the decision was made to appoint Unsworth straight away then he would have experienced the same lift and therefore obtained more points along the way. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Are Everton slackening off due to uncertainty over Allardyce?
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-players-slackening-due-uncertainty-14258935#ICID=ios_EchoNewsApp_AppShare_Click_Other

[Quinn31]

4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Two failed. The third wasn't really given a chance, despite showing signs of turning things around.

It would appear the PE teacher doesn't fancy a chance since he just turned down Oxford.

[Sparks FC]

I'm not really sure why people think Unsworth had us looking up. His best managerial performance came after his replacement was announced, where days earlier Southampton put 4 past us. 2 days prior to that we conceded 5 at home. I wasn't watching us and thinking potential, it looked like we'd lose every game at that point just prior to West Ham.

Granted I'm not thinking potential now either, but I think it's a bit revisionist to think there was more hope at any point in the season than now. We've got 12 games coming up, 2 of those against top 4 sides at home. Right now is the best run we'll have all season, and being an eternal optimist I really hope behind the scenes the players, staff and Sam are trying to sort their shit and actually finish this season with some modicum of respect for the club, fans and themselves.

[Wiggytop]

10 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

This falls fairly and squarely on the manager. He's the leader. He's the one who inspires, who encourages, who cajoles, who praises, who sympathizes, who gets everyone to pull together for the good of the team. It comes with the job. Blaming players is, quite simply, pathetic and abrogating responsibility. If you must resort to blaming your team, you've failed as a leader. It's as simple as that.

Nailed it on the head for me here Steve

[EFC-Paul]

10 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Two failed. The third wasn't really given a chance, despite showing signs of turning things around.

How was he turning it around? We looked piss poor in every game bar his last against a very poor and out of sorts West Ham which some would argue having the new manager in the stands could have given some of the lads a physiological kick up the arse 

Watford we got very lucky to come away with three points and bar those two wins we were absolutely terrible

Played 8 L-5 W-2 D-1 isn'ttt showing any signs of turning it around 

[Hafnia]

10 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Two failed. The third wasn't really given a chance, despite showing signs of turning things around.

Unsworth failed. how difficult is it to understand that? 

We beat a shocking west ham but were destroyed by an awful Southampton... unsworth wasn't the answer.

I was all for unsworth. But he wasn't good enough. His subs and selections were poor. He's a nice guy and all tga  but no.... not ready. 

[Romey 1878]

6 hours ago, Quinn31 said:

It would appear the PE teacher doesn't fancy a chance since he just turned down Oxford.

Steve Walsh turned Oxford down?

[Hafnia]

Whilst we are at it.... I couldn't give a crap that fat Sam was partial to a bung or that he's a prick and that unsworth is a top lad.  

Fact is.... neither are good enough for the job. 

I would sooner have a good honourable guy managing our club but above all they need to be good at what they do.

Anyone seen the film Roadhouse?..... our club is the double deuce. At the moment it's chaos, it needs cleaning up big time. Employee's taking the piss and stealing a living, customers fighting amongst themselves, we need a serious clear out and that happens when we identify all of those responsible for contributing to it's pathetic state. 

[Formby]

11 hours ago, Bailey said:

Its irrelevant what I think as I was arguing about facts. Fact is Unsworth was manager and Allardyce wasn't. Everything else is guess work because if you believe that the decision being made was key, then you can also argue that if the decision was made to appoint Unsworth straight away then he would have experienced the same lift and therefore obtained more points along the way. 

Not disputing your facts; just questioning whether you really thought an incoming manager watching from the stands has no effect on a team's performance. Difficult to quantify, admittedly, but certainly not out of the question, I would think.