Goodbye To The Gravy Guzzler

[Cornish Steve]

44 minutes ago, nutmegwolf203 said:

Is that better man management?

There's a difference between inviting everyone to an event and publicly rewarding those who deserve it versus not inviting some to an event. It's the difference between a carrot and a stick. Those who are recognized feel valued; those who are not recognized feel the need to improve so they're in the limelight next year. Those not invited would simply be ticked off.

[Shukes]

I said when he came in that he had the easiest job in the premier league. 

The quality of players is there. Yes we need to replace a few, but generally the core is there. Someone pointed out that he put out exactly the same team as Koeman.

The difference is that he has tweaked the system and motivated the players.

I can see what Steve and Matt are thinking. Keep that motivation going and keep the team heading in the same direction. Pulling the Christmas party ... could, and I said could, have the opposite effect.

[pete0]

6 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

after you'd busted your gut to succeed this year in a company doing poorly because of an incompetent CEO and a few lazy and overpaid recent hires? You'd wonder why you bothered and probably look elsewhere.

It's collective. You can't solely blame the manager for players not even putting a shift in. 

Of the seniors only Pickford, DCL, and Rooney have put a shift in every week. 

Schneiderlin and Mirallas kerfuffle. Gana all smiles in defeat. Williams over weight, and the whole neck four giving Pickford over time. Sigurdssen playing in the shadows.

The kids and Lennon deserve some credit for helping carry the first teamers. But the majority our starting squad need to pull their finger out, recent weeks show they are now. Postponing the do potentially keeps them focused. You shouldn't reward failure especially when it's due to a lack of effort. 

[Shukes]

Christmas is a national... world wide celebration, not a reward.

[pete0]

8 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Christmas is a national... world wide celebration, not a reward.

Alladyce isn'tt the grinch, they still have get yo celebrate Christmas they just don't get a party until the workload has died down.

I don't have a Christmas do from work. I'm paying to go to lunch with my colleagues today, and there's nothing to stop the players from doing the same. 

[c1982]

If anything, he’s doing the players a favour. Despite our recent turn around we’ve still massively under achieved after a huge summer spend. Everton players celebrating on a night out after this would be a tabloid pap’s dream shot/story. I imagine the players will recognise that actually their manager is protecting them from the unnecessary added attention.

[nogs]

If you're a pro footballer in the UK, Christmas is about playing football. It wasn't that long ago they played on Christmas Day! Of course, it also wasn't unusual to go out and get absolutely arse holed the night before a match, but those days are gone. I don't have a problem with Allardyce cancelling a party. These are massively well paid professionals who lead very comfortable, cosseted lives. They have a season to rescue after three months plus of utter garbage. It sends out a message that that won't be tolerated anymore. 

[Matt]

10 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Man management at its best for me, lets them know they’ve not been good enough and that there is a new sheriff in town now who won’t accept it.

They can have their party once they’ve earned it

4 wins and a draw, 1 goal conceded. Is that not a sign that they're earning it? Surely under his tenure, we have been good enough despite it being boring as fuck to watch? It's just a petty "show them who's boss" tactic and I don't see the benefit at all - they clearly already know.

It's a similar question as to the "when will people realise we'll be / won't be relegated"? Until when do we wait to judge them?

 

[Romey 1878]

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/12/13/allardyces-verdict

[Bill]

I see he mentions Barkley as "coming Back" I don't know in what respect he means.

[Paddock]

11 minutes ago, Bill said:

I see he mentions Barkley as "coming Back" I don't know in what respect he means.

He means from injury- what other way could you take that?

[Bill]

Well he said the squad would be strengthened when he comes back, I know it was from injury but does he think he will sign a contract and stay.??

Cos if he goes he won't strengthen the squad at all.

[Chach]

21 hours ago, Matt said:

No idea what that means. 

 

[Newty82]

14 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

How would you react if your Christmas party and bonus were canceled, in a very public manner, after you'd busted your gut to succeed this year in a company doing poorly because of an incompetent CEO and a few lazy and overpaid recent hires? You'd wonder why you bothered and probably look elsewhere.

When you manage a team, you build team spirit and reward progress. The manager's decision to cancel a celebration hurts everyone indiscriminately - those who've played well to earn recent wins and those who put in the effort even during the down times. These players deserve to be appreciated, not branded with everyone else as naughty little schoolkids. Punish the likes of Schneiderlin, who's shown little desire other than to secure red cards. Don't punish Niasse and DC-L and Kenny and Holgate and Pickford, and don't play the heavy-handed misery at Christmas season. If you go to the dressing room now, I'm sure you'll hear the name Scrooge a lot.

Frankly, this is basic man-management.

It hasnt been cancelled, it's been postponed until a more convenient time. The players had it booked for Monday, after the Swansea game. If they go out and get smashed, they aint going to recover very well from the game, are they? So that would mean a cancelled training session. We play Chelsea on Sat 23rd at 12.30. Doesn't give us much time to prepare for that game, does it? Then we play away on Tues 26th at West Brom. So next week we have to prepare for 2 games as Sunday 24th will be light, if any, training and Monday is Xmas day. Not to mention we are then away at Bournemouth Sat 30th before being back at home vs United on Jan 1st.

Are you able to see what's happening there? This isn'tt normal business Steve. Its not an office. This is professional football. As far as I'm concerned the party has been poorly planned in the first place.

Have you actually read what Allardyce said?

Here it is....

“It is not needed at the moment and because of the position we were in when I first arrived here,” Allardyce said.

“I told the players I will pay them back when they come out of Christmas and into January in a better position. They can go and socialise at the right time. As a manager it was very important that the players, in today’s environment with social media, were not seen to be out enjoying themselves too much.

“They have turned things around already for me but [the festive schedule] is our biggest demand. It is probably not overall because a lot has been demanded already with their season starting in July with Europe, and the injuries. A lot has been demanded of the players and Christmas will be the same.

“The party is off until there is a period of time when we are in a very good position and I can tell the lads they can have the relaxing time that they deserve. But whatever they do I don’t want a phone call telling me they’ve been in trouble or they will be in even more trouble with me.”

And if you think he is such a poor man manager, read what he said about foreign players settling in.

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

How would you react if your Christmas party and bonus were canceled, in a very public manner, after you'd busted your gut to succeed this year in a company doing poorly because of an incompetent CEO and a few lazy and overpaid recent hires? You'd wonder why you bothered and probably look elsewhere.
When you manage a team, you build team spirit and reward progress. The manager's decision to cancel a celebration hurts everyone indiscriminately - those who've played well to earn recent wins and those who put in the effort even during the down times. These players deserve to be appreciated, not branded with everyone else as naughty little schoolkids. Punish the likes of Schneiderlin, who's shown little desire other than to secure red cards. Don't punish Niasse and DC-L and Kenny and Holgate and Pickford, and don't play the heavy-handed misery at Christmas season. If you go to the dressing room now, I'm sure you'll hear the name Scrooge a lot.
Frankly, this is basic man-management.

First point is he hasn’t cancelled anything , he’s told them they can have it at a later date when we are out of trouble and the fixtures aren’t piling up

The Christmas period is crucial to our season , we can’t afford to screw thus up

Putting it into my line of work , it’s like taking an underperforming ships company to war in the Falklands and the lads had a piss up planned in Rio on the way down . If you were skipper would you say yeah crack on lads Fill your boots .Or would you say sorry lads leave is cancelled for now , let’s get out shit in one sock, win the war then hit Rio on the way home , and I will even throw some money behind the bar ?

I do agree it’s basic man management though , and Big SAM got it spot on

[Quinn31]

4 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

First point is he hasn’t cancelled anything , he’s told them they can have it at a later date when we are out of trouble and the fixtures aren’t piling up

The Christmas period is crucial to our season , we can’t afford to screw thus up

Putting it into my line of work , it’s like taking an underperforming ships company to war in the Falklands and the lads had a piss up planned in Rio on the way down . If you were skipper would you say yeah crack on lads Fill your boots .Or would you say sorry lads leave is cancelled for now , let’s get out shit in one sock, win the war then hit Rio on the way home , and I will even throw some money behind the bar ?

I do agree it’s basic man management though , and Big SAM got it spot on

 

That is a hell of an analogy. A TT classic, in my opinion.

You win.

[MikeO]

Just now, Quinn31 said:

That is a hell of an analogy. A TT classic, in my opinion.

You win.

Apart from the shitting in the sock thing, not overly keen on that.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

4 wins and a draw, 1 goal conceded. Is that not a sign that they're earning it? Surely under his tenure, we have been good enough despite it being boring as fuck to watch? It's just a petty "show them who's boss" tactic and I don't see the benefit at all - they clearly already know.
It's a similar question as to the "when will people realise we'll be / won't be relegated"? Until when do we wait to judge them?
 

Earning it - yes definitely, they’ve shown a lot of fight and it doses well

Earned - definitely not

[Newty82]

49 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Apart from the shitting in the sock thing, not overly keen on that.

What line of work is it that you shit in a sock?!

Bloody hell Dunc!!!

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

What line of work is it that you shit in a sock?!

Bloody hell Dunc!!!

A con in Strangeways would shit in a sock and some con's think it's a career, and apparently the hours are good.

[markjazzbassist]

love it dunc

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

love it dunc

You love a shit filled sock? Each to their own I suppose.

Internet is full of stuff for everyone (won't be googling personally).

[markjazzbassist]

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

You love a shit filled sock? Each to their own I suppose.

Internet is full of stuff for everyone (won't be googling personally).

i love the analogy.  the shit sock went over my head but i get the gist of it.  welcome analogy compared to Haf's cars ones 

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

the shit sock went over my head

Best place for it! You wouldn't want it in your face.

[Matt]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Earning it - yes definitely, they’ve shown a lot of fight and it doses well

Earned - definitely not

 

So end of the season then?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

So end of the season then?

How about exactly when Allardyce said, when we are out of the shit and the fixtures aren’t piling up?

[Newty82]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

So end of the season then?

Ere, excuse me, shitting in sock talk going on here.

[Matt]

Just now, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

How about exactly when Allardyce said, when we are out of the shit and the fixtures aren’t piling up?

 

 

We’re out of the shit aren’t we?

just don’t like it. It’s a petty show of “power” in my books and I’ve been on the end of stunts like this at work. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

We’re out of the shit aren’t we?
just don’t like it. It’s a petty show of “power” in my books and I’ve been on the end of stunts like this at work. 

IMHO no we are not

[Newty82]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

We’re out of the shit aren’t we?

just don’t like it. It’s a petty show of “power” in my books and I’ve been on the end of stunts like this at work. 

Go back to my reply to Steve.

So you'd like us to have it on Monday night with the following fixtures?