Goodbye To The Gravy Guzzler

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Quinn31 said:

I would never suggest anyone on here loves Everton more or less than I do - you all are crazy enough to spend time posting and venting about the club on here as I am. 

Haha it’s true we are a special breed.

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, Quinn31 said:

I knew you sympathized with those diving fairies. 

Unfortunately for you, sports are judged by results first and foremost. If aesthetics are your primary desire, I suggest becoming an art enthusiast. If you purely want entertainment, may I suggest watching a movie. I want to win.

I enjoy attacking football and take little joy in seeing my entire team sit on our own 18 yard box, but the most joy I take is when my team gets 3 points and finishes the season in a high position. My team succeeding matters more to me than anything else. I'm sure Wigan fans and Rayo Vallecano fans loved the free flowing football they played under Roberto Martinez and Paco Jemez, but I'm sure that more of them would've sacrificed some on style to preserve their top flight status. 

Screaming your head off about the style we play being shite when were in the relegation zone in late October while we now could potentially take a European place is short-sighted, irrational, and steeped in emotion (Lots of emotional talkers on here, rather than rationalists). Big Sam could rescue the season and take us into a European place, leaving us in a much better position to recruit the right players and have another go at it in 2018/2019... Finally, I'll point out that so many posters on here think it's okay to declare a final judgment on a player or a manager after 5 matches when that is way too small of a sample size. I'll hold out on declaring a final opinion Allardyce until March or April at the earliest when I've seen enough to be a fair arbitrator of his managerial ability.

As for my second highlighted point- The best Everton football I've season was late 11/12 (Everton 3 Newcastle 1), early 12/13 (Everton 3 Villa 0), and Moyes' final few matches here (Everton 2 WHU 0). The team was bent towards attacking but very direct and quick in its build up while we still had a physical presence, the high work rate of a typical Moyes' team, and plenty of 1-2's and great passing. 

As for parking the bus - depends on the match, but it truly is the best way to get a result against the Shite. They have pace and are ruthless on the counter but not nearly good enough in build up play and creative passing to break down a condensed side. They will hammer goals home in 3 on 3 break aways but are relatively tame to any side with defensive solidarity.  

Now, I think we all here should pitch in to get Mark a Bein sports tv subscription so he has tv rights to the Spanish league and some of the south american leagues - you'll like the football a lot more there. I'll also suggest Bundesliga on Fox - lots of attacking play there. 

I agree with you fundamentally. We need to pick up points, especially in the position we were in and Sam will be loved for as long as we pick up points. 

Howeve the quality of football has been fucking shocking and as soon as the points dry up, everyone will be back on the Internet and phone ins wanting rid. 

For me it all comes down to ambition. At the moment our ambition is to stabilise and Sam is doing that. As soon as our ambition becomes more than that a new man will be in.

[barryj]

Never realised big Sam could envoke such passion in posts! See he’s not all that bad (except his style of play 😏)

[Quinn31]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

I agree with you fundamentally. We need to pick up points, especially in the position we were in and Sam will be loved for as long as we pick up points. 

Howeve the quality of football has been fucking shocking and as soon as the points dry up, everyone will be back on the Internet and phone ins wanting rid. 

For me it all comes down to ambition. At the moment our ambition is to stabilise and Sam is doing that. As soon as our ambition becomes more than that a new man will be in.

I am seriously skeptical that he is the man to take us forward. His style isn'tt attractive, for sure, however part of me feels bad for the man having had a very successful managerial career but not gotten a true shot at a club with the resources tor really go to Europe.

Even if he does a great job, we will have a big decision come May with regards to giving him the keys in 2018/2019. I couldn't see him managing us beyond that unless he got us into the top six, and him getting to manage in 18/19 is a big if.

[rubecula]

2 hours ago, barryj said:

Never realised big Sam could envoke such passion in posts! See he’s not all that bad (except his style of play 😏)

not really bothered by the style of play just now, before Koeman left  I was praying for a solid team.  I would be hypocritical to pick fault now.

[Shukes]

If some of th players we are being linked with materialise, then maybe Sam isn’t the one way street we all think he is.

Some of these players could really make a difference for us. Tosun and Nzonzi alone would make a massive difference.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

If some of th players we are being linked with materialise, then maybe Sam isn’t the one way street we all think he is.
Some of these players could really make a difference for us. Tosun and Nzonzi alone would make a massive difference.

His safety first brand of football has largely been a result of circumstance rather than Allardyce proffered style of play. Most of the jobs he’s had he has been brought in with a specific task of saving them from relegation , and on every occasion he has done that job successfully

People who think his sides can only play one way are either too young to remember his Bolton side or have vey short memories

That side that contained the likes of Campo, Djorkaeff and Ockocha knew how to play good attacking football

[JimmytheJimster]

41 minutes ago, Shukes said:

If some of th players we are being linked with materialise, then maybe Sam isn’t the one way street we all think he is.

Some of these players could really make a difference for us. Tosun and Nzonzi alone would make a massive difference.

With you on this one, let's see after January. The reason he plays so defensive maybe because we have no creativity or goals. How many of us hoped to win one game under Koeman, let alone go on a unbeaten run.

[Romey 1878]

48 minutes ago, Shukes said:

If some of th players we are being linked with materialise, then maybe Sam isn’t the one way street we all think he is.

Some of these players could really make a difference for us. Tosun and Nzonzi alone would make a massive difference.

I'm not entirely sold on Nzonzi. He was a pretty poor player for Blackburn and Stoke, and has looked good for Sevilla in a league where you're given a lot more time on the ball.

Hopefully it's more a case of him having matured as a player though, rather than just looking good in better circumstances provided for him,

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

His safety first brand of football has largely been a result of circumstance rather than Allardyce proffered style of play. Most of the jobs he’s had he has been brought in with a specific task of saving them from relegation , and on every occasion he has done that job successfully

People who think his sides can only play one way are either too young to remember his Bolton side or have vey short memories

That side that contained the likes of Campo, Djorkaeff and Ockocha knew how to play good attacking football


 

And how long ago was that? Yes they had some good players but I don' remember them playing attractive football. I don' remember watching too many games of theirs though in fairness.

The caveat is that he hasn't been at many clubs where he has been able to build a squad over a period of time, but when he has had that potential he has been sacked  (Newcastle and West Ham - both played pretty crap football). The other teams he has had a chance to build he has largely walked away from. 

[Hafnia]

Allardyce is a stop gap. 

The expensive ferrari we bought wouldn't even start never mind compete. So let's not get too pinickity  about standards of play etc. 

I expect to see some improvements in expansive Ness etc but not at the risk of points. 

 

[London Blue]

2 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

His safety first brand of football has largely been a result of circumstance rather than Allardyce proffered style of play. Most of the jobs he’s had he has been brought in with a specific task of saving them from relegation , and on every occasion he has done that job successfully

People who think his sides can only play one way are either too young to remember his Bolton side or have vey short memories

That side that contained the likes of Campo, Djorkaeff and Ockocha knew how to play good attacking football


 

If you speak to West Ham fans, and I have to quite a bit for my job, they will tell you that when he first came in and made them tough to beat, solid at the back got them promoted they were made up,  and that won their respect, despite their reservations about his playing style.

Until, over the next couple of seasons when he was given funds and tasked with moving the club to the next level he served up the same turgid, eye wateringly unattractive football he always has. Even tho he pretty much guaranteed them mid table football, which for them was success, the fans hated his style of football. Now he had money to spend, he had time, and given clear instructions by the board before the start of his last season to play more attractive football or else.

What happend , he simply was not able to change the way he manages teams, or the style of football they play. They even recruited an attacking coach, ala American football to help out after no improvement which made no difference. He will play this brand of kick and rush, % football no matter what. Which is fine to get us out of trouble, but to push on and give us the "School of Science" and success it just wont work.

Just glad its a short deal and I hope we get rid in the summer.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

If you speak to West Ham fans, and I have to quite a bit for my job, they will tell you that when he first came in and made them tough to beat, solid at the back got them promoted they were made up,  and that won their respect, despite their reservations about his playing style.

Until, over the next couple of seasons when he was given funds and tasked with moving the club to the next level he served up the same turgid, eye wateringly unattractive football he always has. Even tho he pretty much guaranteed them mid table football, which for them was success, the fans hated his style of football. Now he had money to spend, he had time, and given clear instructions by the board before the start of his last season to play more attractive football or else.

What happend , he simply was not able to change the way he manages teams, or the style of football they play. They even recruited an attacking coach, ala American football to help out after no improvement which made no difference. He will play this brand of kick and rush, % football no matter what. Which is fine to get us out of trouble, but to push on and give us the "School of Science" and success it just wont work.

Just glad its a short deal and I hope we get rid in the summer.

West Ham have hardly played better football under their next managers tbf. They'd have gone down with them players trying to play more attractive football. 

[London Blue]

2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

West Ham have hardly played better football under their next managers tbf. They'd have gone down with them players trying to play more attractive football. 

Billic first season was good, but he just could not control the squad and they lost respect for him. Funnily enough when Billic left I asked a few if they would have Sam back.....

The answer from the vast majority I'm talking 99% was no, not again, most of the answers were just expletives to be honest!

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Billic first season was good, but he just could not control the squad and they lost respect for him. Funnily enough when Billic left I asked a few if they would have Sam back.....

The answer from the vast majority I'm talking 99% was no, not again, most of the answers were just expletives to be honest!

Very similar to the Koeman situation; second big transfer window, both teams both went and made massive squad changes and neither manager could cope 

[pete0]

42 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Billic first season was good, but he just could not control the squad and they lost respect for him. Funnily enough when Billic left I asked a few if they would have Sam back.....

The answer from the vast majority I'm talking 99% was no, not again, most of the answers were just expletives to be honest!

From my experience of West ham fans it'll because SAF needs a club and they can get him (in their heads). 

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

From my experience of West ham fans it'll because SAF needs a club and they can get him (in their heads). 

To be fair they are not that arrogant, playing in the shadow of Spurs, Chelski and Arsenal makes that tough.

[Hafnia]

Well.... Let's just say he's not enhancing his chances of an extension. Which I don' wwant him to get. 40 points and get rid. 

[Romey 1878]

Can it be the summer now please?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Well.... Let's just say he's not enhancing his chances of an extension. Which I don' wwant him to get. 40 points and get rid. 

If he gets us to 40 points he will have done a good job but yes I would take that

[Aidan]

Get a striker this January in (chosen by Walsh) then get Sam out in the Summer 

[Quinn31]

Again, I am not going to  give an up or down vote on him for awhile, but many more performances like that aren't going to do his chances of staying on much good.Pitiful. 

 

Get the striker in and then no excuses.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

We need more than a striker, we have absolutely nothing down the left

[Quinn31]

1 minute ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

We need more than a striker, we have absolutely nothing down the left

 

Corbyn seems to be gaining in popularity, I would think that's plenty on the left?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Corbyn seems to be gaining in popularity, I would think that's plenty on the left?

I would rather stick with Coco!

[London Blue]

52 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

Corbyn seems to be gaining in popularity, I would think that's plenty on the left?

He's so far to the left he'd be playing in the car park. Plus his fans would be trying to de-select the right back. 

[Newty82]

Can't help but feel that he's used the so called easier games to either give certain players some game time for transfer decision reasons or to get some fitness.

As much as I like them, I was bemused to see Bolasie start and today McCarthy start, both after being missing for so long.

He very quickly steadied our defence. I was then expecting to see the shackles taken off a bit and us to look like we would do more going forward. Disappointed that instead we seem to be going more defensive and gone back to swapping players needlessly, as we know, momentum gets lost very easily.

Really no need to play as negatively as we have the last couple of games. And really concerning how little we are creating and how few shots we are having.

Sort it out big fella!!!

[Cornish Steve]

4 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

If he gets us to 40 points he will have done a good job but yes I would take that

 

Get us to 40 points, and he will have done what any semi-decent manager could have done. Nothing special.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Get us to 40 points, and he will have done what any semi-decent manager could have done. Nothing special.

 

 

I’m not so sure about that, there is a reason teams in trouble keep turning to him , but either way it’s more than Koeman or Unsworth could have done, and this season is a write off anyway, so it’s good enough for me

 

 

 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

 

I’m not so sure about that, there is a reason teams in trouble keep turning to him , but either way it’s more than Koeman or Unsworth could have done, and this season is a write off anyway, so it’s good enough for me

 

 

 

Normally they turn to him later in the season not way before Christmas.

 

The one thing I have learned from our previous managers is that shit football doesn’t' change over time. Its still early days for Allardyce but if this does continue then he should go ASAP and he shouldn't be allowed to lIngersoll like other managers have.