Goodbye To The Gravy Guzzler

[Lowensda]

Not all down to Sam. He's working with dross.

Last couple of windowa have crippled us. Bang average or shit players on mega money, who either don't play or can't. 

He puts out what he's got available. That's not alot.

[Guest]

Think back to the start of the season. Everyone believing we would truelly close the gap on the top four, play more expansive football and hopefully win some silverware.... We've regressed as a club in that short space. It's so depressing.

[Wiggytop]

2 points from 12,  with virtually no shots on target, we would be calling for Koeman or Unsworth heads by now if they were still in position.

He set us up yesterday to absorb all pressure and let Utd pass across the park, hopefully not allowing any through balls, first half work, they only had a couple of long range efforts, and I thought we were in with a chance of a victory, they didn't look that good to me. 

2nd half they started to play through the lines better,, we failed to respond, with  Rooney clearly struggling after being ill and needed replacing, Niasse just can't play the lone striker, McCarthy brought some bite into the side and we started to play more attacking but we're undone by some self inflicted errors, should have played 2 up front once were we're behind, keeping Niasse on and Schniederlin instead.

[c1982]

17 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

2 points from 12,  with virtually no shots on target, we would be calling for Koeman or Unsworth heads by now if they were still in position.

People were abusing Allardyce and calling for his head from the Gwladys and I’m sure elsewhere too. Stupid really - yes it’s ugly but he’s come in and taken us from 18th to 9th (with a few points cushion) in a very short period of time. I dread to think where we may have been without the upturn in form on the back of Sam’s appointment. I don’t think any Evertonian sees Allardyce as a long term appointment - he came because Fonseca or Silva or whoever wasn’t available - I, like many, think Sam will be gone by May having met the brief of steadying a sinking ship.

I have not enjoyed the tactics of late but I’m a lot happier looking at the top half of the table and speculating about how/when we’ll catch/pass Burnley and Leicester rather than looking at how many points we are off bottom.

Basically, 2017 was a year of many missed opportunities and some very poor management at all levels at EFC - if anything it reaffirms how far behind the ‘top 6’ we are in all areas on and off the pitch.

[Matt]

20 minutes ago, c1982 said:

People were abusing Allardyce and calling for his head from the Gwladys and I’m sure elsewhere too. Stupid really - yes it’s ugly but he’s come in and taken us from 18th to 9th (with a few points cushion) in a very short period of time. I dread to think where we may have been without the upturn in form on the back of Sam’s appointment. I don’t think any Evertonian sees Allardyce as a long term appointment - he came because Fonseca or Silva or whoever wasn’t available - I, like many, think Sam will be gone by May having met the brief of steadying a sinking ship.

I have not enjoyed the tactics of late but I’m a lot happier looking at the top half of the table and speculating about how/when we’ll catch/pass Burnley and Leicester rather than looking at how many points we are off bottom.

Basically, 2017 was a year of many missed opportunities and some very poor management at all levels at EFC - if anything it reaffirms how far behind the ‘top 6’ we are in all areas on and off the pitch.

He'll have to do better than 2 points in 12 - that's relegation form, and when it's 9 points from 18th, 9 from 5th, we were always going to move up and down the table week by week. He's not really done as good a job as people think he has; 4 goals conceded and 1 scored in the last 4 games against 2 relegation candidates, Chelsea (lucky/stoic performance) and a struggling United is not an upturn in form in my books.

Not really sure what anyone expected though, it's all he's good for and long term he is going to be more damaging than people realise. Still, we'll see what happens when we've got injured players back and after the transfer window I guess. Until then, I might have to start drinking caffeine again to help get me through the games

[Romey 1878]

I'm just hoping I can reach the summer of goodbye without banging my head on a brick wall and putting myself in a coma.

I now have some sympathy for West Ham and Newcastle fans, and that makes me feel dirty.

[Matt]

Just looking back a bit, and not including cup results:

Unsworth 

Played 5 League games - 7 points from 15

Allardyce

Played 8 league games - 12 from 24

Both have a 50% points won ratio. Just thought it was interesting

[Palfy]

23 minutes ago, Matt said:

Just looking back a bit, and not including cup results:

Unsworth 

Played 5 League games - 7 points from 15

Allardyce

Played 8 league games - 12 from 24

Both have a 50% points won ratio. Just thought it was interesting

That is quite an interesting stat, for me Allardyce blotted his book with his line ups against West Brom and Bournemouth if he had gone at them like we did against United we could have been 4-6 points better off over the last 3 games instead of the 1, still struggling to understand his logic on that to be fair, he's starting to fall in my estimation not that that matters of course.

[London Blue]

As others have said its stupid not to target winnable games like West Brom and Bournemouth. 

[c1982]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Just looking back a bit, and not including cup results:

Unsworth 

Played 5 League games - 7 points from 15

Allardyce

Played 8 league games - 12 from 24

Both have a 50% points won ratio. Just thought it was interesting

Including cup games, Unsworth’s Everton conceded 20 goals in 8 games whilst Allardyce’s have conceded 6 goals in 9. This is where the major change has occurred.

On a side note, many believe Allardyce had a say in the West Ham line-up/ shape - something I believe too if you compare the back 4/midfield shape before and after that match but obviously that deservedly counts as an Unsworth win.

[Newty82]

Could have sworn Allardyce was appointed a bit before the Chelsea game? Seems he's only had 4 games in charge, thought it was more.

Nevermind, must be having one of those Newty moments.

[Matt]

24 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Including cup games, Unsworth’s Everton conceded 20 goals in 8 games whilst Allardyce’s have conceded 6 goals in 9. This is where the major change has occurred.

On a side note, many believe Allardyce had a say in the West Ham line-up/ shape - something I believe too if you compare the back 4/midfield shape before and after that match but obviously that deservedly counts as an Unsworth win.

The reason i discounted the cup games is because the Europa League was done and dusted. 

I do wonder if Sam wouldnt have had the same issues as Unsworth taking directly over from Koeman.  Anyway, opinions aside, facts state that our points are the same under both so far

[markjazzbassist]

16 matches left, with the change in tactics I’m wondering if sam is just hoping to draw every match to get us to 40, no joke.

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

16 matches left, with the change in tactics I’m wondering if sam is just hoping to draw every match to get us to 40, no joke.

That might well have been his mandate, and he's not adventurous enough to overdo it. 

[Formby]

Unsworth was taking us nowhere except the Championship. Allardyce was always likely to divide opinion but we have been undoubtedly more organised under him. One thing the pro and anti Allardyce camps can surely agree on now is that we simply don't have the players. That's not his fault, as it wasn't Unsworth's. If we get to 40 points by drawing every game, so be it. I want to see who he brings in and if that changes things. 

[Matt]

11 minutes ago, Formby said:

Unsworth was taking us nowhere except the Championship. Allardyce was always likely to divide opinion but we have been undoubtedly more organised under him. One thing the pro and anti Allardyce camps can surely agree on now is that we simply don't have the players. That's not his fault, as it wasn't Unsworth's. If we get to 40 points by drawing every game, so be it. I want to see who he brings in and if that changes things. 

Going on the points per game, Allardyce is taking us down too by that logic. We may be more organised defensively, but it's not helped us increase our points tally any more than Unsworth managed under more difficult circumstances (in my opinion)

[Formby]

6 minutes ago, Matt said:

Going on the points per game, Allardyce is taking us down too by that logic. We may be more organised defensively, but it's not helped us increase our points tally any more than Unsworth managed under more difficult circumstances (in my opinion)

Hmm, you said the points ratio was 50%, didn't you? 

We are currently on 27 points.

There are 16 games to go, so 16x3=48. 50% of 48 is 24.

So 27+24=51points. 

Do you think that would take us down?

[Newty82]

The only thing about this Unsworth - Allardyce comparison of games, points, goals etc is that Unsworth didn't have to face any top opposition. Allardyce has had to face Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United.

Not that I'm defending Allardyce or berating Unsworth, or vice versa, just that for the above reason the whole comparison is worthless.

[London Blue]

2 hours ago, Formby said:

Unsworth was taking us nowhere except the Championship. Allardyce was always likely to divide opinion but we have been undoubtedly more organised under him. One thing the pro and anti Allardyce camps can surely agree on now is that we simply don't have the players. That's not his fault, as it wasn't Unsworth's. If we get to 40 points by drawing every game, so be it. I want to see who he brings in and if that changes things. 

Nope, we have most of the players, missing a striker left and right back.

I don't want him to decide what tea bags the club brings in, let alone what players we sign.

God willing he will be gone at the end of May.

[Shukes]

While watching us under Unsworth there were games when I thought we were goi g to tie it around. We started to see progress with our play but still made silly mistakes to concede goals. But we looked capable of scoring.

Under Sam, there were early moments when we saw progress, but then we seemed to clam up and regress again.

The argument could be that his early success was more down to Unsworths work, and that recent results are more inline with Sams style.

Well never know because Unswoerh was always going to be temporary. We can give our opinion on how we personally thought it could turn out, but we would be naive to think it’s anymore than that.

What we need to do, is give Sam a chance to get his own players in and see what happens then. He may surprise us! He may be exactly what we expect!

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Formby said:

Hmm, you said the points ratio was 50%, didn't you? 

We are currently on 27 points.

There are 16 games to go, so 16x3=48. 50% of 48 is 24.

So 27+24=51points. 

Do you think that would take us down?

No. Neither do I think, based on Unsworth stats that he would’ve either. 

[Matt]

1 minute ago, TallPaul1878 said:

But what we don't know is how the dressing room really responded to Unsworth. I'm sure they all like and respect him for his playing career, his personality and the good work he has done with the u23s.

But seriously, in the cut and thrust of the Premier League, do you honestly think that the players were not wondering when a new manager would take over?

I’m sure that was a large part of Unsworth problems. Had he and the squad been told he had the position until the end of the season, the attitude and approach would’ve been much different 

[Newty82]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

While watching us under Unsworth there were games when I thought we were goi g to tie it around. We started to see progress with our play but still made silly mistakes to concede goals. But we looked capable of scoring.

Under Sam, there were early moments when we saw progress, but then we seemed to clam up and regress again.

The argument could be that his early success was more down to Unsworths work, and that recent results are more inline with Sams style.

Well never know because Unswoerh was always going to be temporary. We can give our opinion on how we personally thought it could turn out, but we would be naive to think it’s anymore than that.

What we need to do, is give Sam a chance to get his own players in and see what happens then. He may surprise us! He may be exactly what we expect!

Time will tell on this one. It may well turn out that the team was on the up anyway. Again, as per, we are just guessing using some bias to guide us.

Unsworths biggest mistake was leaving it until the West Ham game to go back to basics and defend well. He said that's what they were working on in the lead up to that game. I think he'll learn a lot from that short stint and cone out better for it.

[Formby]

 

 

2 hours ago, Matt said:

No. Neither do I think, based on Unsworth stats that he would’ve either. 

Great! So the logic was sound and neither is / was taking us down.    

[nogs]

3 hours ago, London Blue said:

Nope, we have most of the players, missing a striker left and right back.

I don't want him to decide what tea bags the club brings in, let alone what players we sign.

God willing he will be gone at the end of May.

Eh? Do you think our CBs and CMs are good enough?

[London Blue]

15 minutes ago, nogs said:

Eh? Do you think our CBs and CMs are good enough?

I think Holgate and Keane will be a very good center back pairing. From end of November to the loss at Bournemouth, which is 8 games, and included playing both Chelsea and Liverpool we conceded very few goals and our defense looked good.

I think Gana, Schniederlin, with the potential of Davies, Benji mean that we have center midfield covered.   

[Matt]

53 minutes ago, Formby said:

 

 

Great! So the logic was sound and neither is / was taking us down.    

That was exactly my point, for both managers  

[Matt]

2 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Would it have just been a Shakespeare at Leicester situation though? 

The whole thing has aggravated me somewhat. In all honesty it makes Moshiri look a bit amateur. He gave Martinez the bullet after 2 plodding seasons and then went all out for Koeman who basically plodded again. We always seem to have a run of about 10 dreadful games at some point in a season but this year we've had more like 15.

Absolutely, because a Shakespeare scenario was all we needed until the end of th season. Instead, Moshiri dicked about publicly chasing managers for a month (something I expect of the kopites, not us) then panicked and paid waaay over the odds for one of footballs most notorious anti-football managers around. If it’s not clear, I share your aggravation   

[Aidan]

The best we can wish for this season is that Sam does well enough for us to finish in a half decent position, but not well enough for the club to justify keeping him on after the Summer. 

[London Blue]

I'll drink to that!!