Jump to content
IGNORED

Goodbye To The Gravy Guzzler


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 


Just to refresh your memory

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42042018

We were 16th in the table, 2 points off the relegation zone and 4 off the bottom of the table. We were on a downward spiral and a complete mess . I love your confidence but that is far too close for me



 

 

I remember where we were. And I was still confident we had the quality to get out of that. Sam wasn't the right choice, if have rather kept Unsy until the summer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember where we were. And I was still confident we had the quality to get out of that. Sam wasn't the right choice, if have rather kept Unsy until the summer.

As I say if you don’t think we were in the shit then I really do admire your confidence , things couldn’t really have got much worse so personally I had seen enough


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still class injured players as our players.

Well we were actually 13th not 16th after the West Ham match. We had just won 4-0 in Unsworths last match in charge.... that’s moving up not down.

we can all interpret the stats to suite our own agendas. 

If we would have carried in gaining the points at the rate Unsworth did.... then we would have been top ten easily. 

Which as you suggest would make Unsworth a very good manager... as there isn’t many managers who could manage a top ten finish with this lot. All opinions though as we have no idea if he would have improved or declined.

Im one of the fools that thinks the squad is good enough to finish in the top ten. I don’t think I’m the only one either.

What I do agree with, is that the squad is t good enough. We need new players. I think we need changes at the top just as much, if not more.

Question: how pathetically bad we’re our defence last year? Pretty much the same players. Baines is injured yes... but generally it’s the same defence. Or should we be bringing Stek back in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


He did not say more boring in attack he said more boring in his team selection .He should maybe have chosen his words better but I agree with what he was getting at

When he first came in he immediately sorted out the defence and we stopped conceding goals and started picking up points and rising up the table

Once it looked like we were out of trouble he started to do what most fans wanted him to do and started playing more attack minded players and all of a sudden we start getting battered again and are now in real danger of getting sucked back in to a relegation scrap

So it makes perfect sense to me that we go back to basics again

These players have failed miserably under 3 separate managers now and still some people think the problem is the manager. When do you start thinking maybe it’s the players that are the problem?



 

I thought he said that we needed to be a bit more boring generally? Bar Bolasie his team selection hasn' changed.

We have tried to get forward a little more in the last couple of games so I think he does mean that he wants to sit in a bit more, be more compact. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still class injured players as our players.

Well we were actually 13th not 16th after the West Ham match. We had just won 4-0 in Unsworths last match in charge.... that’s moving up not down.

we can all interpret the stats to suite our own agendas. 

If we would have carried in gaining the points at the rate Unsworth did.... then we would have been top ten easily. 

Which as you suggest would make Unsworth a very good manager... as there isn’t many managers who could manage a top ten finish with this lot. All opinions though as we have no idea if he would have improved or declined.

Im one of the fools that thinks the squad is good enough to finish in the top ten. I don’t think I’m the only one either.

What I do agree with, is that the squad is t good enough. We need new players. I think we need changes at the top just as much, if not more.

Question: how pathetically bad we’re our defence last year? Pretty much the same players. Baines is injured yes... but generally it’s the same defence. Or should we be bringing Stek back in?

The decision to appoint Allardyce was made after the Southampton game he was already here by the time we played West Ham

It’s an extremely flawed argument to say if we had continued picking up points at the rate Unsworth did . He only managed 5 league games, 4 against fellow strugglers and one against a Watford side that had lost the plot.

 

We got played off the park by Palace, Leicester and Southampton ( all shite teams) and the Watford game was heading the same way until we had a huge stroke of luck with their keeper going off injured

 

For the West Ham game it could be argued that the players were lifted by the news Allardyce had been appointed

 

Should we have kept Traore because if he had of continued scoring at his rate he would have won the golden boot?

 

I really do get that people are unhappy with Allardyce but I really can’t understand how anyone can think Unsworth was the answer

 

To answer your question about our defence last season , I thought they were decent

 

This season however we have missed Coleman badly

 

Baines, Hags and Williams are now all too old to be playing week in week out and we have Coco at left back

 

World of difference !

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, nogs said:

That's not really true though. Go look at the team he put out first game v Huddersfield - only Gana who is an out and out defensive midfielder, Rooney in the middle with Davies. So I don't know what he means by 'boring' in his team selection. The worst team he has put out to my mind so far was playing McCarthy, Gana and Schneiderlin at Bournemouth, and we have been fucking abysmal since. 

The lineup against Huddersfield was, for all intents and purposes, Unsworth’s. Crooked Sam kept the same team line-up, which was a good idea. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s not a flawed argument at all Dunc, it’s just not yours.

When trying to put across possible outcomes based on limited statistical facts... then all you have are he facts available. I also pointed out several times, that there is no way of knowing... because there isn’t.

You pointed out that we got played off the park against several teams under Unsworth, but we still picked up points. We have been played off the face of the earth under Sam and picked up a heavy goals against column, but that’s ok?

In all games we pick turning points where we have been lucky to get the result. We could do the same for games we have drawn or lost, but we don’t. I don’t think we are the luckiest team in the league.... nowhere near. We have had just as many deflections, slices, great goals against, and bad decisions. They just dont support our arguments very well.

Many people have suggested that Sam just being announced is the reason for the West Ham game. I honestly think Unsworth deserves more respect for that. Several players said they were so happy that they could give Unsworth a result in that game, but people still suggest it wasn’t down to him.

Who knows how well or bad Traore would have done, I dont. But I am knowledgable enough to know that Messi might not have as much as an impact as a fit Welbeck in our team and vice versa. Just the same as if Watford’s goalkeeper had stayed on, we don’t know that he might  of brought a player down, gave away a penalty and got sent off in the very next attack. He was replaced with a competent progressional as well.

I’m not going to go round in circles with you with this as you have a valid and well thought out opinion on this, and your not going to change. I respectfully disagree with it, but recognise your valid points.

On Coleman I agree 100%. I think he has been a massive miss for us. People have always argued that defence isn’t his strong point, but I have never agreed with this, as he plays the sweeper role excellently for us. A player with energy and speed getting round the back to tidy up is what he have desperately missed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bill said:

Coleman hasn't been missed that much, Kenny has been one of our most consistent performers while the rest have been rubbish.

Your right, Kenny has been brilliant. I do think we have missed Coleman though as we don’t have anyone with enough speed to get behind our defence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s not a flawed argument at all Dunc, it’s just not yours.
When trying to put across possible outcomes based on limited statistical facts... then all you have are he facts available. I also pointed out several times, that there is no way of knowing... because there isn’t.
You pointed out that we got played off the park against several teams under Unsworth, but we still picked up points. We have been played off the face of the earth under Sam and picked up a heavy goals against column, but that’s ok?
In all games we pick turning points where we have been lucky to get the result. We could do the same for games we have drawn or lost, but we don’t. I don’t think we are the luckiest team in the league.... nowhere near. We have had just as many deflections, slices, great goals against, and bad decisions. They just dont support our arguments very well.
Many people have suggested that Sam just being announced is the reason for the West Ham game. I honestly think Unsworth deserves more respect for that. Several players said they were so happy that they could give Unsworth a result in that game, but people still suggest it wasn’t down to him.
Who knows how well or bad Traore would have done, I dont. But I am knowledgable enough to know that Messi might not have as much as an impact as a fit Welbeck in our team and vice versa. Just the same as if Watford’s goalkeeper had stayed on, we don’t know that he might  of brought a player down, gave away a penalty and got sent off in the very next attack. He was replaced with a competent progressional as well.
I’m not going to go round in circles with you with this as you have a valid and well thought out opinion on this, and your not going to change. I respectfully disagree with it, but recognise your valid points.
On Coleman I agree 100%. I think he has been a massive miss for us. People have always argued that defence isn’t his strong point, but I have never agreed with this, as he plays the sweeper role excellently for us. A player with energy and speed getting round the back to tidy up is what he have desperately missed.

Of cause it’s a flawed argument . You are just looking at stats in isolation ,you are completely ignoring who the opposition were , how we played in those games and the luck involved in getting points away at Palace and home to Watford

Of his 8 games in charge there was one good performance , his last game , the rest we were woeful

The West Ham game probably was influenced by the players wanting to give him a win in his last game , he is a terrific bloke and a big blue, so why wouldn’t they?

But that is part of the problem, some people look at it through blue tinted glasses

If Roy Hodgson has come in and got exactly the same performances and results he would have been strung up from the nearest lamppost





Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:


Of cause it’s a flawed argument . You are just looking at stats in isolation ,you are completely ignoring who the opposition were , how we played in those games and the luck involved in getting points away at Palace and home to Watford

Of his 8 games in charge there was one good performance , his last game , the rest we were woeful

The West Ham game probably was influenced by the players wanting to give him a win in his last game , he is a terrific bloke and a big blue, so why wouldn’t they?

But that is part of the problem, some people look at it through blue tinted glasses

If Roy Hodgson has come in and got exactly the same performances and results he would have been strung up from the nearest lamppost




 

Of course it’s not flawed, it’s the only factual stats you can talk about. I’m talking about our missed chances and unlucky bounces as well as the ISOLATED incidents where you thought the other team were unlucky.

Your also taking your own opinion as fact, it’s not in any way. 

You say if Roy had come in and gained the same results he would have been strung up, so are you stringing Sam up as his results have been worse? 

Your also saying it was one good performance in 8. Again... your opinion. I saw it differently. I saw him and the players make extra effort from the start. I saw a kid play against Chelsea ... and Chelsea we’re lucky, but of course that was against us so t doesn’t count. 

And just for reference, four of those seven so called reserve players have been performing in the premier league for Chelsea. 

I also watched those matches and thought that until we went behind we were unlucky ourselves... but again it only counts when the other team are unlucky.

Am I right in saying that Sam only kept a few clean sheets because he was new and the players thought, he’s a great guy! What a load of crap! You telling me the players could have turned on those performances anytime and only decided to on his last day... fuck me I didnt realise football was easy.

Dunc I would never try and steal a bone from you haha! Let’s just stick to our opinions and accept that we’re never gonna agree with each other. Love your passion Dunc.

I just hope we can get a few positive results soon so we can all find some common ground.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh and your probably right... I am one of those blue tinted glasses guys. I am much more intelligent when speaking about anything other than Everton.

As soon as it’s Everton.... all I see is blue and ya winning the next match, whoever the opposition. You would have thought after years of disappointment I would have learned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course it’s not flawed, it’s the only factual stats you can talk about. I’m talking about our missed chances and unlucky bounces as well as the ISOLATED incidents where you thought the other team were unlucky.
Your also taking your own opinion as fact, it’s not in any way. 
You say if Roy had come in and gained the same results he would have been strung up, so are you stringing Sam up as his results have been worse? 
Your also saying it was one good performance in 8. Again... your opinion. I saw it differently. I saw him and the players make extra effort from the start. I saw a kid play against Chelsea ... and Chelsea we’re lucky, but of course that was against us so t doesn’t count. 
And just for reference, four of those seven so called reserve players have been performing in the premier league for Chelsea. 
I also watched those matches and thought that until we went behind we were unlucky ourselves... but again it only counts when the other team are unlucky.
Am I right in saying that Sam only kept a few clean sheets because he was new and the players thought, he’s a great guy! What a load of crap! You telling me the players could have turned on those performances anytime and only decided to on his last day... fuck me I didnt realise football was easy.
Dunc I would never try and steal a bone from you haha! Let’s just stick to our opinions and accept that we’re never gonna agree with each other. Love your passion Dunc.
I just hope we can get a few positive results soon so we can all find some common ground.



Stats mean nothing without context so to base your entire argument on stats alone has to be flawed , especially as Unsworth hasn’t had as many games

What do your stats look like if you compare Unsworth’s 8 games with Allardyces first 8 games?

I will give you the Chelsea game , to be fair that was a good performance, but you can’t seriously think we played well in any of the games in between ?

I was meaning the respect the players had for Unsworth was probably a contributing factor against West Ham , just as I believe Sam sat in the stands would have had an effect on the players mindset for that game

But yes let’s agree to disagree for everyone’s sanity!




Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Sam is shit. End off!

Some can try and make excuses, but facts are facts. He is doing shit! 

And sorry but it’s not just the players. 

Never was. Bringing in a “relegation expert” has been a massive kick to morale. I don’t care what comes out in the press about “wanting or excited to play for him”, he is a detriment to the club and it’s becoming more and more obvious. 

And I was really looking forward to my humble pie too. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Allardyce will get stick, and rightfully so, but when was the last time we saw any movement?! It’s been the standout problem for years now... I bet we’re shithot at musical statues! Until we sort this out, we’ll struggle as we’re far too easy to defend against, in turn giving our opponent too many opportunities to attack us. With the attacking options we’ve got now, it’s got to be the main focus on/off the training ground from now on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Allardyce will get stick, and rightfully so, but when was the last time we saw any movement?! It’s been the standout problem for years now... I bet we’re shithot at musical statues! Until we sort this out, we’ll struggle as we’re far too easy to defend against, in turn giving our opponent too many opportunities to attack us. With the attacking options we’ve got now, it’s got to be the main focus on/off the training ground from now on.

The only movement we have is when the wingers come inside and lose their width too!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I have witnessed worse teams fight more.

These are meant to be professionals. How can they forget basics so fast? How can they not know that even if your ability isn’t up to scratch... then fight for it?

They’re mentally drained after a shit start with an arrogant manager with zero man-management skills before being left in limbo for a month and then declared relegation fodder by bringing in one of the most negative managers in the game. 

Im not excusing their shite performances, but I understand why it’s happening

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please leave now Sam, you have a reputation for shore up defences, really? Cos it's not being seen here. We have a team that give the ball away without being under pressure, do you not see it? A player who can't play left back, yet continually you play him,. A DM who doesn't want to tackle, and only passes the ball sideways or backwards.

its just not good enough

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...