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Goodbye To The Gravy Guzzler


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34 minutes ago, johnh said:

I think Silva is a Martinez clone.  Don't want Allardyce but would rather have Dyche than Silva.

for the last time silva's style is nothing like martinez.  martinez = possession based attacking philosophy.  silva = defensively sound, counter attacking based philosophy.

 

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2017/02/16/tactical-philosophy-marco-silva/

 

Unlike other modern coaches such as Jurgen Klopp, the Portuguese’s first thought is to keep a clean sheet, rather than to out-gun their opponents. Even at a side with a crowd as demanding of dominating, attacking football like Olympiakos, Silva’s priority was organisation and defensive structure

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51 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

for the last time silva's style is nothing like martinez.  martinez = possession based attacking philosophy.  silva = defensively sound, counter attacking based philosophy.

 

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2017/02/16/tactical-philosophy-marco-silva/

 

Unlike other modern coaches such as Jurgen Klopp, the Portuguese’s first thought is to keep a clean sheet, rather than to out-gun their opponents. Even at a side with a crowd as demanding of dominating, attacking football like Olympiakos, Silva’s priority was organisation and defensive structure

That's a load of rubbish. They ship as many chances as they create. Pretty sure he has talked about not curbing his attacking ways too. 

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12 minutes ago, Bailey said:

That's a load of rubbish. They ship as many chances as they create. Pretty sure he has talked about not curbing his attacking ways too. 

just because they aren't good at defending doesn't mean that's not their focus, case in point big sam at everton.  my point is everything who says he's Pep/Martinez/Howe esque isn'tt correct, that's not his philosophy or wanted style of play. 

 

http://www.horneteffect.com/marco-silva-watford-fc-a-tactical-analysis/

 

Our success seems to hinge on three things:

  1. Staying organised
  2. Pressing intensely
  3. Breaking quickly
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11 minutes ago, Shukes said:

So tempted. Shouldn’t say it....... but stretching they’re kid! A certain person is taking the personal argument at tooo far.... obvious one mate. Not the above by the way!

Stop talking in riddles Shukes! 😃

6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

just because they aren't good at defending doesn't mean that's not their focus, case in point big sam at everton.  my point is everything who says he's Pep/Martinez/Howe esque isn'ttt correct, that's not his philosophy or wanted style of play. 

 

http://www.horneteffect.com/marco-silva-watford-fc-a-tactical-analysis/

 

Our success seems to hinge on three things:

  1. Staying organised
  2. Pressing intensely
  3. Breaking quickly

Those 3 things are the exact same things you would say of a Pep team or a Klopp team. 

It's not because they have crap defenders that they concede chances it's because they take risks. 

Try as you might MJB, Silva is an attacking manager who is prepared to take a chance to create a chance.

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Just think there is a dozen or so people on this forum who hated Martinez and wanted him out... YET, they cream over Silva and would like him in. 

They're the same manager, been saying this for ages. It's laughable.

 

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24 minutes ago, yamar said:

Just think there is a dozen or so people on this forum who hated Martinez and wanted him out... YET, they cream over Silva and would like him in. 

They're the same manager, been saying this for ages. It's laughable.

 

You know Martinez and Silva are different people right?

Different parents, family, childhoods, career's.

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1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Stop talking in riddles Shukes! 😃

Those 3 things are the exact same things you would say of a Pep team or a Klopp team. 

It's not because they have crap defenders that they concede chances it's because they take risks. 

Try as you might MJB, Silva is an attacking manager who is prepared to take a chance to create a chance.

you and i just see it differently.  a team set up to counter attack and defend is just that, defending first and not attacking.  you see that as an attacking team.  just cause he went all out at City doesn't mean that's his life philosophy.  Even Sam goes attacking once in a while, doesn't mean he's Pep Jr.

 

agree to disagree.

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14 minutes ago, London Blue said:

You know Martinez and Silva are different people right?

Different parents, family, childhoods, career's.

Same philosophy though. But people seem to see a difference.

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24 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

you and i just see it differently.  a team set up to counter attack and defend is just that, defending first and not attacking.  you see that as an attacking team.  just cause he went all out at City doesn't mean that's his life philosophy.  Even Sam goes attacking once in a while, doesn't mean he's Pep Jr.

 

agree to disagree.

Klopp teams set up to counter attack... does that make them Defensive?

I see a team that takes risk as an attacking team. Allardyce takes no risks, Koeman took little or no risk, thats why they were/are defensive managers.

When the coach says this you kind of expect him to produce an attack minded team:

"I started off with a small club in Portugal [Estoril], and achieved big things with offensive football. And then after I worked in two big clubs [Sporting Lisbon and Olympiacos] again with offensive football.

"We try to play, face-to-face with these teams, try to play offensive football with mobility as well. That is our philosophy. It's impossible, when one team and one player is afraid of something that might happen in a match, they will not play well, they will not have 100 per cent confidence

"We need to respect everybody, but we need to play our football. We never go into a game thinking: 'Let's wait back for the opponent to play and close our box.' It can happen, but the opponent can obligate our team to play in this style, but because they have the quality to put our team back, and never because this is our idea for the match. "

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11686/11089258/marco-silva-exclusive-my-managerial-philosophy

I think you are confusing an organised team as a defensive team. I watched enough of Watford this season to know that he isnt a Defence minded manager, very organised and drilled, but not defensive.

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14 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Klopp teams set up to counter attack... does that make them Defensive?

I see a team that takes risk as an attacking team. Allardyce takes no risks, Koeman took little or no risk, thats why they were/are defensive managers.

When the coach says this you kind of expect him to produce an attack minded team:

"I started off with a small club in Portugal [Estoril], and achieved big things with offensive football. And then after I worked in two big clubs [Sporting Lisbon and Olympiacos] again with offensive football.

"We try to play, face-to-face with these teams, try to play offensive football with mobility as well. That is our philosophy. It's impossible, when one team and one player is afraid of something that might happen in a match, they will not play well, they will not have 100 per cent confidence

"We need to respect everybody, but we need to play our football. We never go into a game thinking: 'Let's wait back for the opponent to play and close our box.' It can happen, but the opponent can obligate our team to play in this style, but because they have the quality to put our team back, and never because this is our idea for the match. "

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11686/11089258/marco-silva-exclusive-my-managerial-philosophy

I think you are confusing an organised team as a defensive team. I watched enough of Watford this season to know that he isnt a Defence minded manager, very organised and drilled, but not defensive.

he certainly was more than happy to sit back and take a point at Hull.  plenty of times they were setup to frustrate.  martinez/pep would never do that.  that's my point.  

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If we were willing to pay £10m in compensation to Watford, and who knows how many millions (lets say £6m since that's what Sam got), then why not combine that sum and actually go for a big name manager to match this desired big name image, instead of persisting with potential?  If money is no object, and it's willingly be wasted on the likes of Allardyce, Koeman and Martinez (in terms of the payout in the latter 2), aim as high as you can. 

My preferred choice is still without a club and if you offered a £10m signing on fee and stupid wages, I'm pretty sure anyone could be talked into taking on this project.

 

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

If we were willing to pay £10m in compensation to Watford, and who knows how many millions (lets say £6m since that's what Sam got), then why not combine that sum and actually go for a big name manager to match this desired big name image, instead of persisting with potential?  If money is no object, and it's willingly be wasted on the likes of Allardyce, Koeman and Martinez (in terms of the payout in the latter 2), aim as high as you can. 

My preferred choice is still without a club and if you offered a £10m signing on fee and stupid wages, I'm pretty sure anyone could be talked into taking on this project.

 

Zidane?  might be free in the summer.  

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Just now, Quinn31 said:

Linked w Arsenal. Surely he'll be in for that job or Chelsea - maybe Spurs if Poch goes to Real Madrid

Could well be, and I know it's a very long shot. But, if we are to be genuinely serious about competing at the top again, we need a proven winner. He fits that bill for me. 

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

Could well be, and I know it's a very long shot. But, if we are to be genuinely serious about competing at the top again, we need a proven winner. He fits that bill for me. 

Whoever manages us, they need some players to compete at the top level. And although we think we've got money now, we haven't got top-level money. We've got fart around in the £25m market for overrated players no one else wants level money. 

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We do this all the time. As soon as we think there maybe a change in manager, we start linking ourselves to managers like Anchelotti, zidane etc...

Also, we are always linked with top top players, only for them to sign for a top five side in any league 3 months later. We need to start being realistic as a club. We are still in the middle tier, with the likes of walcott (top four reject).

Whilst we are not in the CL, we will never attract top managers and top players. We need to build a hard working side to scrape into the CL... Then and only then can we start to look at this type of calibre.....

Moyes was classed as a pessimist. Maybe he was a realist after all.

Where has dzeko signed again? Exactly!!!!

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4 hours ago, yamar said:

We do this all the time. As soon as we think there maybe a change in manager, we start linking ourselves to managers like Anchelotti, zidane etc...

Also, we are always linked with top top players, only for them to sign for a top five side in any league 3 months later. We need to start being realistic as a club. We are still in the middle tier, with the likes of walcott (top four reject).

Whilst we are not in the CL, we will never attract top managers and top players. We need to build a hard working side to scrape into the CL... Then and only then can we start to look at this type of calibre.....

Moyes was classed as a pessimist. Maybe he was a realist after all.

Where has dzeko signed again? Exactly!!!!

Exactly indeed. Only way we'll get to the next level is the hard way and the smart way - a shrewd manager and owner with a shares vision and the trust/time to put it into practice, hungry players who become a collective that is more than a sum of its parts. We have none of those things at the moment, an owner throwing money at the problem without a clue what he's spending on, a rank average manager and overpaid players who think they're better than they are. Long, long road from here. 

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On 1/24/2018 at 17:47, nogs said:

Exactly indeed. Only way we'll get to the next level is the hard way and the smart way - a shrewd manager and owner with a shares vision and the trust/time to put it into practice, hungry players who become a collective that is more than a sum of its parts. We have none of those things at the moment, an owner throwing money at the problem without a clue what he's spending on, a rank average manager and overpaid players who think they're better than they are. Long, long road from here. 

Brilliant. Why I've said from day one I want Dyche or Howe. What they have done respectively, albeit with different styles, is nothing short of heroic. 

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