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duncanmckenzieismagic

Richarlison

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1 minute ago, London Blue said:

Silva has worked with him and Brands tried to sign him. I trust their judgement.

You don't seem to trust Silva quite so much when it comes to Niasse though. Probably because it doesn't match your own thoughts. 

You can like this signing, a forum would be pretty pointless if there's weren't opposing viewpoints. So I'll continue to think he's a poor signing until he's signed, when I'll back him every week as an Everton player.

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3 minutes ago, Steve_E said:

I like it. Fee's crazy of course, but rather spend it on a 21-year-old than on Sigurdsson. Reckon he could play as the centre forward? 

I said the same about Ross Barkley and look what happened.  so do not fuck up the signing or I will go ape shit on you  :lol:

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49 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

You don't seem to trust Silva quite so much when it comes to Niasse though. Probably because it doesn't match your own thoughts. 

You can like this signing, a forum would be pretty pointless if there's weren't opposing viewpoints. So I'll continue to think he's a poor signing until he's signed, when I'll back him every week as an Everton player.

No, I said something like "Fair enough he can cause chaos so an option off the bench in some games", my personal feelings are that he is not good enough but I trust the new management.

Football is a game with lots of opinions, time will tell how both Richarlson and Niasse perform.

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48 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

He didn’t even manage to be a half season wonder. I see absolutely nothing to get excited about by signing a bit of a shit flash in the pan regardless of price. 

The desperation for signings is strong in this one. 

I obviously hope he proves me wrong but I see him flopping majorly and us struggling to shift him this time next year. 

There were plenty of mitigating circumstances for his dip in form and given how much they both know him if they are wrong we really are in trouble 

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1 minute ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

There were plenty of mitigating circumstances for his dip in form and given how much they both know him if they are wrong we really are in trouble 

dear lord do not say things like that ffs

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I’m quietly excited about this. The few times I have watched him, I have thought he looks a player. If I didn’t know the price..... I would be looking at this as a positive signing.

Look, we really lack pace. We lack players who can run at, and beat players. This lad is fast, energetic and skilful. With him and either Lookman or Walcott and Cenk in the middle... we would have a very dangerous forward line.

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33 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

can someone post where brands has been interested in him as well?  not that i don't believe people i just haven't seen it in the articles (or i missed it).  if true that is promising as well.

From article in Liverpool Echo. 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/evertons-potential-signing-richarlison-makes-14935911

"And, he is also a player that Marcel Brands knows well, having been disappointed not to land him for PSV when he was sporting director of the Eredivisie club."

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8 minutes ago, London Blue said:

From article in Liverpool Echo. 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/evertons-potential-signing-richarlison-makes-14935911

"And, he is also a player that Marcel Brands knows well, having been disappointed not to land him for PSV when he was sporting director of the Eredivisie club."

thank you, then this really does make sense from all angles except price (unless the 50m is just what watford announce meanwhile it's really 30m plus add ons).

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I see it as him being overpriced.... and yes it had feelings of Martinez bringing McCarthy and koeman bringing schneiderlein....

 

But if I look below the surface... it appears that Silva was key in richalison choosing Watford over Ajax... a few months in and Silva was looking to leave and then was fired.... so yeah maybe there is elements of things not being right for the lad.

 

Let's face it... established international stars like van persie, Rio, Carrick looked awful after SAF left man United. It would be churlish to suggest change in managers doesn't change things.

£50m though???

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1 hour ago, London Blue said:

No, I said something like "Fair enough he can cause chaos so an option off the bench in some games", my personal feelings are that he is not good enough but I trust the new management.

Football is a game with lots of opinions, time will tell how both Richarlson and Niasse perform.

Not exactly the polar opposite of what I'm saying about Richarlison then - in that I don't rate him but I'll back him if he arrives.

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14 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

thank you, then this really does make sense from all angles except price (unless the 50m is just what watford announce meanwhile it's really 30m plus add ons).

I think the price is around 25 - 30 upfront with the rest in performance related add on's. 

3 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

N

?

image.jpeg.916a431f58f025565f65ac39c5e0d3a3.jpeg

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The price tag being banded around is frightening, given he's not really proven over any length of time. Lookman achieved similar at Leipzig, I'd rather go for Zaha and give Lookman more game time, Walcott is going to spend some time injured, and Zaha led the line for Palace a few times.

on the other hand Richarlison may have downed tools as he knew that Silva was coming here and didn't like the way he was treated by Watford, and that he would follow him.

Ill support him 100% if he does come, and will look forward to him becoming a great ( they must see it if their prepared to pay that amount)

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2 hours ago, Steve_E said:

I like it. Fee's crazy of course, but rather spend it on a 21-year-old than on Sigurdsson. Reckon he could play as the centre forward? 

I don't see why he couldn't, its just whether his finishing is good enough. I remember him missing a fair few sitters last year.

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5 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

We need more than 2 wingers, especially give Walcotts injury record

if Lookman doesn’t have the stomach to fight for his place then we should take the money and fuck him off now

Of course we need more than 2 wingers, but only two can consistently start, and if we’re paying more than 40 million for one of them, you can guarantee yourself that he’ll be one of them.

Lookman hasn’t said a word. Allardyce chose to send him on loan, and he pushed for a move to the Bundesliga over a Championship squad. That’s it. But if we really see something in the kid, as most of us do, I’d rather not Everton guarantee that he’ll be sitting on the bench most weeks.

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Last season Richarlison scored 5 goals, and created 4 assists, all of which came under Silva. All bar 1 assist came before things turned sour at Watford after Everton's approach. 

Richarlison obviously played well under Silva and seemed to struggle after the former Watford manager left the club. Maybe he was given less freedom, or maybe he just really enjoyed playing for Silva and fit into his tactics perfectly. 

One thing is for sure though, if the reported fee is true it is honestly way too much.

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1 hour ago, Aidan said:

One thing is for sure though, if the reported fee is true it is honestly way too much.

Depends on how he does; three years time it could be a huge bargain if we sell him for £200m but if he flops and we lose money/break even then it's too much. Time will tell, prices are absurd across the board now; it's monopoly money time but as long as we sell at inflated prices as well as buying at them so be it. It's unfortunate that the agents are the big winners but we can't avoid that just now, hopefully someone in a high place somewhere will address that at some point.

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Forget the cost.  Is he any good and will he improve the squad?

ive not seen him play.  Where might he fit in the side and what does it mean to our other forward players?

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4 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

Of course we need more than 2 wingers, but only two can consistently start, and if we’re paying more than 40 million for one of them, you can guarantee yourself that he’ll be one of them.

Lookman hasn’t said a word. Allardyce chose to send him on loan, and he pushed for a move to the Bundesliga over a Championship squad. That’s it. But if we really see something in the kid, as most of us do, I’d rather not Everton guarantee that he’ll be sitting on the bench most weeks.

Actually, Lookman had the guts to defy Allardyce to take a loan overseas. Allardyce refused to play him and tried to force him into the lower leagues. 

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As for Richarlison, he was one of the league’s better players in the first half of last season. I’m not keen on players who down tools for not getting what they want; nonetheless, he’s young and appears to be a real talent. 

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4 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Actually, Lookman had the guts to defy Allardyce to take a loan overseas. Allardyce refused to play him and tried to force him into the lower leagues. 

That’s what I was meaning to say; I realize my pronouns weren’t quite clear.

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8 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

As for Richarlison, he was one of the league’s better players in the first half of last season. I’m not keen on players who down tools for not getting what they want; nonetheless, he’s young and appears to be a real talent. 

I wouldn’t necessarily say he downed tools - they kept picking him for starters and he still seemed to work at the level which drew attention to him at the beginning of the season but in a much less dynamic/high tempo and successful Watford team. Also bear in mind that he’d just come from Brazil and played in the u20 World Cup - he’s not had a full pre-season for a couple of years - DCL faded last season because of this. Also, a young lad in a new country - he is human, it may take its toll at times. I personally think he’ll be a quality - I like the fact that he’s got quality going forward but works hard to get possession back quickly, like Gylfi, too. I think this will be vital if players want to play under Silva.

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11 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Saw a tweet earlier along the lines of we're a club that's desperate to make a marquee signing, and that we pay marquee prices without getting the marquee player.

That sums up this move for me.

Pretty similar to what man city were doing when they first had the cash injection.  Buying santa cruz, bellamy, lescott, adebuyor, toure for top dollar.... 

The upside to this lad is far in advance of £40m so Silva and brands must believe that.  If he was to be a slight disappointment he would still probably go for £15-£20m.

Unfortunately until we get to the next level which is top4 - we are unlikely to be able to attract true marquee players... especially those who aren't 29 years old just looking for a retirement package.

I'm not entirely happy about this but I understand why we are doing it.  Get rid of bolassie for £15m, mirallas for a few mill, pay someone to take Williams... the squad will take a different shape.  Let's hope for the much better. 

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He improves the first 11 which is what matters to me personally ATM 

Large fee and obviously with all transfers carries a big risk but the markets fucked and we are paying for potential, if the lad cracks on which I think he will under Silva his fee will be justified 

We need to bring in a Loftus-Cheek type now who can augment our midfield 

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1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Pretty similar to what man city were doing when they first had the cash injection.  Buying santa cruz, bellamy, lescott, adebuyor, toure for top dollar.... 

The upside to this lad is far in advance of £40m so Silva and brands must believe that.  If he was to be a slight disappointment he would still probably go for £15-£20m.

Unfortunately until we get to the next level which is top4 - we are unlikely to be able to attract true marquee players... especially those who aren't 29 years old just looking for a retirement package.

I'm not entirely happy about this but I understand why we are doing it.  Get rid of bolassie for £15m, mirallas for a few mill, pay someone to take Williams... the squad will take a different shape.  Let's hope for the much better. 

It doesn't need to be like that. Why can't we find the next Richarlison from Brazil directly and buy him for reasonable £10-15m price, just like Watford did one year ago? isn'tt that what we brought Brands for?

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1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Pretty similar to what man city were doing when they first had the cash injection.  Buying santa cruz, bellamy, lescott, adebuyor, toure for top dollar.... 

The upside to this lad is far in advance of £40m so Silva and brands must believe that.  If he was to be a slight disappointment he would still probably go for £15-£20m.

Unfortunately until we get to the next level which is top4 - we are unlikely to be able to attract true marquee players... especially those who aren't 29 years old just looking for a retirement package.

I'm not entirely happy about this but I understand why we are doing it.  Get rid of bolassie for £15m, mirallas for a few mill, pay someone to take Williams... the squad will take a different shape.  Let's hope for the much better. 

Mate, you've been on drugs if you think anyone will pay £15m for Bolasie :lol: There's more chance of getting that for Mirallas and that chance is zero!

I think my main problem with this Richarlison deal is that I simply don't rate him and that's why I find the fee ridiculous. He hasn't been here long enough to even hint at that early form being something he's consistently capable of and that it wasn't just a purple patch that a lot of players have at the beginning. Is the odd game or two every once in a while going to be worth the £35m/£40m/£50m (or whatever it ends up being)? I'm willing to pay anything to get quality but I just don't feel it with him. 

Maybe if we hadn't been burned so often recently by paying massive fees for players that either were never worth it in the first place, or didn't live up to what we hoped, then I'd be far more inclined to take this one on the chin for potential reward. But this just feels like more of the same from last summer and I thought things were going to be better with Brands.

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1 hour ago, EFC-Paul said:

He improves the first 11 which is what matters to me personally ATM 

Large fee and obviously with all transfers carries a big risk but the markets fucked and we are paying for potential, if the lad cracks on which I think he will under Silva his fee will be justified 

We need to bring in a Loftus-Cheek type now who can augment our midfield 

Does he, though?

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30 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

Does he, though?

I wouldn't have put it if I didn't think it 

Quick big and strong skillful and bags of potential a big upgrade on Yannick in my eyes (not hard) 

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2 hours ago, Haiku said:

It doesn't need to be like that. Why can't we find the next Richarlison from Brazil directly and buy him for reasonable £10-15m price, just like Watford did one year ago? isn'ttt that what we brought Brands for?

Yeah like lookman and vlassic... £20m for the 2. Richarlison has proven to be an effective player under Silva in the prem. 

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2 hours ago, Haiku said:

It doesn't need to be like that. Why can't we find the next Richarlison from Brazil directly and buy him for reasonable £10-15m price, just like Watford did one year ago? isn'ttt that what we brought Brands for?

 

I can only presume that with both him and Silva coming in quite late, the world cup and the short window it is going to be a bit more difficult to plan long term in just 1 window. With the deals like the Richarlison one (when he joined Watford from Brazil), who just never know how he is going to settle and adapt to the English game. In this window, Brands and Silva cant afford a player to take time to settle in so in the key positions it looks like they are heading for more tried and trusted players, albeit ones that are still at a good age and not approaching their last contracts. Richarlison has been here for a year, Digne has played all across Europe, Loftus-Cheek has now had a full season in the league and Mina (who is probably the biggest risk) has spent time at one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

Lets see how things develop over time and then we can judge them both over a series of windows when they both have their feet firmly under the table.

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12 minutes ago, Bailey said:

 

I can only presume that with both him and Silva coming in quite late, the world cup and the short window it is going to be a bit more difficult to plan long term in just 1 window. With the deals like the Richarlison one (when he joined Watford from Brazil), who just never know how he is going to settle and adapt to the English game. In this window, Brands and Silva cant afford a player to take time to settle in so in the key positions it looks like they are heading for more tried and trusted players, albeit ones that are still at a good age and not approaching their last contracts. Richarlison has been here for a year, Digne has played all across Europe, Loftus-Cheek has now had a full season in the league and Mina (who is probably the biggest risk) has spent time at one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

Lets see how things develop over time and then we can judge them both over a series of windows when they both have their feet firmly under the table.

Pretty much my thoughts 👍

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3 minutes ago, Shukes said:

We also need to remember that Brands is a DOF and not a scout.

His job will be to set up a scouting network and have them going to our to find talent... that doesn’t happen overnight.

But he's the one who brings players into the club. He should have a shortlist of targets he knows from his time at PSV.

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11 minutes ago, Haiku said:

But he's the one who brings players into the club. He should have a shortlist of targets he knows from his time at PSV.

No he isn’t though, your mixing him up with a chief scout. The DOF is involved in everything to do with the club. He will manage a team that scouts and brings players in, and then he may be involved in negotiations, but he will have a team scouting and bringing players to the table.

Brands position is not a scout. He is director of football. He is involved in the team, staff and facilities. 

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2 hours ago, Bailey said:

 

I can only presume that with both him and Silva coming in quite late, the world cup and the short window it is going to be a bit more difficult to plan long term in just 1 window. With the deals like the Richarlison one (when he joined Watford from Brazil), who just never know how he is going to settle and adapt to the English game. In this window, Brands and Silva cant afford a player to take time to settle in so in the key positions it looks like they are heading for more tried and trusted players, albeit ones that are still at a good age and not approaching their last contracts. Richarlison has been here for a year, Digne has played all across Europe, Loftus-Cheek has now had a full season in the league and Mina (who is probably the biggest risk) has spent time at one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

Lets see how things develop over time and then we can judge them both over a series of windows when they both have their feet firmly under the table.

Top post, I agree

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2 hours ago, Haiku said:

But he's the one who brings players into the club. He should have a shortlist of targets he knows from his time at PSV.

But will his list of targets from PSV be suitable for a much tougher Premier League?

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6 hours ago, EFC-Paul said:

I wouldn't have put it if I didn't think it 

Quick big and strong skillful and bags of potential a big upgrade on Yannick in my eyes (not hard) 

My dead grandma is better than Bolasie. Not so convinced he’s better than Lookman and Vlasic.

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5 hours ago, Haiku said:

But he's the one who brings players into the club. He should have a shortlist of targets he knows from his time at PSV.

See below...

3 hours ago, Newty82 said:

But will his list of targets from PSV be suitable for a much tougher Premier League?

Exactly Newts. If PSV needed a right back, starting GK and quick right winger and he had utilised his scouts to find these type of players then its pretty useless for us. 

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3 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

My dead grandma is better than Bolasie. Not so convinced he’s better than Lookman and Vlasic.

I really rate Lookman I think the lad could become a brilliant player but in natural raw ability this lad pips him for me 

His physicality whilst still being quick and skillful is what gives him the edge but I'd love to have them both here on either side 

Vlasic isn'tt a winger he's a modern day forward/attacking midfielder who again I think could be a cracking player but not out wide 

Have you seen the lad play? 

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1 minute ago, EFC-Paul said:

I really rate Lookman I think the lad could become a brilliant player but in natural raw ability this lad pips him for me 

His physicality whilst still being quick and skillful is what gives him the edge but I'd love to have them both here on either side 

Vlasic isn'ttt a winger he's a modern day forward/attacking midfielder who again I think could be a cracking player but not out wide 

Have you seen the lad play? 

I have seen Vlasic play and he's been pretty much exclusively used on the wing by all three Everton managers since he got here. Whether it's his natural position or not (and you're right that it's not), that's where he keeps getting played.

As for Lookman, it's a matter of opinion. If Richarlison is an improvement at all, he's certainly not enough of one to warrant that price tag for me, and Lookman is slightly younger with loads of ability, so I hate to stunt his growth by throwing someone who's only arguably and marginally better than him into the starting XI before him.

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1 minute ago, nyblue23 said:

I have seen Vlasic play and he's been pretty much exclusively used on the wing by all three Everton managers since he got here. Whether it's his natural position or not (and you're right that it's not), that's where he keeps getting played.

As for Lookman, it's a matter of opinion. If Richarlison is an improvement at all, he's certainly not enough of one to warrant that price tag for me, and Lookman is slightly younger with loads of ability, so I hate to stunt his growth by throwing someone who's only arguably and marginally better than him into the starting XI before him.

No not Vlasic I meant if you'd seen Richarlson play, he's shite out wide and having Sigurdsson here won't bode well for his chances through the middle so he'll be limited 

I agree on Lookman but as I said in my opinion this lad is better and has more about his game 

Price tag I really couldn't care tbh it's the price you pay for potential in a crazy market, this kid at £35+m or Maddison for £24m I know where my money would be going 

I'd be very happy to have those two and Walcott vying for either wing/front three spot along with Tosun 

We'll see how the lad gets on but I'd gladly pop back to this one as I'm confident he'll be a very good purchase 

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I really like Lookman and think he’ll be a very good player but he hasn’t actually had too many good games for us albeit with limited chances and no run of games. I think Richarlison has a lot more to his game but want him in addition to Lookman - get shut of Mirallas and Bolasie... maybe use Sandro a little more too as over the course of the season we’ll need 4/5 wingers (Vlasic being the 5th) and there’s plenty of versatility amongst the 5.

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3 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said:

No not Vlasic I meant if you'd seen Richarlson play, he's shite out wide and having Sigurdsson here won't bode well for his chances through the middle so he'll be limited  

Richarlison played out wide every time I saw him for Watford - he’ll play on the left but there will hopefully be a lot of interchanging/flexibility between the front 3/4.

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36 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Richarlison played out wide every time I saw him for Watford - he’ll play on the left but there will hopefully be a lot of interchanging/flexibility between the front 3/4.

Fuck me not having much luck tonight with people getting their wires crossed 😂

That was a reply to a previous post to NY not regarding Richarlison but Vlasic basically saying he isn'tt a wide man and he's poor there 

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