Youth strategy

[Cornish Steve]

One of the things I raved about three years ago was Everton's obvious youth strategy. I could see how the higher-ups were looking to build a legacy, a group of young players who could develop together and potentially dominate the league for a decade. Even the very idea was so exciting. Even when we bought older players (such as Barry), it was to allow the youngsters to learn from their experience. With the arrival of Koeman, that strategy went out the window, and we brought in players like Schneiderlin and Martina - older cast-offs, basically. Until this season, Koeman did little to bring through other younger players. One thing Unsworth did in his short spell as manager was to bring through a couple more youngsters. His hard work with the U23s was on show midweek in Europe when a couple more of them displayed obvious talent.

Crooked Sam has a history of turning to older players and not younger talent. To his credit, he kept Unsworth's lineup for his first win and played youth midweek. I genuinely hope this was not the exception to his usual rule because this is now the ideal season to bring through strong young players. Maybe we can get back to that earlier strategy: build a legacy around a full team of great young players.

[Quinn31]

12 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

One of the things I raved about three years ago was Everton's obvious youth strategy. I could see how the higher-ups were looking to build a legacy, a group of young players who could develop together and potentially dominate the league for a decade. Even the very idea was so exciting. Even when we bought older players (such as Barry), it was to allow the youngsters to learn from their experience. With the arrival of Koeman, that strategy went out the window, and we brought in players like Schneiderlin and Martina - older cast-offs, basically. Until this season, Koeman did little to bring through other younger players. One thing Unsworth did in his short spell as manager was to bring through a couple more youngsters. His hard work with the U23s was on show midweek in Europe when a couple more of them displayed obvious talent.

Crooked Sam has a history of turning to older players and not younger talent. To his credit, he kept Unsworth's lineup for his first win and played youth midweek. I genuinely hope this was not the exception to his usual rule because this is now the ideal season to bring through strong young players. Maybe we can get back to that earlier strategy: build a legacy around a full team of great young players.

Right then. Dominate the league? With who? Man City when we sell them.

Schneiderlin had been a quality player, absolute sense to buy him. Martina even on a free wasn't good enough. You're right though, Koeman didn't buy any youth (Lookman, DCL, Keane, Pickford, Sandro, Klaassen, Lewis Gibson, Onyekuru, Nathangelo Markel, Vlasic, Boris Mathis)...

FInal point is great. Our ambition shouldn't be to be the next Man City, it should be to become the next Southampton. 

 

Young players are great, but they are raw and many of them will not reach the full potential that fans see in them. A side needs to be balanced with a mix of steady veterans and players in their prime alongside young players who can kick on and either become stars (to stay at Everton or to be sold). They are more mistake prone and also often less able to maintain composure during a match. The best footballers use their heads and can make good decisions on the pitch whether they are 5-0 up or 5-0 down.

A club that only buys 28+ year old players and doesn't have a strong academy will eventually be in trouble (Fulham), but the Premier League is too unforgiving to field a team with an average age of 23.... 

[Cornish Steve]

My point is that it's possible to achieve lasting success with strategies other than spending ridiculous amounts of money. With focus, it can be done - and pursuing a strategy around youth is one way to achieve it over the long-term. Not every young player will make it, for sure, but we already have several World Cup winners in our ranks with the potential to produce more. IMO, we should go for it and allow them to develop together.

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, Quinn31 said:

Right then. Dominate the league? With who? Man City when we sell them.

Schneiderlin had been a quality player, absolute sense to buy him. Martina even on a free wasn't good enough. You're right though, Koeman didn't buy any youth (Lookman, DCL, Keane, Pickford, Sandro, Klaassen, Lewis Gibson, Onyekuru, Nathangelo Markel, Vlasic, Boris Mathis)...

FInal point is great. Our ambition shouldn't be to be the next Man City, it should be to become the next Southampton. 

 

Young players are great, but they are raw and many of them will not reach the full potential that fans see in them. A side needs to be balanced with a mix of steady veterans and players in their prime alongside young players who can kick on and either become stars (to stay at Everton or to be sold). They are more mistake prone and also often less able to maintain composure during a match. The best footballers use their heads and can make good decisions on the pitch whether they are 5-0 up or 5-0 down.

A club that only buys 28+ year old players and doesn't have a strong academy will eventually be in trouble (Fulham), but the Premier League is too unforgiving to field a team with an average age of 23.... 

"You won't win anything with kids" someone once said, whatever happened to that team?

It is true not all the young players will make it, but if we can have 4 or 5 that will, then how much will that save us, and how much understanding will they have coming up through the Everton system together.

Obtaining and developing youth players is the only sustainable way to compete unless you are Chelski, City or Utd.

[Romey 1878]

33 minutes ago, London Blue said:

"You won't win anything with kids" someone once said, whatever happened to that team?

It is true not all the young players will make it, but if we can have 4 or 5 that will, then how much will that save us, and how much understanding will they have coming up through the Everton system together.

Obtaining and developing youth players is the only sustainable way to compete unless you are Chelski, City or Utd.

How many have done it since? It’s like using the Leicester outlier to prove a point that anyone can win the league. 

[London Blue]

8 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

How many have done it since? It’s like using the Leicester outlier to prove a point that anyone can win the league. 

Utd dominated for 10 years with those kids.

Monaco have been doing it in France for 5 years, being successful and making money by selling them in.

Young quality players of the future have to come from somewhere, but getting them young with a good scout network and training facility it will be possible to get 5 or more players this way.

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, London Blue said:

Utd dominated for 10 years with those kids.

Monaco have been doing it in France for 5 years, being successful and making money by selling them in.

Young quality players of the future have to come from somewhere, but getting them young with a good scout network and training facility it will be possible to get 5 or more players this way.

I’m all for bringing kids through, and buying them in early, but as much as we’d all like that to bring us success it’s unlikely to happen. Youngsters will more than likely just be a supplement to what we bring in, rather than the main component. 

[nogs]

2 hours ago, Quinn31 said:

Right then. Dominate the league? With who? Man City when we sell them.

Schneiderlin had been a quality player, absolute sense to buy him. Martina even on a free wasn't good enough. You're right though, Koeman didn't buy any youth (Lookman, DCL, Keane, Pickford, Sandro, Klaassen, Lewis Gibson, Onyekuru, Nathangelo Markel, Vlasic, Boris Mathis)...

FInal point is great. Our ambition shouldn't be to be the next Man City, it should be to become the next Southampton. 

 

Young players are great, but they are raw and many of them will not reach the full potential that fans see in them. A side needs to be balanced with a mix of steady veterans and players in their prime alongside young players who can kick on and either become stars (to stay at Everton or to be sold). They are more mistake prone and also often less able to maintain composure during a match. The best footballers use their heads and can make good decisions on the pitch whether they are 5-0 up or 5-0 down.

A club that only buys 28+ year old players and doesn't have a strong academy will eventually be in trouble (Fulham), but the Premier League is too unforgiving to field a team with an average age of 23.... 

You're missing the point that we haven't got the money to buy our way to success like Man City. You clearly don't believe youth strategy works If you want to compete at the top. That's fine, lots of people look at Real Madrid, PSG, Chelsea, Man City and think that's the only model. History doesn't back that up, though. Man Utd would not have dominated English football for two decades if it wasn't for the outstanding core of players they brought through the ranks in the early 90s. Ajax won the Champions League with a squad where three quarters of the players had come through the academy. Even Barcelona in their pomp under Guardiola - go count the home grown players. 

I don't think Steve was suggesting fielding a u23 team in the Prem. He was advocating prioritising youth progression over spunking obscene amounts of money on bang average players like we have done in the past 18 months. I can't see how there can be any problem with that. 

[Quinn31]

28 minutes ago, nogs said:

You're missing the point that we haven't got the money to buy our way to success like Man City. You clearly don't believe youth strategy works If you want to compete at the top. That's fine, lots of people look at Real Madrid, PSG, Chelsea, Man City and think that's the only model. History doesn't back that up, though. Man Utd would not have dominated English football for two decades if it wasn't for the outstanding core of players they brought through the ranks in the early 90s. Ajax won the Champions League with a squad where three quarters of the players had come through the academy. Even Barcelona in their pomp under Guardiola - go count the home grown players. 

I don't think Steve was suggesting fielding a u23 team in the Prem. He was advocating prioritising youth progression over spunking obscene amounts of money on bang average players like we have done in the past 18 months. I can't see how there can be any problem with that. 

It would appear we've also spent a ton of money on bang average youth. Bet we've bought 10+ players 24 or younger since Koeman arrived (see my list)

[nogs]

24 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

It would appear we've also spent a ton of money on bang average youth. Bet we've bought 10+ players 24 or younger since Koeman arrived (see my list)

Out of your list I'd say we overspent on Klaassen and Keane. I don't think you can have any argument with the others. 

[Newty82]

I've always said that I'd prefer youth to get a fair shot instead of these bang average squad fillers being bought, or brought, in.

Martina is a great example. Already it's been shown that he brings no more than Kenny. Yet originally Kenny wasn't really in the plans. But he's played his way into the plans.

And I've no doubt that DCL will see much less game time once we sign a striker.

Then you'll get a kid like Davies who, because if how he is and how he plays, bursts onto the scene, makes an impression but then doesn't really seem to progress at a noticeble rate.

The thing with most kids is that they need time to adjust from the much easier U23 to the far superior Premiership. How many games has it taken Kenny and DCL to convince people and really grow into the game? DCL still is 50/50, Kenny less so.

There has to be a balance where you give the lads a chance but don't heap too much pressure on them. Also, you don't do it at a rate that effects team results. It's a tough one.

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, Newty82 said:

I've always said that I'd prefer youth to get a fair shot instead of these bang average squad fillers being bought, or brought, in.

Martina is a great example. Already it's been shown that he brings no more than Kenny. Yet originally Kenny wasn't really in the plans. But he's played his way into the plans.

And I've no doubt that DCL will see much less game time once we sign a striker.

Then you'll get a kid like Davies who, because if how he is and how he plays, bursts onto the scene, makes an impression but then doesn't really seem to progress at a noticeble rate.

The thing with most kids is that they need time to adjust from the much easier U23 to the far superior Premiership. How many games has it taken Kenny and DCL to convince people and really grow into the game? DCL still is 50/50, Kenny less so.

There has to be a balance where you give the lads a chance but don't heap too much pressure on them. Also, you don't do it at a rate that effects team results. It's a tough one.

And this is a great season to give more of them a chance. Frankly, I don't want us to spend big in January: just focus on the biggest weakness. Instead, bring through more young players to allow them to acclimatize to the Premier League. They've played together for a while and know each other's strengths and weaknesses, and that's valuable in itself.

And to those who keep repeating that they're not ready, I suggest you consider which players have been our best in the last few weeks. It's the youngsters - hungry to win and demonstrating 110% commitment.

[Makis]

United got a golden generation, but they did make some big signings to complement it. They wouldn't have won all that silverware without Schmeichel, Keane, Cantona, Irwin, Pallister and many others, like the strikers they signed (Cole for instance).

And on top of that they had the greatest manager ever in PL and arguably at least one of the top three in the history of English football.