Brighton and Hove Albion (Home) Saturday March 10th

[Hafnia]

5 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Let's not go there mate your Lukaku rants surpassed anything I've had the privilege to see in my 58 years on this earth, in other words utter bollocks you either need to go to Spec Savers or your real identity is Stevie Wonder.

Lukaku rants?  Go head to redcafe and you will find United fans airing the exact same views:-

Shite control

Erratic consistency

Laziness

Inability to do it against good teams

Inability to hold up play....

I'm hardly alone in this critique of him. I did maintain that he was a good finisher and once in a while he could look a very good player but far too infrequently. 

He put his own head above the parapet by stating how he thought he was too good for us and wanting moves etc. So yeah he got some raw truths. 

Gana?  Well let's just say we had a complete and utter prick taking the piss out of our club and fans in schneiderlein and yet you continued to single out gana.... weird. 

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Lukaku rants?  Go head to redcafe and you will find United fans airing the exact same views:-

Shite control

Erratic consistency

Laziness

Inability to do it against good teams

Inability to hold up play....

I'm hardly alone in this critique of him. I did maintain that he was a good finisher and once in a while he could look a very good player but far too infrequently. 

He put his own head above the parapet by stating how he thought he was too good for us and wanting moves etc. So yeah he got some raw truths. 

Gana?  Well let's just say we had a complete and utter prick taking the piss out of our club and fans in schneiderlein and yet you continued to single out gana.... weird. 

Its not weird it's reality Gana is not good enough it's not personal it's a fact, as you rightly said Rooney controlled the midfield it may have escaped your notice Rooney played in the same position as Gana world have, the difference being Rooney owned it Gana doesn't.

[Hafnia]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Its not weird it's reality Gana is not good enough it's not personal it's a fact, as you rightly said Rooney controlled the midfield it may have escaped your notice Rooney played in the same position as Gana world have, the difference being Rooney owned it Gana doesn't.

Yesterday didn't call for gana.  I'm fine with rotation for what is required. He's not a midfield general or a play maker, he's a ball winner. But I'm not gonna spend hours on here whinging as to why he isn'tt alan ball. 

 All very well Rooney running it yesterday - against better midfields he goes missing and looks leggy. 

 

Horses for courses.... you just don't see it like that. 

[c1982]

52 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Cuco has been solid enough defensively. 

He has but his inability to use his left foot constantly kills attacks, takes the tempo out of our play and puts us under unnecessary pressure. He’s given his all - fair play to him - but he should never be used as a left back here again.

[Matt]

Nice win though, eh?

[c1982]

18 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Its not weird it's reality Gana is not good enough it's not personal it's a fact, as you rightly said Rooney controlled the midfield it may have escaped your notice Rooney played in the same position as Gana world have, the difference being Rooney owned it Gana doesn't.

The fact is that you can’t see his qualities. All on here accept he has limitations but to say he’s not good enough goes against the opinion of most at the club, most fans, most pundits and probably most of his teammates - hey, maybe you and peteO have it spot on but I personally doubt it based on what I see week in and week out.

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, c1982 said:

He has but his inability to use his left foot constantly kills attacks, takes the tempo out of our play and puts us under unnecessary pressure. He’s given his all - fair play to him - but he should never be used as a left back here again.

I agree only problem with that is if Baines gets injured he will get played there again.

[pete0]

19 minutes ago, c1982 said:

He has but his inability to use his left foot constantly kills attacks, takes the tempo out of our play and puts us under unnecessary pressure. He’s given his all - fair play to him - but he should never be used as a left back here again.

I agree. Defensively though he's been sound. Of all the outfield defensive players this season I'd go as far to say he's been the most sound, between him and Holgate.  Says more about how shite we've been. 

[Palfy]

6 minutes ago, c1982 said:

The fact is that you can’t see his qualities. All on here accept he has limitations but to say he’s not good enough goes against the opinion of most at the club, most fans, most pundits and probably most of his teammates - hey, maybe you and peteO have it spot on but I personally doubt it based on what I see week in and week out.

I like to let the football talk for its self yesterday was one of our best performances this season in all areas, and with Davies Rooney and Gylfi dominating the middle it gave us the impetus to be more attacking and defensively sound.

Would we have been the same with Gana in instead of Rooney playing the central holding role we won't ever know, but what I can say is that in my opinion no we wouldn't, you can't have the player that you give the most vital role on the pitch to running round like a headless chicken, it leaves you constantly exposed as we've witnessed so many times to our cost in the passed, but not yesterday.

[Matt]

It was one of the best performances, but that’s wasnt down to Gana missing. It was down to key players actually playing well for a change, the fact the quality this year has been sooooo bad, having Baines and Coleman back, and Brighton setting up for a draw and nothing more. 

[Palfy]

21 minutes ago, Matt said:

It was one of the best performances, but that’s wasnt down to Gana missing. It was down to key players actually playing well for a change, the fact the quality this year has been sooooo bad, having Baines and Coleman back, and Brighton setting up for a draw and nothing more. 

So on that basis do you believe he should walk back into the team next week and replace Rooney, I don't which is no surprise just interested what you and others think should happen, without messing with the formation and line up to just shoehorn him in just like for like with Rooney for that position.

[c1982]

53 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I like to let the football talk for its self yesterday was one of our best performances this season in all areas, and with Davies Rooney and Gylfi dominating the middle it gave us the impetus to be more attacking and defensively sound.

Would we have been the same with Gana in instead of Rooney playing the central holding role we won't ever know, but what I can say is that in my opinion no we wouldn't, you can't have the player that you give the most vital role on the pitch to running round like a headless chicken, it leaves you constantly exposed as we've witnessed so many times to our cost in the passed, but not yesterday.

Davies was very poor though. He looked lost for the most part.

[pete0]

3 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Davies was very poor though. He looked lost for the most part.

He doesn't do anything flashy but his positioning, closing, and willingness for the ball and looking forward with it is instrumental to why we were so much better yesterday. He was the pivot, exactly the opposite of Gana, he helps the pace of the play. We miss McCarthy but Davies does a good job and has the potential to be even better than him. 

[MikeO]

What sort of reception did Duffy get from the home fans? Good I hope.

[pete0]

3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

What sort of reception did Duffy get from the home fans? Good I hope.

Even better when he gave us a pen. Once a blue... 

[pete0]

I've used the Palace heat map as it was probably our best game before yesterday. It shows Gana is all over the shop. Compare the to Davies yesterday who holds position and was ticking the back over keeping the tempo and getting this around him involved. That's the big difference. You watch the likes of Burnley's midfield and they are so much more organised than us it's embarrassing and why we are in the position we are. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

So on that basis do you believe he should walk back into the team next week and replace Rooney, I don't which is no surprise just interested what you and others think should happen, without messing with the formation and line up to just shoehorn him in just like for like with Rooney for that position.

No, because i don’t believe in changing a winning team. Plus, it will be a similar type of game i think 

[Bailey]

I think everyone has a point (apart from the Cuco being defensively good enough).

Baines coming back yesterday was huge. You cant compare Cuco's passiveness over the last few months compared to that of Baines' aggressiveness yesterday. He was harassing them in midfield and giving the player on the ball a passing option.

Likewise, Rooney did a brilliant job, along with Davies of protecting that back 4. Rooney had 4 interceptions on his own, added to 1 more from Davies. If you compare a similar game against Palace, Gana had 2 interceptions. Rooney stopped Murray getting the ball into feet and alongside Baines intergration back into the side, it was one of the main reasons why we were able to stop them from getting out and recycle possession.

This is the average position of the side:

Rooney's positioning is perfect, Baines is really high up the pitch and the passing angles for Rooney is great. I think it is telling that our positioning in yesterdays game is more or less perfect. That shows we were balances, everyone was doing their job and that we were in control of the game.

Below is a average position for the Palace game (I thought this was probably the best like for like game that we have played recently):

Cuco is in his own half, Rooney and Gana are sitting along side each other, which as many people have pointed out is largely because Gana needs someone to manage him through the game and whilst its not bad, its just not as balanced.

Going back to Cuco/Baines these are the heat maps, Baines first:

More than anything, it shows how Baines was used as an outlet a lot more. Part of that is due to our higher possession but its also because he is more available and he is trusted.

With Rooney and Gana you can see a similar thing in terms of the intensity of the position and how the key areas are focused around the centre circle and within the width of the 18 yard box, Rooney first:

This is further highlighted by the images below which is listed as touches, again Rooney first:

Almost all of Rooney's are within the width of the box whereas there are quite a few of Gana's that arent. Different match, different tactics etc, I get that, but Rooney in the same game is as follows:

The spacing between them is also interesting, although I am not too sure what that would mean other than that Rooney is having more touches in similar areas, suggesting he is more disciplined in his positioning.

Another example of this discipline is in the interceptions between the two games, Rooney first:

It could all be co-incidental but I thought it was interesting and worth sharing.

Pad made a point that if you play Rooney there against a big side that they would run through him and I do share a similar concern, mainly due to his athleticism more than anything else, but Rooney is a much more intelligent player, he reads the game much better and he is more disciplined. In that respect they are completely different players and it comes down to what you want. Gana can be effective in the right situation, but I dont doubt Rooney would be too. The one thing I would expect is that we would have more possession with Rooney playing ahead of Gana, buts about all I could be confident about.

[pete0]

How come you've compared Rooney to Gana? Rooney does the same role as Schneiderlin whereas as far as I can tell Davies replaces Gana in the side. 

[Sev]

For the (lost counting)th. time. Gana was already a problem last season. I fail to see how some of you great guys didn't see that. And it has been quite clear this season that whomever you put next to Gana plays worse.

Now, you can ask yourself why, but that has been pointed out here numerous times by pete0, Palfy and me.

Even my damn brother saw that last season. I remember him saying something like "You're lucky to have Davies to clean up the mess Gana makes".

Gana is a luxery player you may want to use when the team has a high confidence. Personally I would have sold him in the last transfer window.

[Shukes]

This Gan thing is by far the most daft thing I read on this forum. Easily surpasses the Lukaku topic.

I watch Gana week in week out lol no defence and attack. Then read on here that he never plays the ball forward? It’s like you guys don’t actually watch the matches. I’m sure you would receive more of a balanced argument from others if you gave a balanced opinion of Gana. For example... offer support when he does something good, offer a well done son, when he has a decent shot or makes a good tackle. 

Theres just no balance to your argument. Saying he is a bad player as fact.... is just plain silly. Making out that 99% of the football community, including managers, fans, coaches and pundits are all just wrong about him.... is again plain silly.

Your not right guys, sorry!

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, Shukes said:

This Gan thing is by far the most daft thing I read on this forum. Easily surpasses the Lukaku topic.

I watch Gana week in week out lol no defence and attack. Then read on here that he never plays the ball forward? It’s like you guys don’t actually watch the matches. I’m sure you would receive more of a balanced argument from others if you gave a balanced opinion of Gana. For example... offer support when he does something good, offer a well done son, when he has a decent shot or makes a good tackle. 

Theres just no balance to your argument. Saying he is a bad player as fact.... is just plain silly. Making out that 99% of the football community, including managers, fans, coaches and pundits are all just wrong about him.... is again plain silly.

Your not right guys, sorry!

Shukes we have given balanced arguments as to why we don't think he should be in the team, you just don't agree with them that's your prerogative it doesn't make you or us silly for having different opinions.

So you have it on good authority that 99% of the footballing community believe he's a good player, that's just fantasy you have no evidence for such a statement.

Just looked through some of the match day threads you hardly see any good comments on his performance, you seem to see as many negative as positive during game time, and before you say that's from us three you'd be wrong so we aren't the only ones guilty of not praising his game play, neither do the 99%.

[Shukes]

With all respect Palfy, saying that he is a bad footballer and stating it as fact.... is wrong, that is factual. Having your own opinion is fine, but you need to recognise it’s just that, and is in no way a fact.

My 99% comment is a simple statement and nothing more, I’m not pretending it’s based on any factual evidence at all, but I can base it on an educated guess based on what I read in newspapers, see on TV, see with my own eyes, and recognise that managers pick him regularly. That suggests that he is rated does it not? So really it’s not fantasy is it.

I understand you don’t rate him, that’s fine and I respect that. You do put your argument forward in detail.But you comment that anyone who does rate him are just sheep. Well that’s disrespectful and not fair on the fans who are more than intelligent enough to make up those own opinion. No one is saying he is a world beater, but we do recognise the job that he does for the club.

[Hafnia]

I always liked Joe Parkinson..... it seems I was wrong to rate him. 

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, hafnia said:

I always liked Joe Parkinson..... it seems I was wrong to rate him. 

I liked Parkinson as well, was this forum around when he played I also liked Barmby  and Hutchinson would I have been slaughtered for that on this forum.

[Hafnia]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I liked Parkinson as well, was this forum around when he played I also liked Barmby  and Hutchinson would I have been slaughtered for that on this forum.

No all were good players but you liked Parkinson but see no place for gana???

Gana is essentially a Joe Parkinson type player.  Nothing creative but all about breaking up the play ... that was good enough for us. 

[Wiggytop]

I don't think yesterday's performance was down to any one player, we actually seemed to have a balanced team from the start.

Having Baines back is a real bonus, it seemed to allow the LCH to focus on his game and not worry about covering Cuco ( not going to put all blame on him, but he is clearly a wink link at LB) which in turn meant the RCH wasn't worrying about having to cover his partner, and Coleman brings balance to the right, Kenny did a good job, but needs more experience which is understandable.

Cenk gave us an outlet for the back, he both held up play and also brought both wingers and the midfield into the game.

Twp proper wingers gave us the width and pace in attack we've missed, and allowed the midfield to play as a unit.

Finally with all of the above the threat on our goal was reduced, apart from a couple of brain farts towards the end.

Same team Saturday and move on ASAP Sam, still don't want you here.

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, hafnia said:

No all were good players but you liked Parkinson but see no place for gana???

Gana is essentially a Joe Parkinson type player.  Nothing creative but all about breaking up the play ... that was good enough for us. 

I remember Parkinson being like a Batty type more than  Ganaesk but I would to be fair.

[Hafnia]

Just now, Palfy said:

I remember Parkinson being like a Batty type more than  Ganaesk but I would to be fair.

Joe Parkinson in some programme notes described gana as a player he identified with most.... a key player to the team. 

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

I don't think yesterday's performance was down to any one player, we actually seemed to have a balanced team from the start.

Having Baines back is a real bonus, it seemed to allow the LCH to focus on his game and not worry about covering Cuco ( not going to put all blame on him, but he is clearly a wink link at LB) which in turn meant the RCH wasn't worrying about having to cover his partner, and Coleman brings balance to the right, Kenny did a good job, but needs more experience which is understandable.

Cenk gave us an outlet for the back, he both held up play and also brought both wingers and the midfield into the game.

Twp proper wingers gave us the width and pace in attack we've missed, and allowed the midfield to play as a unit.

Finally with all of the above the threat on our goal was reduced, apart from a couple of brain farts towards the end.

Same team Saturday and move on ASAP Sam, still don't want you here.

I agree with that whole heartily.