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Stadium - All ifs, buts and maybes...

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3 hours ago, Shukes said:

I’m happy for us to go bigger, means I have a better chance of getting a season ticket. Hoping with the current holders, a 10k waiting list and adding a huge lid of seats... I might get a chance.

they are adding 14k seats and only have 10k on the list.  you will get a ticket no doubt, math says so :)

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6 hours ago, Bill said:

A lot off suggestion about revenue from the seats but its not about that, its about getting more supporters in the ground who are not able to get in now. It will also produce more sound to roar the team on.

52 thou is selling ourselves short, Newcastle get 50 thou every home game even when they were bottom of the league early this season.  You must have heard of that famous saying, " If you build it they will come".  If we don't build it now 62 thou will never happen. And we will forever be 2nd behind that other team.

There is only one team in Newcastle so that’s a poor comparison and what happens if we go straight to 60 k and end up with a half empty stadium every week?

I honestly think selling 52k  every week is optermistic at the moment

If they get this wrong we’re fucked for life, building an iconic 52k stadium on the banks of the Mersey is hardly playing it safe,  and having an option to extend makes sense if it proves the demand is there, but going all in on 62k would be reckless IMO

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8 minutes ago, pete0 said:

It's easy enough to cover seats at the top with a banner. Put Everton/NSNO or advertising covering the seats for games we don't sell out. 

They have done that at my local baseball team stadium (progressive field) except they covered the seats with structures in the upper decks. It looks awful an it’s a punchline to endless Jokes.  I would not want to do that.

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4 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

A banner wouldn’t effect it in the slightest, a half empty stadium on the other hand ....

Wouldn't be half empty. You take the back 5 rows of every stand and you wouldn't even notice. Or take 20 rows on one stand and put a banner over them or errect boarding to hide the seats and effectively be a fake wall we can put advertising on. 

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4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Wouldn't be half empty. You take the back 5 rows of every stand and you wouldn't even notice. Or take 20 rows on one stand and put a banner over them or errect boarding to hide the seats and effectively be a fake wall we can put advertising on. 

Why would you even want to be in a situation where the club cover up unused seats? Why spend millions on an extra 10,000 seats to cover them up when there is an option to just build them in if they are needed?

if we are selling out 52,000 every week and still have a waiting list after maybe five years they will build it up, if not, they won’t. No loss. 

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6 minutes ago, StevO said:

Why would you even want to be in a situation where the club cover up unused seats? Why spend millions on an extra 10,000 seats to cover them up when there is an option to just build them in if they are needed?

if we are selling out 52,000 every week and still have a waiting list after maybe five years they will build it up, if not, they won’t. No loss. 

We don't know if they will be needed but it would be more cost effective to build them now than later down the line. Saves money and shows ambition, at worst we cover them up for bottom half games. 

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9 minutes ago, pete0 said:

We don't know if they will be needed but it would be more cost effective to build them now than later down the line. Saves money and shows ambition, at worst we cover them up for bottom half games. 

That’s the point though, it’s not more cost effective as there is risk. The more seats you build the more it costs per seat, and then empty seats bring no return. It might show ambition, but it could cost a load of money for nothing. This way we still expand and future proof the stadium should the need to expand arise. 

I would trust the experts opinion anyway, they know more than we do. 

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8 hours ago, pete0 said:

Wouldn't be half empty. You take the back 5 rows of every stand and you wouldn't even notice. Or take 20 rows on one stand and put a banner over them or errect boarding to hide the seats and effectively be a fake wall we can put advertising on. 

😂😂

I get it now , if we hide them we can pretend that they aren’t really there!

Why don’t we just save ourselves a ton of money and paint a fake new tier above the Park End that holds 50k fake fans then we can pretend we have the largest ground in the Prem?

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52k is more than enough at the moment and has Wiggytop said carry on playing like we are why bother moving, we are going to lose a lot of the next generation of Liverpool supporters to the shite if we don't keep in contact with them, so let's get the team right before we consider we need 62k stadium or we could playing in front of 32k in the near future.

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We've got five years to build a team that will fill a new stadium.

Recently had an extension built on my property, after agreeing a price the builder asked me if I wanted to go further out,  when I asked why he said its better to get more space now because if you have second thoughts later on its going to cost you as much again. He wasn't bothered where he built the gable end  it was the same wall but just in a different place, we got a five foot extension when we only planned for a metre.

Moral of the story is .. build it bigger, who's worried if some seats are empty, they will always be there. If you don't put them there in the initial build, it will cost a lot more money to extend at a later date.

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8 hours ago, Bill said:

We've got five years to build a team that will fill a new stadium.

Recently had an extension built on my property, after agreeing a price the builder asked me if I wanted to go further out,  when I asked why he said its better to get more space now because if you have second thoughts later on its going to cost you as much again. He wasn't bothered where he built the gable end  it was the same wall but just in a different place, we got a five foot extension when we only planned for a metre.

Moral of the story is .. build it bigger, who's worried if some seats are empty, they will always be there. If you don't put them there in the initial build, it will cost a lot more money to extend at a later date.

I wouldn’t have thought the consequences of you not filling a few extra feet in your extension would be quite the same as Everton not being able to fill the ground

i mean if you find you have no real use for the extra space you could just nip down to Ikea and buy a computer desk or something to fill the gap

Not quite the same as Everton having 10000 odd empty seats on a Saturday 

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6 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I wouldn’t have thought the consequences of you not filling a few extra feet in your extension would be quite the same as Everton not being able to fill the ground

i mean if you find you have no real use for the extra space you could just nip down to Ikea and by a computer desktop something to fill the gap

Not quite the same as Everton having 10000 odd empty seats on a Saturday 

You may be onto something there Dunc; desks at the back of every top tier with computers so the faithful can report back to TT at their leisure, bit like the library only louder (unless we're 6-2 down in which case quieter than the library:unsure:).

It'd certainly help me to do MOTM threads when I'm at a game!

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34 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I wouldn’t have thought the consequences of you not filling a few extra feet in your extension would be quite the same as Everton not being able to fill the ground

i mean if you find you have no real use for the extra space you could just nip down to Ikea and buy a computer desk or something to fill the gap

Not quite the same as Everton having 10000 odd empty seats on a Saturday 

😂

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There you go again Dunc trying to be facetious, the moral of the story was build it bigger initially, its not about putting a few sofas in the back room. Whatever it costs to put extra seats in a Stadium now would  cost a five times more if you have to put them in later, because you have to build an extension to put them in.  Its The extension  that will cost five times  more than the seats.

I think they've already made their mind up, there won't be any addition in the future.

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5 minutes ago, Bill said:

There you go again Dunc, the moral of the story was build it bigger initially, its not about putting a few sofas in the back room. Whatever it costs to put extra seats in a Stadium now would  cost a five times more if you have to put them in later, because you have to build an extension to put them in.

Yeah but would you have been likely to decide in the future that your extension's not big enough so you need an extra half a metre Bill? My guess would be not. If the stadium is built with the expansion in mind presumably the clever dudes who design these things will make it "easy" to do; I'm no builder or civil engineer but surely if they build with expansion in mind they do just that, they don't go back to the drawing board when the time comes, they already have the plans drawn.

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29 minutes ago, Bill said:

There you go again Dunc trying to be facetious, the moral of the story was build it bigger initially, its not about putting a few sofas in the back room. Whatever it costs to put extra seats in a Stadium now would  cost a five times more if you have to put them in later, because you have to build an extension to put them in.  Its The extension  that will cost five times  more than the seats.

I think they've already made their mind up, there won't be any addition in the future.

 Cool your jets Bill just a bit of banter I’m not trying to offend, sorry if it came across that way

Point still stands though, if the club dives straight into 60k there is no going back. They’ve haven’t just plucked a figure out of the air, they’ve consulted with experts before deciding on 52k

If there was no option to extend I could understand your point but why take an unnecessary gamble ? 

As Mike says if the original design incorporates the option to extend where is the problem?

 

 

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So by that way of thinking they build the stadium big enough for 62 thousand seats but only put 52 thousand in.

I think that theory is seriously flawed,  its like me making my room extension larger but not putting any extra furniture in, crazy assumption.

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3 minutes ago, Bill said:

So by that way of thinking they build the stadium big enough for 62 thousand seats but only put 52 thousand in.

I think that theory is seriously flawed,  its like me making my room extension larger but not putting any extra furniture in, crazy assumption.

It’s not even like that a little bit. You aren’t an expert on stadium design and build process, the people employed by the club are. 

They will just leave space for a coupe of extra tiers and if we don’t need them we don’t need them, if we do then they will expand. 

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It’ll be what it’ll be and I’m sure I’ll love the place. The location is superb, great architect (in principle) and finally believe it will happen. I hope it’s only a consultation and we go up to 55k as I doubt I’ll get to see the extension in my lifetime. I don’t want empty seats week in week out but i don’t want fans shut out either. Within reason the second outweighs the first for me.

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16 hours ago, Bill said:

But you are are you Steve,?  So there's empty spaces where there could be seats, that will not improve the atmosphere.

You do know they aren’t building it the size of a 62k seater and just not putting seats in right? 

If they feel the need to expand they will have to build an extra tier or two for the additional 10k seats, it won’t be a space where seats could be. 

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And I refer you back to my previous post Steve, it will cost five times more to build an extension than to put the seats into the original build.

That's my last post so I'll leave you to have the last word.

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On 24/12/2018 at 12:42, Bill said:

We've got five years to build a team that will fill a new stadium.

Recently had an extension built on my property, after agreeing a price the builder asked me if I wanted to go further out,  when I asked why he said its better to get more space now because if you have second thoughts later on its going to cost you as much again. He wasn't bothered where he built the gable end  it was the same wall but just in a different place, we got a five foot extension when we only planned for a metre.

Moral of the story is .. build it bigger, who's worried if some seats are empty, they will always be there. If you don't put them there in the initial build, it will cost a lot more money to extend at a later date.

Bill,  I think the real reason was that the builder only had an 'imperial' tape measure and hadn't a clue what a metre was.😄

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6 hours ago, Bill said:

And I refer you back to my previous post Steve, it will cost five times more to build an extension than to put the seats into the original build.

That's my last post so I'll leave you to have the last word.

But you have no evidence to support your idea that it will cost five times more to extend it though. You’re just making that up, I just don’t understand why.

You really have no faith in the club to look at these options properly?

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http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2019/01/01/keith-harris

 

Quote

Keith [Harris], the transition to a new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is, of course, an enormous project for the Club. Recent progress includes the 19-day public consultation, which ended several weeks ago and drew an outstanding response, and the confirmation of a proposed capacity of 52,000 with potential to expand to 62,000...

It’s important to reiterate this is what we are working towards. It’s a proposed capacity at this stage, which will be subject to further consultation and engagement, and the potential is there for expansion. We will have a degree of flexibility during a possible period of discussion on safe standing. This is a really significant option to have in the future. We want to be able to reproduce and even enhance as much of the Goodison atmosphere as possible in the new stadium.

Of course, there is still much work to be done. This will not only establish a new home for the Club in an iconic setting on the Liverpool waterfront, it will provide a regenerative boost for the entire city region and a legacy at Goodison that we can all be proud of. So we are all very focussed on a project the scale and ambition of which can most certainly be characterised as huge for the Club.

With the second-stage public consultation taking place this summer, the Club will present designs for the first time...

Yes, a lot of work has gone into design and, of course, it is continuing to be honed. The site itself is fantastic, but we have challenges. The fact that the stadium is being built on a dock is an obvious one, along with infrastructure and transportation links. But the end result – next to the Mersey, glowing in the northern part of the docks, the culture and some of the historical legacy of Everton stamped upon it – will be incredible. We’re all very enthused by this. I’ve seen stadia all over the world, I’ve been involved in many stadium projects, including Wembley, and I think I can say with complete confidence and conviction that I haven’t seen anything that will look as good as this will. It will truly be something that will inspire.

 

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On 01/01/2019 at 08:24, Shukes said:

I can’t wait for the summer. Let’s take a look at some designs and see the clubs vision.

Should we expect no news until then? Funding? Announcements on other developments in the immediate vicinity of the stadium - condos/retail/parks etc.? 

Genuinely asking as an American whose processes for stuff like this could be vastly different.

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10 hours ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Should we expect no news until then? Funding? Announcements on other developments in the immediate vicinity of the stadium - condos/retail/parks etc.? 

Genuinely asking as an American whose processes for stuff like this could be vastly different.

I would like to see some kind of news, but not sure if I should be expecting. First new stadium for me.

Didnt really take notice if Wembley etc. 

I live in a very small world that involves Everton and my family/ Friends haha.

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On 21/12/2018 at 05:34, Romey 1878 said:

We’ll never actually expand. Dreaming if you think we will. 

West Ham will eventually have more than that as they receive permission to up the seats used. Tottenham’s new one will when it opens. Arsenal will probably up their capacity to keep up with Spurs. City will end up going well past that. The shite as well more than likely. 

I just feel we’re hokding ourselves back unnecessarily. 

Do we really care that the Emptyhad is going to have more empty seats in the future?

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On 02/01/2019 at 20:20, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Should we expect no news until then? Funding? Announcements on other developments in the immediate vicinity of the stadium - condos/retail/parks etc.? 

Genuinely asking as an American whose processes for stuff like this could be vastly different.

If you want to see what the immediate vicinity will look like just google Liverpool Waters. It’s a massive project and will take years so finish, expect to see all completed it later than 2030 myself, but it does look very impressive. 

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I’ve just watched a video from the fan familiarisation days at the new Spurs stadium. In the section of their big home end they have said it is ready for safe standing. In readiness they have already put the guard rails in. Which to me looks like they have sort of put safe standing in, apart from the seats not locking in position. I’m pretty sure the fans in that stand will just he stood against the rails rather than sat down. Sneaky, but a bit of a smart way around the current rules. Try getting about 7,000 people to sit down at the same time. 

It also looks like the most amazing stadium I’ve ever seen. 

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53 minutes ago, Matt said:

It’ll be a big shame if the LCC loan isn’t used but I understand why it wouldn’t be 

Club might get a better deal elsewhere.

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55 minutes ago, Makis said:

Club might get a better deal elsewhere.

True, but the city misses out on millions. Especially important since funding from the EU will soon disappear 

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

I don’t buy that. Are they so petty they’d fuck over their own city?

i think it’s to avoid any political complications 

Yes they are.

I'm not saying they've actually prevented this, but that the stink their fans kicked up when it was first mooted and would inevitably have kicked up if we went down that road will have been a factor in us not doing it. 

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It seems they are using the council money from what Moshiri said...

"I have spent £250m to turn a museum into a competitive outfit, we will complete the stadium. We will raise £350m through the city, the naming rights will be some more. There is an equity gap of £100m. This club is sufficiently robust to see this project through. 

"If we want a big club we need a modern stadium."

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8 minutes ago, StevO said:

It seems they are using the council money from what Moshiri said...

"I have spent £250m to turn a museum into a competitive outfit, we will complete the stadium. We will raise £350m through the city, the naming rights will be some more. There is an equity gap of £100m. This club is sufficiently robust to see this project through. 

"If we want a big club we need a modern stadium."

When was that from though?

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2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Yes they are.

I'm not saying they've actually prevented this, but that the stink their fans kicked up when it was first mooted and would inevitably have kicked up if we went down that road will have been a factor in us not doing it. 

I don’t see their fans having any impact on anything 

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20 minutes ago, rubecula said:

How much! 

300million for 15000 seats? If so approx. I've better to develop GPS imho

But it will cost more to develop GP. It’s not just about the extra seats, it’s about the all round facilities. Anyone who’s been in the changing rooms will tell you they are not premier league standard, and there is no room inside the stadium to expand these things. Then there is the lack of corporate facilities, not enough room for the general fans in comparison with other stadiums, terrible leg room and small concourses. It’s the whole package. I’m sure you’ll love the new stadium when you get in it Rubes. 

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