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Stadium - All ifs, buts and maybes...

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31 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

i love it, 200m naming rights.  more like usmanov and moshiri are partners on it

But not officially which continues to worry me. We’re using loopholes and they tend to get punished eventually 

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2 hours ago, Makis said:

It's not that much. 10+ years means less than 20 million per year. Spurs are looking for 40 million p/a.

Maybe that’s why nobody has taken them up on it! 

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22 hours ago, barryj said:

Maybe that’s why nobody has taken them up on it! 

Point was, if Spurs value their naming rights at that level, Everton getting less than half shouldn't cause any issues.

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On 17/03/2020 at 03:38, Matt said:

But not officially which continues to worry me. We’re using loopholes and they tend to get punished eventually 

What’s the difference though to what other clubs are doing? Because He isn’t an official sponsor we can’t sell naming rights to him? 

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7 hours ago, Btay said:

What’s the difference though to what other clubs are doing? Because He isn’t an official sponsor we can’t sell naming rights to him? 

It’s not that, it just all seems underhand and it makes me uncomfortable 

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2 minutes ago, Matt said:

It’s not that, it just all seems underhand and it makes me uncomfortable 

The reality is that unless there is proof that he "owns" the club then he is free to sponsor us.

For years it was clear that Phillip Green was running and fleecing our club via a proxy... I didn't see the protecting us then with our "operating costs" seemingly leaving us without money to spend 

Usmanov has got the best financial brains on his payroll.  Man City will hopefully fight UEFA and get some sanity on FFP... Martin Samuel wrote a great piece on why it's geared to protect the established commercial clubs from getting caught by clubs with rich owners. 

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On 17/03/2020 at 20:56, Makis said:

It's not that much. 10+ years means less than 20 million per year. Spurs are looking for 40 million p/a.

It’s the third highest deal in the Prem behind United (26.75m) and City (21.9m)

Not a chance Spurs are going to get anywhere near £40m

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8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Love that idea. I’m pretty sure that second statue is Howard Kendall. I’ve already made my thoughts clear that the home end should be named after him (a link to the current Gwladys Street stand too) and it would be fitting to walk past a statue of him as you approach the stand from the fan plaza. 

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2 hours ago, Matt said:

Well that’s not really encouraging at all

It suggests that someone he's been in negotiation with and been told that the project was on has told him in now isn't. Bramley Moore is so far down the line now what could we have done? Sacked him and hired someone else? Binned the whole thing?

Not a chance, not remotely bothered here.

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1 hour ago, StevO said:

Disappointed Dan isn’t going to be involved in the rest of it. 

If he's not then a great shame no doubt.

45 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Why has that made me feel sick in my stomach. Are we here again?

Taking emotion aside; he's the architect, he did the research and drew the plans which went forward for planning permission (and no doubt was paid a lot of money for his services). May sound harsh, and I'm no expert, but is his role not now largely complete? If permission is granted the contractors have the blueprints to work from then why do we need his services any more?

He's still saying that whatever has happened he's still certain the project will go ahead and he'll forever be "the man" who brought it to life. I'd be very sad if there's been any falling out with him but business is business.

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True MikeO.

I should know better as it’s my job. Customer gets drawings from an architect, then gives me the drawings to carry out the build.

I have just been here so many times before and if this one falls through.... it’s not just us not getting a new hone, but all the stock from those shitty lot I would have to put up with.... I’m sure I’ll go to jail.

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One potential problem is without him being there to direct it the developers might drop the spec to make a bigger profit themselves. 

Sad that he's had a petty dig on twitter. He should have had it already formally agreed or made a better bid himself. 

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5 hours ago, pete0 said:

One potential problem is without him being there to direct it the developers might drop the spec to make a bigger profit themselves. 

Sad that he's had a petty dig on twitter. He should have had it already formally agreed or made a better bid himself. 

This is what I’m concerned about the most. Cost saving at the expense of losing the real quality and vision of a world renowned architect who has engaged very well in my opinion with the fans and community. His name will go hand in hand with this stadium now and I imagine that’s why he’s annoyed. If things turn out badly (no suggesting they will) it’s his reputation at stake. I think I would feel the same if I had invested so much in the project. I understand the pay cheque will easy the pain a little though.  

17 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Arsed? I’m not. As has been said, he’s done his job and we felt someone else would be a better fit for the next stage of the project. I want the best stadium we can get, there’s no room for sentiment. 

Business is business but from what I’ve read on a big iconic project like this that will be our home for generations to come I want it done and done well. This would normally mean the architect (artist) should be there to the end in some capacity. Sentiment does go out of the window but bad choices will live with us for a very long time. Slight bitter taste in my mouth and leaves me wondering what he’ll say at a later date (as he’s alluded to).

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6 hours ago, pete0 said:

One potential problem is without him being there to direct it the developers might drop the spec to make a bigger profit themselves.

Pattern oversaw the City of Manchester stadium build and the expansion in 2010 among many others worldwide including two new places for the WC in Qatar, decent CV. Don't look like a company that will "drop spec" to me.

https://www.pattern-architects.com/projects/

"Pattern were invited by the club to join the Design Team, led by New York-based MEIS Architects, as Technical Architect."

"As a RIBA chartered practice, one of Pattern’s key roles is to present the design intent and win planning for this ambitious and challenging project. The Bramley-Moore Dock site is located within a UNESCO World Heritage site, the Liverpool waterfront being an area of historical significance. To meet the exciting challenge of addressing this historic site sensitively, Pattern’s heritage experts, based in the Edinburgh studio are supporting the London design team. Composed of senior architects specialising in conservation and historical monuments, our conservation team have consulted on architectural projects in other UNESCO World Heritage Sites, most prominently Edinburgh.

Pattern is also responsible for specialist sports planning and technical architectural consultancy to ensure the smooth delivery that is so critical to the client’s goals."

https://www.pattern-architects.com/project/bramley-moore-stadium-everton-fc/

Seem like a good fit for me.

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3 hours ago, barryj said:

This is what I’m concerned about the most. Cost saving at the expense of losing the real quality and vision of a world renowned architect who has engaged very well in my opinion with the fans and community. His name will go hand in hand with this stadium now and I imagine that’s why he’s annoyed. If things turn out badly (no suggesting they will) it’s his reputation at stake. I think I would feel the same if I had invested so much in the project. I understand the pay cheque will easy the pain a little though.  

Business is business but from what I’ve read on a big iconic project like this that will be our home for generations to come I want it done and done well. This would normally mean the architect (artist) should be there to the end in some capacity. Sentiment does go out of the window but bad choices will live with us for a very long time. Slight bitter taste in my mouth and leaves me wondering what he’ll say at a later date (as he’s alluded to).

I’m not interested in listening to him have another whinge tbh. Sour grapes in the extreme and he showed a massive lack of professionalism with his tweets over it.

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2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Pattern oversaw the City of Manchester stadium build and the expansion in 2010 among many others worldwide including two new places for the WC in Qatar, decent CV. Don't look like a company that will "drop spec" to me.

https://www.pattern-architects.com/projects/

"Pattern were invited by the club to join the Design Team, led by New York-based MEIS Architects, as Technical Architect."

"As a RIBA chartered practice, one of Pattern’s key roles is to present the design intent and win planning for this ambitious and challenging project. The Bramley-Moore Dock site is located within a UNESCO World Heritage site, the Liverpool waterfront being an area of historical significance. To meet the exciting challenge of addressing this historic site sensitively, Pattern’s heritage experts, based in the Edinburgh studio are supporting the London design team. Composed of senior architects specialising in conservation and historical monuments, our conservation team have consulted on architectural projects in other UNESCO World Heritage Sites, most prominently Edinburgh.

Pattern is also responsible for specialist sports planning and technical architectural consultancy to ensure the smooth delivery that is so critical to the client’s goals."

https://www.pattern-architects.com/project/bramley-moore-stadium-everton-fc/

Seem like a good fit for me.

thanks mike this is a very sensible move it seems especially with the UNESCO experience they have (and meis doesn't).  nice to see a "thinking evertonian" response to this drama with meis.

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Just now, markjazzbassist said:

thanks mike this is a very sensible move it seems especially with the UNESCO experience they have (and meis doesn't).  nice to see a "thinking evertonian" response to this drama with meis.

Evertonians being Evertonians. We have the habit of seeing things in a negative light (we’re all guilty of it at times). 

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22 hours ago, MikeO said:

If he's not then a great shame no doubt.

Taking emotion aside; he's the architect, he did the research and drew the plans which went forward for planning permission (and no doubt was paid a lot of money for his services). May sound harsh, and I'm no expert, but is his role not now largely complete? If permission is granted the contractors have the blueprints to work from then why do we need his services any more?

He's still saying that whatever has happened he's still certain the project will go ahead and he'll forever be "the man" who brought it to life. I'd be very sad if there's been any falling out with him but business is business.

Standard practice for all elements to go out to tender, welcome to my world nothing is guaranteed in the building industry until you’ve got the order signed off and in your hand. 

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On 25/06/2020 at 20:22, Romey 1878 said:

Evertonians being Evertonians. We have the habit of seeing things in a negative light (we’re all guilty of it at times). 

Well on the bright side they provided full architectural and masterplanning services for the Worcestershire Parkway railway station, which opened in February 2020. It is a glass and brick structure so they’ll be experienced in that. The project was delayed but I can’t blame them as when are trains ever on time? 😂

https://planetradio.co.uk/free/local/news/it-out-of-our-hands-worcestershire-county-council-have-delayed-opening-new-train-station/

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8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Meis has actually been dropped at this stage in a previous project, so I really don’t see what’s got his (or our fans) knickers in a twist. 

I assume because he got really attached to the club as well as the project, and now he’s been dropped. I don’t blame him at all. 
although it’s not Everton that made the decision, still think we should’ve done something 

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