Jump to content
IGNORED

Blue Bill's shiny new stadium at the docks...


Lowensda

Recommended Posts

Pad, quote doesn't work on my phone, but go to any other ground that is city based and access is always poor. I can get to and from Goodison a lot easier than City fans can get too and from the Etihad unless they get the tram, which we won't have the benefit of in our city.

 

Water front would be great, would have the train lines but not great access either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

The Stonebridge site is the water treatment site that borders the A 5080, Stonebridge Lane and Lower Lane. The Aintree hospital is yards from the site. The site was offered to Everton by the Council about ten years ago, maybe more.

Transport appears a problem as was the case for Kirkby which was a major factor in rejection of the stadium. The site is on a junction of the M57, and the A580 trunk A road (the UKs first 'motorway' the Liverpool East Lanacashire Road) which a good thing. The nearest Merseyrail station is at Fazakerley, 1km away from the nearest point of the site down Lower Lane on the A560. This is on the Kirby Line and is two track unlike the Kirby station which was single track and single platform. Merseyrail could only give to Everton on match days a very poor six 6 cars trains per hour at Kirkby. Each train holds over 900 with a crush. So dispersal of fans via rail was poor at Kirby taking about 4,000-5,000 per hour. A point criticised was that the Kirby Line does not serve the Wirral directly, of which EFC have a large fanbase.

Fazakerley is in a cutting so it would be very expensive to expand the station to have more platforms. But the two tracks means it can take more trains per hour. The Merseyrail line terminates at Kirkby. A diesel train from Kirkby runs to Manchester via Wigan. There is a proposal to electrify, double track and extend the line from Kirkby to Sklemersdale, and also to terminate the Merseyrail line at Wigan. Manchester has proposed to run their Metrolink trams to the same Wigan station. So direct to Liverpool's centre, Skem and Wigan and a change at Wigan and into Manchester, which is a good thing to disperse fans and gain more support fropm these places. But Fazakerley is restricted to a two platform station is a great constraint.

If the Outer Loop line is recommissioned a station could be built 1.5km down the A580 at the bridge at Walton Hall Ave. Again a good thing as it is a different line and can run directly to South Parkway station (excellent for visiting fans). The two stations would give a decent dispersal rate of fans - but neither are actually on the doorstep of the stadium site and to get a station near to the site would be expensive

Road dispersal is good with three large dual carriageways of: Walton Hall Ave, Townsend Ave and Utting Ave. The A560 is also near, as is the M57 on the stadium's doorstep.

All this looks sort of good on the transport front, but only if money is spent by the Dept For Transport on rail. Otherwise it may go the same way as Kirkby.

The site.
http://uploads.im/C32Yp.jpg

 

C32Yp.jpg

Edited by John Burns
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stonebridge Cross looks a shite location. My bet is city is offering it because they already spent 1.5 million on developing the site because they thought Amazon was going to build a warehouse there. When that didn't happen they were left with a tract of land no-one wants.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

The North End site is not that clear. If it is directly on the docks there are problems as these are a World Heritage Site. Lengthy delays in inquiries, objections, etc. The city would be in danger of losing its World Heritage status if it built a stadium directly on the docks. There are ramshackle businesses just off the Dock Road to the east, these are favourite to be cleared and relocated to new business parks on the outers of the city. Sandhills station is near and also a new station could be built on the Northern Line. The stadium cannot be too close to the city centre as the Business Quarter needs to extend north

 

Putting the stadium too near the city centre is not a good thing. The wider social acceptability of regular crowds of thousands of men marching around, foul mouthed, occasionally hurling abuse with sporadic outbreaks of violence will not be accepted. It would be detrimental to the future expansion of the city centre, by lowering its quality and image. A positive image is something the city needs in train loads. The city of Liverpool wants to shed this mainly football image it has and create a more wider and diverse sophisticated image.

 

Anywhere close to, or in, the city centre is going to have a great impact on the surrounding districts. On match days the area will be given over to football fans. They will clog the already busting at the seams transport infrastructure and pubs and bars. The problem is all day. That is not the way to run an effective working, shopping and leisure focused city centre.

Edited by John Burns
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The North End site is not that clear. If it is directly on the docks there are problems as these are a World Heritage Site. Lengthy delays in inquiries, objections, etc. The city would be in danger of losing its World Heritage status if it built a stadium directly on the docks. There are ramshackle businesses just off the Dock Road to the east, these are favourite to be cleared and relocated to new business parks on the outers of the city. Sandhills station is near and also a new station could be built on the Northern Line. The stadium cannot be too close to the city centre as the Business Quarter needs to extend north

 

Putting the stadium too near the city centre is not a good thing. The wider social acceptability of regular crowds of thousands of men marching around, foul mouthed, occasionally hurling abuse with sporadic outbreaks of violence will not be accepted. It would be detrimental to the future expansion of the city centre, by lowering it quality and image. A positive image is something the city needs in train loads. The city of Liverpool wants to shed this mainly football image it has and create a more wider and diverse sophisticated image.

 

Anywhere close to, or in, the city centre is going to have a great impact on the surrounding districts. On match days the area will be given over to football fans. They will clog the already busting at the seams transport infrastructure. The problem is all day. That is not the way to run an effective working, shopping and leisure focused city centre.

They got the go ahead for the Echo arena (looks awful in my opinion) and that ridiculous multi-story car park. If the design was original / special etc, would it still be an issue?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

They got the go ahead for the Echo arena (looks awful in my opinion) and that ridiculous multi-story car park. If the design was original / special etc, would it still be an issue?

I agree that the Arena is awful and that appalling exhibition shed next to it is a disgrace. What a waste of a superb site that could have made the city. UNESCO were seriously looking into stripping Liverpool of its World Heritage Site status if Peel's cheap and nasty Liverpool Waters plan went ahead. It was awful and had no respect for the history of the maritime site.

 

If Everton get a stadium right in the docks forget about any vision of Liverpool Waters being a beacon for the future. Like the South Docks with the Arena and the Exhibition Centre, it will be killed stone dead. The Liverpool Waters site is ideal for a dramatic world renowned opera house. Not a large concrete and steel football stadium used about 25-30 days per year.

Edited by John Burns
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Putting the stadium too near the city centre is not a good thing. The wider social acceptability of regular crowds of thousands of men marching around, foul mouthed, occasionally hurling abuse with sporadic outbreaks of violence will not be accepted. It would be detrimental to the future expansion of the city centre, by lowering its quality and image. A positive image is something the city needs in train loads. The city of Liverpool wants to shed this mainly football image it has and create a more wider and diverse sophisticated image.

Oh, you want the rail thing so bad you rather Everton relocate to some shitty location so that the rail network is a must than have Everton relocate to a prime location?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

Oh, you want the rail thing so bad you rather Everton relocate to some shitty location so that the rail network is a must than have Everton relocate to a prime location?

You do not appear to be very bright. Sad but true. Poor transport provision scuppered Kirkby, I mentioned that. Liverpool has a mass-transit network, did you know? Anyone with a small amount of common sense would say use that for large nuisance crowds, of which stadia produces. Take the lines to the stadium or take the stadium to the lines. The site is only bordered on one side by residential property and only their gardens. A shelter belt of trees can be planted in front of the houses. The Stonebridge site is not 'shitty' at all, it is good. Not the best but good. It can get better for transport provision drawing in more fans from the east of the city, as I explained. I explained the positive points. All obvious. Please try.

 

A 'prime location' is one with:

  • direct motorway access - Stonebridge has it.
  • Lots of dual carriageways trunks roads - Stonebridge has it.
  • Surrounded by mainly non-residential property - Stonebridge has it.
  • Has excellent mass-transit access - Stonebridge is not bad, but can be far, far better with investment. Investment that benefits the city as whole as well.

Stonebridge is a Prime Site.

Edited by John Burns
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do not appear to be very bright. Sad but true. Poor transport provision scuppered Kirkby, I mentioned that. Liverpool has a mass-transit network, did you know? Anyone with a small amount of common sense would say use that for large nuisance crowds, of which stadia produces. Take the lines to the stadium or take the stadium to the lines. The site is only bordered on one side by residential property and only their gardens. A shelter belt of trees can be planted in front of the houses. The Stonebridge site is not 'shitty' at all, it is good. Not the best but good. It can get better for transport provision drawing in more fans from the east of the city, as I explained. I explained the positive points. All obvious. Please try.

It's usually a few more posts before you start insulting peoples intelligence. You've been warned about it before, so please cut it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

No one actually likes Opera.

I do and I know many who do as well. An opera singer sang at Leicester in front of Everton fans last week. Did you notice? I know many opera fans who do not like football as well. Maybe the football stadia should be demolished and taken out of town and only opera is catered for in the city just for them. That would be narrow minded bigotry of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

Where do you build a stadium if you don't want any residential areas anywhere near it, but still has good rail links?

An extension to Finch Farm, which was an option. A Merseyrail line can be branched off at Halewood station and run past the site, past Hale Village and into the airport - killing many birds with one stone. The London line runs past the site. It is 4 track (2 fast, 2 slow) so a station can be built at the site. Nearby there is a the M57, the road Widnes, the dual carriageways to Liverpool, etc.

 

But Fat Joe wants the rates from the stadium to go into his coffers, so will object and object because the stadium would be outside the city. But Liverpool Council own the land of Finch Farm.

BTW, EFC are building a new 5,000 seater youth stadium at Finch Farm.

Edited by John Burns
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

It's usually a few more posts before you start insulting peoples intelligence. You've been warned about it before, so please cut it out.

It was not an insult. It was an observation. When I do insult it can be in spadefuls and there no ambiguity. But I never. Read back he started it? Not me. He was insulting my intelligence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was not an insult. It was an observation. When I do insult it can be in spadefuls and there no ambiguity. But I never. Read back he started it? Not me. He was insulting my intelligence.

He challenged your statement with an observation, you respond by commenting on his intelligence. It's not acceptable. You've been told before, this is your final warning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An extension to Finch Farm, which was an option. A Merseyrail line can be branched off at Halewood station and run past the site, past Hale Village and into the airport - killing many birds with one stone. The London line runs past the site. It is 4 track (2 fast, 2 slow) so a station can be built at the site. Nearby there is a the M57, the road Widnes, the dual carriageways to Liverpool, etc.

 

But Fat Joe wants the rates from the stadium to go into his coffers, so will object and object because the stadium would be outside the city. But Liverpool Council own the land of Finch Farm.

BTW, EFC are building a new 5,000 seater youth stadium at Finch Farm.

Halwood???

 

Get to fuck, it's miles out the zone, we may as well move to Widnes, Cronto, Prescot or Whiston as move to Halewood.

 

You're absolutely delusional mate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus you must hate Everton. In the middle of nowhere with no pubs or anything. It would definitely kill something - the club.

He's round the bend if he thinks for a single second we should move to the middle of nowhere just for a traintrack.

 

I think he's invested heavily in rail myself

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

Finch Farm was seriously considered. It has excellent road connections and rail tracks nearby to get most fans in and out quickly. Lots of space for car parks. The airport is nearby. The stadium complex would cater for all refreshments. If you want to drink elsewhere, you can get on a fast train to wherever you like. It is not a nuisance to local residents. The site ticks all boxes.

Everton ARE to build a stadium at Finch Farm. Yes, they are building a stadium there. And if the city of Liverpool incorporated Knowsley into the city as the boundaries commission suggested about 10-15 years ago, the site would be inside the city limits. It is just a matter of time before Knowsley is inside Liverpool.

 

Finch Farm is my favourite site, EFC would have all facilities in one location, training, academy, youth, admin, youth stadium, main stadium, conference facilities, a small 4 star hotel for internal use, etc. Alas, being Liverpool common sense goes out of the window I doubt it will happen.

 

Ajax fans complained about going to the 'remote' Amsterdam Arena, but now they love it.

 

BTW, George Harrison, as Liverpool as you get and known world-wide as a Liverpudlian, was brought up about 1km as the crow flies from Finch Farm - in Liverpool.

Edited by John Burns
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

Halwood???

 

Get to fuck, it's miles out the zone,

What zone are you on about?

Kirkby was even more seriously considered, so what's your point?

 

And the site only ticks a trainspotter's list.

 

You really don't get it. At least try and understand what makes a large stadium successful in all ways. Try.

Edited by John Burns
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

And the site only ticks a trainspotter's list.

Maybe you want to walk to the ground and think everyone else should as well. Very eco for sure. Then EFC would be playing in front of 5,000 and semi-pro.

 

I would like EFC in a 70,000 stadium that I can access very quickly in comfort from any part of the Liverpool City Region via a very fast train right to the door of the stadium. A stadium with excellent road access if I want to go by road and one that does not hinder local residents - because I would hate to live next to such a place. Also one with top refreshment facilities in the stadium and also in the complex. All that is easily achievable for EFC - and LFC for that matter.

Edited by John Burns
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest John Burns

If a two tier Park End was rebuilt 15 yards closer to the park it would be possible ......

 

Oh No!!! Not this tart up GP again. The club wrote off GP NINETEEN years ago. They have never considered retaining it since. EFC was the first major club to announce a move of home. The club has not considered staying since. In 1997 EFC announced in an Echo double colour page spread a picture of the stadium to be built at the golf course just north of Aintree race course. It was just outside the city limits but the golf course was owned by the city. The council scuppered it.

 

It is not even worth thinking of staying at GP, as it has been off the menu for nineteen years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't really contribute to this discussion. I remember when the trams stopped at Gilmoss and you were out in the country. Then they extended the tram line to Kirby and that WAS out in the country. Woodland, farmland, ponds, we used to spend hours out there, just a couple of pence on the tram. Not a house or factory in sight, just the odd farm building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where are the best transport links in pretty much every city? In downtown. How many stations are there in Liverpool city centre? Why is that worse than one station somewhere in the countryside where no-one can go except by public transport? You can't even build large parking lots near the stadium any more, so you can't go by car. In the city centre there are parking places. And people can walk and cycle. And come by train from every direction. Well, except for west but they can use ferries. Easily the best transport links in Liverpool. Ticks far more boxes than bloody Halewood.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...