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Blue Bill's shiny new stadium at the docks...


Lowensda

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Guest John Burns

Where are the best transport links in pretty much every city? In downtown.

Liverpool has them elsewhere as well like at Finch Farm (read what I wrote) but alas it is not going t happen.

 

The Echo has the Stonebridge site opposite the water treatment plant on the A580 - the council did offer the water treatments site site at one time. This site is far smaller and would not be ideal for a large stadium that is also to host the Commonwealth games.

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/could-new-everton-stadium-help-11344102

Edited by John Burns
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Guest John Burns

 

Includes a Railway station John.

 

(These are old plans)

Very pretty, even in colour. It does indeed have a choo-choo station. They are ancient, and never considered. A mock up by some students or whatever. I hope it never happens. The city would be shooting itself in the foot approving this site. UNESCO would strip the city of its World Heritage status building here. It would kill what could a superb vibrant artistic area.

 

Peel own the land and want top rents and land values to be as high as possible. A large soul destroying stadium will drop rents and land values. Nothing is going for it.

Edited by John Burns
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Very pretty, even in colour. It does indeed have a choo-choo station. They are ancient, and never considered. A mock up by some students or whatever. I hope it never happens. The city would be shooting itself in the foot approving this site. UNESCO would strip the city of its World Heritage status building here. It would kill what could a superb vibrant artistic area.

 

Peel own the land and want top rents and land values to be as high as possible. A large soul destroying stadium will drop rents and land values. Nothing is going for it.

i think it would all depend on the design, personally. If you could incorporate the docks and river into the design it could add to the view rather than detract. Something like Chelsea were rumoured to be doing with Battersea Power Station would be awesome
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Guest John Burns

i think it would all depend on the design, personally. If you could incorporate the docks and river into the design it could add to the view rather than detract. Something like Chelsea were rumoured to be doing with Battersea Power Station would be awesome

The site has to conform to the contract of giving the city World Heritage status. It has to conform to the history of the site. There has been no history of football there. So that is out.

 

Finch Farm is the ideal site with no problems in planning , objections, etc, and ticks all boxes. With a multi-platform high throughput station most could get there by fast choo-choo. All is there, all is in place. EFC are then all in one complex. It could be a sports complex eventually serving many sports.

 

But Joe wants EFC as the enabler for a Commonwealth games stadium, so it has to be in Liverpool. The water treatment site is OK, but the one to the south of the A580, which the Echo is mentioning is poor.

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The site has to conform to the contract of giving the city World Heritage status. It has to conform to the history of the site. There has been no history of football there. So that is out.

 

what's the history behind the shoe like Arena and the hideous multi-storey car park? By your logic our status should already be gone, right?

 

My point was, provided the stadium incorporated the docks and general maritime history into the design, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

As for FF - it's already confirmed as a no go so there's no point in discussing it further.

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what's the history behind the shoe like Arena and the hideous multi-storey car park? By your logic our status should already be gone, right?

 

My point was, provided the stadium incorporated the docks and general maritime history into the design, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

As for FF - it's already confirmed as a no go so there's no point in discussing it further.

The Arena was not on a World Heritage Site, just outside. UNESCO did not like the idea of the Arena. Not long ago they reassessed Liverpool's status as a WHS, based on the plans of Liverpool Waters which gave scant regard to the history of the site. If they go ahead with a similar idea they will pull the plug. The contract with UNESCO is that the city must continue the historical theme of the site. Liverpool got the status and then ignored the contract, and just started to build tat - large sheds, multi-floor and surface car parks on what was once historic water space. This may be interesting for you:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/UNESCO-Violations.html

 

Edited by John Burns
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The Arena was not on a World Heritage Site, just outside. UNESCO did not like the idea of the Arena. Not long ago they reassessed Liverpool's status as a WHS, based on the plans of Liverpool Waters which gave scant regard to the history of the site. If they go ahead with a similar idea they will pull the plug. The contract with UNESCO is that the city must continue the historical theme of the site. Liverpool got the status and then ignored the contract, and just stared to build tat - large sheds, multi-floor and surface car parks on what was once historic water space. This may be interesting for you:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/watercity/UNESCO-Violations.html

 

didn't realise, thanks for that. Don't understand how the arena is out of the site when it's slap bang on the waterfront next to the docks though! Edited by Matt
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Guest John Burns

The Albert, Duke and Salthouse docks were on the WHS but the rest outside. Sandon Dock was in the buffer zone but they filled it in and built a sewage plant which could have gone on the land side. UNESCO were not amused an started to scrutinize Liverpool's status. To UNESCO it looked like WHS status was an advertising ploy for the city and no more. They were right. The city has to buy into the contract, not ignore it.

 

There are few decent sites in and around the city for a stadium. Finch Farm (my fav), Edge Lane, WHP even the Walton Hospital site. The council did offer Garston Docks at one point, but the site has been built on. The council offered LFC Long Lane and near, or on, the Broad Green Hospital site. The council over 20 years have been pissed off with EFC - the time Kenright was on the board or in charge.

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Can't see any reason we shouldn't be given the land where the shite were gonna build there's on!

The Broad Green site now has new buildings on it. So that is now not on option. The hospital was to be decommissioned. A great stadium site. On Queens Drive at the end of the M62. The Broadgreen rail station nearby could have been made into a multi-platform station - it could have been moved to the green field just to the east of the current station. The outer Loop trackbed skirts the site and when commissioned gives the site superb transport access in road and rail. EFC should have gone for this site when it was available.

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Liverpool has them elsewhere as well like at Finch Farm (read what I wrote) but alas it is not going t happen.

 

The Echo has the Stonebridge site opposite the water treatment plant on the A580 - the council did offer the water treatments site site at one time. This site is far smaller and would not be ideal for a large stadium that is also to host the Commonwealth games.

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/could-new-everton-stadium-help-11344102

Ok, what logic says that one station is just as good as all the stations in downtown? People could only come from two directions and the majority would arrive from west (when the line roughly runs west-east) fto Finch Farm. In the centre you can take pretty much any train from any connecting place and you end up there. Plus it has the railway station for longer distance travellers. And lots more bus routes. And lots more parking.

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I must admit that a few months ago I was looking at a over head view of Finch Farm, seen all the land around, and wondered why we don't build our stadium there? Having everything in one place would be pretty good. But I don't know anything about the area, so.....

 

I'd love a waterfront stadium. I think that would be great.

 

A question to John Burns...is the WHS contract worth a lot to the city? What's the advantage of this? From a financial point of view, would the political side of the city see having a nice big stadium more advantageous than WHS???

 

Also, from reading the articles posted, I get a feeling the Mayor is suddenly more keen to help out now that he knows we have the money. It feels like the power has shifted in this position from us being like begging puppies to them being begging puppies.

 

Quite interesting. Let's not waste anymore money on proposals...let's just buy the land we want, where we want and build a world class stadium.

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I must admit that a few months ago I was looking at a over head view of Finch Farm, seen all the land around, and wondered why we don't build our stadium there? Having everything in one place would be pretty good. But I don't know anything about the area, so.....

 

I'd love a waterfront stadium. I think that would be great.

 

A question to John Burns...is the WHS contract worth a lot to the city? What's the advantage of this? From a financial point of view, would the political side of the city see having a nice big stadium more advantageous than WHS???

 

Also, from reading the articles posted, I get a feeling the Mayor is suddenly more keen to help out now that he knows we have the money. It feels like the power has shifted in this position from us being like begging puppies to them being begging puppies.

 

Quite interesting. Let's not waste anymore money on proposals...let's just buy the land we want, where we want and build a world class stadium.

 

he's a politician the instant he hears of a way to get more tax revenue he's foaming at the mouth. i agree with john burns that he's probably pushing hard to get it within the city limits so they can take the taxes off everything on it. don't blame the guy.

 

also it's exciting because of all the "proposals" and vaporware we've seen, there is more emphasis on a real stadium being built now and we haven't even seen or heard anything from the club. i think moshiri likes to work in the background, which is very clever. only make an announcement when it's done, like the ownership shares. i think it will be the same with the manager.

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I must admit that a few months ago I was looking at a over head view of Finch Farm, seen all the land around, and wondered why we don't build our stadium there? Having everything in one place would be pretty good. But I don't know anything about the area, so.....

 

I'd love a waterfront stadium. I think that would be great.

 

A question to John Burns...is the WHS contract worth a lot to the city? What's the advantage of this? From a financial point of view, would the political side of the city see having a nice big stadium more advantageous than WHS???

 

Also, from reading the articles posted, I get a feeling the Mayor is suddenly more keen to help out now that he knows we have the money. It feels like the power has shifted in this position from us being like begging puppies to them being begging puppies.

 

Quite interesting. Let's not waste anymore money on proposals...let's just buy the land we want, where we want and build a world class stadium.

There's nothing there absolutely nothing. I've no idea what he is chatting with rail networks around there, it's in the sticks it's outside the city boundary and it's a shite place to build a stadium.

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Guest John Burns

I must admit that a few months ago I was looking at a over head view of Finch Farm, seen all the land around, and wondered why we don't build our stadium there? Having everything in one place would be pretty good. But I don't know anything about the area, so.....

 

A question to John Burns...is the WHS contract worth a lot to the city? What's the advantage of this? From a financial point of view, would the political side of the city see having a nice big stadium more advantageous than WHS???

World Heritage Status status gives great kudos to the city. The city is not like Manchester, Leeds or Sheffield. Large parts of the city centre and the old docks are are World Heritage zones or buffer zones. UNESCO did not like the idea of building a sewage plant on Wellington Dock which was in the buffer zone. UNESCO then looked at Liverpool Waters' plans and were seriously considering the WHS status of the city. The city approached UNESCO not the other way around. Then UNESCO saw the city do sweet nothing to enhance their history and heritage and doing quite the opposite. So why did the city apply for it? If the city loses its status it will be a world-wide laughing stock. Many outside the city detest Liverpool for inexplicable reasons - the Tory party for one, they omitted Liverpool from HS2 (the only major English city omitted yet the line will be only 20 miles away), and will not finish off the one third of Merseyrail abandoned after work started, after 40 years of waiting. I can see the papers now mocking Liverpool - 'philistines', 'beer and football Chavs', 'uncultured, uneducated Scousers', etc.

Yes, Finch Farm, near the airport and Jaguar factory, was considered. Unfortunately it appears off the list now. Those who say it is in the middle of nowhere probably live in Crosby or somewhere like that. Those in the south or east of the city do not think Halewood is remote at all. The club moved its offices and training facilities just over the city's boundary. Everton ARE to build a stadium at Finch Farm, a 5,000 seater youth stadium. And if the city of Liverpool incorporated Knowsley into the city as the boundaries commission suggested about 10-15 years ago, the site would be inside the city limits. It is just a matter of time before Knowsley IS inside Liverpool. Liverpool rejected Knowsley at the time as the admin could not cope with the new work load.
  • When Everton first played on Stanley Park is was outside of the city boundary.
  • When Everton first played at Priory Road is was outside of the city boundary.
  • When Everton first played at Anfield is was outside of the city boundary.
  • When Everton first played at Goodison Park is was outside of the city boundary.
  • When Everton's Youth first play at their new stadium it will be outside of the city boundary.
I don't see what the fuss is all about.
Finch Farm is well served by essential transport:
  • It is on the M57 junction of the Liverpool-Widnes Rd.
  • It is at the junction of the A561 and A562.
  • The new to be completed Mersey crossing road bridge at Runcorn will add to Finch Farm's road access.
  • Plenty of space for large car parks.
  • The airport is nearby.
  • Trunk roads into Liverpool: Aigburth Rd, Menlove Ave, Mather Ave, Brodie Ave.
  • The Liverpool-London line borders the Finch Farm site to the south.
  • The Liverpool-Manchester line is just to the north.
  • The Liverpool-Manchester line can be branched and run into the site and continue onto the airport - all on Merseyrail.
  • The Liverpool-Manchester line branch can be branched into the Liverpool-London line and run onwards to Runcorn, all on Merseyrail.
  • Mainline Liverpool South Parkway station would be a few stops away on Merseyrail.
  • The site can be accessed from all the Liverpool City Region by fast rail.
  • There has been proposals to build a road/rail tressel bridge from Garston/Speke to Ellesmere Port, so great future potential for transport.

1,100 houses are being built to the north west of Finch Farm but these will not be in the way.

Edited by John Burns
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Guest John Burns

Councillor Richard Kemp on Twitter said:
"There would be huge external infrastructure costs to develop on North Docks. Stonebridge X has been best bet for years."

This is view from the council with a view to getting the Commonwealth Games. From EFC's view Finch Farm is the best. EFC must go for what is best for the club.

Approached by the ECHO Peel director Lindsey Ashworth would not comment on negotiations with Everton/Council: “There is nothing to say, there has been a lot of speculation. I’m not in a position to say anything at the moment.”

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/docklands-site-owners-not-yet-11347728

 

Stonebridge (the Amazon site) is poor for the essential mass-transit rail access, so Kemp is prattling tripe.

 

Next season half of the PL stadia has been built after 1995. In the leagues below there is also a lot of new stadia.

Edited by John Burns
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Key thing for the new stadium is non-matchday revenue. And I can't see how the club could compete with the Echo arena, Anfield and other locations if the stadium is located far from the city centre. Transport links are pretty irrelevant. Building it in Croxteth or Halewood would mean the club could either just price itself much cheaper or pick up the scraps left by other places. What else could make a neutral customer pick Everton's stadium in Croxteth ahead of Anfield when he's arranging something for his business partners? Or a concert organizer, why would he pick the new Everton stadium ahead of the Echo arena?

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