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Finn balor

Grand national

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Used to love the National but it does nothing for me now, too many fatalities; I don't even watch anymore.

The last fatality was 2012 by my research and that year there was two. One of them, the Gold Cup winner Synchronised died when jumping the fences on his own for fun and landed awkwardly and had to be humanly put down.

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37 minutes ago, Bailey said:

The last fatality was 2012 by my research and that year there was two. One of them, the Gold Cup winner Synchronised died when jumping the fences on his own for fun and landed awkwardly and had to be humanly put down.

There were 6 at Cheltenham.

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2 hours ago, Finn balor said:

Just looked at favourites for the race but one outsider took my fancy. Out sam 120/1 . I think we should all lump on 

Grand National is the only bet I have during the year. Thanks for the tip Finn, will have a few quid on that - each way.

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19 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

They should start putting the jockeys down if they break a leg. Whoops, the jockeys would still be able to make money so that wouldn’t happen. My bad. 

 

19 hours ago, johnh said:

There were 6 at Cheltenham.

Aye and it' a great shame. The stable staff and owners loved them horses. 

19 hours ago, MikeO said:

One is too many.

Unfortunately horses die every day because of humans. Whether its in the field, on the racecourse or anywhere else for that matter. 

These horses are bred to race. They wouldn't exist otherwise. They are treated like the Premier league footballers, loved and adored by their connections and many punters/the public alike. 

There are far worsely treated horses all around the country, probably in your nearest stables where they are probably left in a field with no care and attention and some fat bint or child going to ride them out once a month while they sit there getting fat and old. Thats a far greater travesty and a racehorse having to be put down because it' more humane for them to be put down as opposed to letting them live in pain for a very slim chance of recovery.

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34 minutes ago, Bailey said:

These horses are bred to race. They wouldn't exist otherwise. They are treated like the Premier league footballers, loved and adored by their connections and many punters/the public alike. 

They are bred so people can gamble. People don't "support" a horse or a stable like in other sports; they just want to find a winner. Changing your allegiance every week based on form and your ability to pocket a few quid isn'tt "loving and adoring" the nags in my book, it's loving and adoring your wallet.

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9 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

My real bet is captain red beard 22/1 

And how long have you been a Captain Red Beard fan (shame on you for supporting someone with "red" in their name incidentally:mad:)? My bet is from when you put the bet on, not picking on you Finn just emphasising my point;).

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10 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

By bets on but got 18/1, I know it’s bad form to back anything with red in it but like the look of it 

I actually won about 10s (50p) on Red Alligator when he came third in the Foinavon national, in my defence I was only six at the time and my dad put the bet on for me:unsure:.

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My bet is going to be  the Kraken black rum 94 proof as it is currently favourite ;)

 

horse race?  what *HIC* feckin' horse race?

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On 4/12/2018 at 16:51, MikeO said:

They are bred so people can gamble. People don't "support" a horse or a stable like in other sports; they just want to find a winner. Changing your allegiance every week based on form and your ability to pocket a few quid isn'ttt "loving and adoring" the nags in my book, it's loving and adoring your wallet.

They are bred to make money essentially. I dont think the Sheiks, JP McManus', Ricci Rich's of this world buy these horses to have a gamble. Not many owners make much money from owning a racehorse, sure plenty have a gamble, but 99.9% of all connections just want to see their horse run well and come back safe.

And yes people do support a horse or a stable. Im guessing you didnt watch it, but in lthe 2016 Cheltenham festival Sprinter Sacre returned from injury to win the Champion Chase. The roar from the crowd was incredible, the commentator voice almost went at one point and you see one of the opposing jockeys 'congratulating' the horse after the line. The actual favourite, and therefore the one by your logic should get the bigger cheer becuase more money will be on him, was the one that he passed on the bend in the light blue. The trainer, who has won God knows how many big races (and my favourite trainer btw), was in tears after the race.

 

You cant watch this video and tell me they only care about having a bet? In the very last seconds, look at the amount of people waiting to congratulate their retiring hero.

 

By your logic I should be backing Everton every week to win even when I know they wont. There are plenty of times I have backed a horse because I thought it was the best horse in the race, but shouted home a different horse that is one of my favourites. In fact if Blaklion wins the National tomorrow, I will be doing just that because he is such a ballsy little horse who jumps really well and really game but I dont think he will win because I dont think he will stay the trip. Likewise I dont think Everton will win tomorrow so should that mean I shouldnt bet on Swansea?

Sure plenty people bet on horses just to have a gamble and you get some absolute cunts out there wishing for horses to fall so that theirs can win and things like that, but dont tar everyone who likes horse racing with the same brush. That might be your experience with horse racing fans, and I have seen plenty myself and unfortunately, there are more and more on course than there ever has been, but its certainly not everyone and its certainly in a minority when you get to the core supporters of racing.

 

 

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Smoke and mirrors mate, there may be the odd "feel good" story but on a wet weekend at Hexham nobody gives a shit other than whether they win or not. You're citing a few incidents from the microscopic part of racing that's at the "elite" level and suggesting it transcends the whole "sport". It doesn't.

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Horse racing came before the Bookies and the gamblers, it wasn't the Bookies or gamblers that gave us horse racing, it's still full of owners and people who take great pleasure in working with and owning a horse or horses.

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4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Horse racing came before the Bookies and the gamblers, it wasn't the Bookies or gamblers that gave us horse racing, it's still full of owners and people who take great pleasure in working with and owning a horse or horses.

May well have done in the course of history, but we're talking about why it exists today and for what reason. Nobody's going to change my mind and I'm not going to change anybody else's so no point continuing the debate really. I've no doubt that an owner will be sad if their horse were to die tomorrow; but I've also no doubt that they'd pretty quickly get over it and buy another one.

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Wikipedia quote out of interest...

"Gambling on horseraces has been one of the cornerstones of the British betting industry and the relationship between the two has historically been one of mutual dependence. The betting industry is an important funder of horse racing in Great Britain, through the betting levy administered by the Horserace Betting Levy Board and through media rights negotiated by racecourses and betting shops."

Can anyone suggest another sport (dog racing aside) where this the case?

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5 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Wikipedia quote out of interest...

"Gambling on horseraces has been one of the cornerstones of the British betting industry and the relationship between the two has historically been one of mutual dependence. The betting industry is an important funder of horse racing in Great Britain, through the betting levy administered by the Horserace Betting Levy Board and through media rights negotiated by racecourses and betting shops."

Can anyone suggest another sport (dog racing aside) where this the case?

No point continuing the debate I thought you said.

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Live round the corner from Aintree and was a little annoyed I hadn't won on the national in ages so went a bit overboard and picked six horses last year, and luckily 5 of them finished in the top 6. The only horse I never chose that year was Gas Line Boy. Only picked four this time round:

Valseur Lido / Virgilio / Gas Line Boy / Vieux Lion Rouge

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7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

No point continuing the debate I thought you said.

Which is why I said "out of interest" and quoted an outside source rather than expressing personal opinion.

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9 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Which is why I said "out of interest" and quoted an outside source rather than expressing personal opinion.

Football is the sport that is bet on the most world wide and is now believed to be the number one sport bet on in this country, the Bookies promote gambling through football by sponsorship and live advertising. 

Sky bet make huge profits through football betting which contributes to Sky paying for their Premiere league and Championship packages, which in turn funds the club's that play in the league's.

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2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Football is the sport that is bet on the most world wide and is now believed to be the number one sport bet on in this country, the Bookies promote gambling through football by sponsorship and live advertising. 

Sky bet make huge profits through football betting which contributes to Sky paying for their Premiere league and Championship packages, which in turn funds the club's that play in the league's.

Football results don't come with starting prices though do they?  

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1 minute ago, MikeO said:

Football results don't come with starting prices though do they?  

Not sure what you mean, but you get a price before the game starts on the result.

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2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Not sure what you mean, but you get a price before the game starts on the result.

For example.                 Win.   Draw.   Win

Man City v Watford      1-4       9-4.     3-1

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11 hours ago, Palfy said:

Not sure what you mean, but you get a price before the game starts on the result.

It's fairly obvious.

When I say "Football results don't come with starting prices though do they?" I mean "Football results don't come with starting prices though do they?"

Certainly you can find the odds on a football match if you go looking for them at a bookmaker but they're not the raison d'être for the event happening like they are in racing.

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I get your drift Mike 

Here's a pretty good link to how it evolved into the betting monopoly it is today, although betting at some courses is banned it's definitely driven by it football has just fallen into the scene along with multiple/every other sports over the years 

 

http://www.bestbettingsites.uk/horse-racing/history/

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21 minutes ago, MikeO said:

It's fairly obvious.

When I say "Football results don't come with starting prices though do they?" I mean "Football results don't come with starting prices though do they?"

Certainly you can find the odds on a football match if you go looking for them at a bookmaker but they're not the raison d'être for the event happening like they are in racing.

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You can bet on what you think the score of any game will be, if you thought that the derby game would have been 0-0 you could have bet on that before the game started.

You are trying to say that horse racing only exist because of betting, of course Bookies have influenced horse racing for their own gains, but horse racing would still carry on with out the input from bookies.

Most owners spend more money on owning a race horse than they get back, they do it for the love of the sport as much as for the money very few make a profit on their returns.

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8 minutes ago, EFC-Paul said:

I get your drift Mike 

Here's a pretty good link to how it evolved into the betting monopoly it is today, although betting at some courses is banned it's definitely driven by it football has just fallen into the scene along with multiple/every other sports over the years 

 

http://www.bestbettingsites.uk/horse-racing/history/

And horse racing fell into it the same way any sport that as a big audience will be influenced by the Bookies, that's there business.

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10 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Most owners spend more money on owning a race horse than they get back, they do it for the love of the sport as much as for the money very few make a profit on their returns

As do most football club owners but I'm not talking about owners I'm talking about punters. They watch football wanting the team they support to win. They watch racing wanting the horse they have money on to win. It baffles me that people can't see the difference.

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6 minutes ago, MikeO said:

As do most football club owners but I'm not talking about owners I'm talking about punters. They watch football wanting the team they support to win. They watch racing wanting the horse they have money on to win. It baffles me that people can't see the difference.

Mike your going on a different tangent from the original discussion, and I wouldn't argue that the vast majority of people who follow racing do so far the gambling, but that is now becoming the domain of football as well, we as supporters will find it baffling that most bets placed on football are not by supporters or even by people who like football they are by people who think they can make a profit, the odds are very poor in football because there are less wins against the favourites, so if you put a treble on you could get the odds up to about 2 or 3-1, which if you're a gambling man with a few grand to play with can be quite lucrative, and like I said you don't have to like football to make a bet.

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I'm not going off on any tangent at all, I'm just (again) repeating the same point I've made from the start. As you said, "the vast majority of people who follow racing do so far the gambling"; the vast majority of people who follow football do it because they like to watch football and support their club. That's not to say people can't and don't gamble on football and just about every other sport, of course they can but that's just a by-product; whereas with racing it's what it there for.

If all gambling was banned tomorrow Goodison would still be full to capacity every game; racetracks would be ghost towns.

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14 hours ago, MikeO said:

Smoke and mirrors mate, there may be the odd "feel good" story but on a wet weekend at Hexham nobody gives a shit other than whether they win or not. You're citing a few incidents from the microscopic part of racing that's at the "elite" level and suggesting it transcends the whole "sport". It doesn't.

Its not an odd story, it happens regularly. Raz De Maree winning the Chepstow National at age 13 against another 13 year old Alfie Spinner, the former running in the National today.

Stand Guard breaking the all time winner record on the all weather, a runner at the bottom rung of the racing ladder.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/all-weather-record-holder-stand-guard-retires-at-the-age-of-14/316114

Some people just want an occasional flutter. Some people get into racing after a random day at the races with their friends or parents, like I did, but it doesn't mean that people don't care for the horses and don't want what is best for them. With all due respect you don't seem to have much knowledge of racing so how you can say that it doesn't is beyond me. I see the photos and videos that the grooms and stable staff put up cuddling and riding out the horse they are looking after (working 13 days a fortnight for long hours at minimum wage). I have seen how devastated they are when the horses they care for don't make it back from the track regardless of whether they are "elite" or plodders.

I would also suggest that anyone who turns up to a wet weekend at Hexham probably gives more of a shit about the horses than you think. Its the suited and booted groups of lads and lasses at your Royal Ascot's and Aintrees that are more interested in having a piss up and winning a few quid.

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9 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I'm not going off on any tangent at all, I'm just (again) repeating the same point I've made from the start. As you said, "the vast majority of people who follow racing do so far the gambling"; the vast majority of people who follow football do it because they like to watch football and support their club. That's not to say people can't and don't gamble on football and just about every other sport, of course they can but that's just a by-product; whereas with racing it's what it there for.

If all gambling was banned tomorrow Goodison would still be full to capacity every game; racetracks would be ghost towns.

That's the point horse racing doesn't exist because of gambling and it would carry on if it was possible to ban betting on racing, and I dare say that Aintree would be full today even if you couldn't bet, just because you may not enjoy horse racing as a sport or spectacle don't assume others don't.

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

It's fairly obvious.

When I say "Football results don't come with starting prices though do they?" I mean "Football results don't come with starting prices though do they?"

Certainly you can find the odds on a football match if you go looking for them at a bookmaker but they're not the raison d'être for the event happening like they are in racing.

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47 minutes ago, MikeO said:

As do most football club owners but I'm not talking about owners I'm talking about punters. They watch football wanting the team they support to win. They watch racing wanting the horse they have money on to win. It baffles me that people can't see the difference.

Plenty of people also watch racing without having a bet, in fact if you watch any racing TV show, whilst they might talk about who the likely winner is (like they do in any other sports program), very often will you hear them say they have had a bet on every race.

On the flip side, I only watch some footy games because I have had a bet on it. I only care whether they win or not because of my bet.

It baffles me that you cant see the similarities.

11 minutes ago, MikeO said:

I'm not going off on any tangent at all, I'm just (again) repeating the same point I've made from the start. As you said, "the vast majority of people who follow racing do so far the gambling"; the vast majority of people who follow football do it because they like to watch football and support their club. That's not to say people can't and don't gamble on football and just about every other sport, of course they can but that's just a by-product; whereas with racing it's what it there for.

If all gambling was banned tomorrow Goodison would still be full to capacity every game; racetracks would be ghost towns.

I don't think any one can deny that racing and gambling go hand in hand but you dont seem to think that the people betting on a horse cant be happy for either their horse to just win (without the financial reward) or to not be happy about another horse / jockey / trainer winning, finishing placed etc. This is the same way, that whilst I might not have supported Sunderland earlier in the season, I am generally glad when they lose, it doesn't mean seeing James Vaughan score a goal doesn't bring a smile to my face.

A lot of people go racing for a day out, for the occasion, and plenty of people would still attend week in week out without betting. The lower level stuff, which generally isn'tt a great occasion wouldn't (a bit like non-league football), especially when it is on midweek. It would force racing to increase the quality of its product and you wouldn't have as many lesser level races, but then that means you have a pool of horses, like Stand Guard in my previous post, needing new 'roles'.

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4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

That's the point horse racing doesn't exist because of gambling and it would carry on if it was possible to ban betting on racing, and I dare say that Aintree would be full today even if you couldn't bet, just because you may not enjoy horse racing as a sport or spectacle don't assume others don't.

So when you said, " "the vast majority of people who follow racing do so for the gambling" you actually meant "the vast majority of people who follow racing do so for the spectacle":huh:.

 

14 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Its not an odd story, it happens regularly. Raz De Maree winning the Chepstow National at age 13 against another 13 year old Alfie Spinner, the former running in the National today.

Stand Guard breaking the all time winner record on the all weather, a runner at the bottom rung of the racing ladder.

https://www.racingpost.com/news/all-weather-record-holder-stand-guard-retires-at-the-age-of-14/316114

Some people just want an occasional flutter. Some people get into racing after a random day at the races with their friends or parents, like I did, but it doesn't mean that people don't care for the horses and don't want what is best for them. With all due respect you don't seem to have much knowledge of racing so how you can say that it doesn't is beyond me. I see the photos and videos that the grooms and stable staff put up cuddling and riding out the horse they are looking after (working 13 days a fortnight for long hours at minimum wage). I have seen how devastated they are when the horses they care for don't make it back from the track regardless of whether they are "elite" or plodders.

I would also suggest that anyone who turns up to a wet weekend at Hexham probably gives more of a shit about the horses than you think. Its the suited and booted groups of lads and lasses at your Royal Ascot's and Aintrees that are more interested in having a piss up and winning a few quid.

I give up. Like I said earlier I'm not going to change your mind and you won't change mine. As an aside I was often taken to racing by my dad as a kid (Sandown mostly) and had a hospitality day out at the Derby one year through work; there's no doubt the horses/riders are an impressive spectacle, I'd agree with that. My point is just that it coexists with gambling unlike any other sport.

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3 minutes ago, MikeO said:

So when you said, " "the vast majority of people who follow racing do so for the gambling" you actually meant "the vast majority of people who follow racing do so for the spectacle":huh:.

 

I give up. Like I said earlier I'm not going to change your mind and you won't change mine. As an aside I was often taken to racing by my dad as a kid (Sandown mostly) and had a hospitality day out at the Derby one year through work; there's no doubt the horses/riders are an impressive spectacle, I'd agree with that. My point is just that it coexists with gambling unlike any other sport.

Yes Mike that's right because the vast majority who gamble on racing have never set foot on a race course, and those that go to the races do so for the whole ambience and spectacle of the day, like I said just because you don't like it don't assume others don't.

And yes they may have a bet as well but they haven't gone there just to gamble they could stay at home and do that, they go because they enjoy it, the same as people who bet on football and go to the games they enjoy it.

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,Anyway Mike looking at how well you've been doing in the prediction league, if you was partial to the odd flutter you would be well in the black.

Have ago at picking one team from each English and Scottish league to win their game and I will give you the odds as an accumulator, choose from the 3:00 games.

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50 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Have ago at picking one team from each English and Scottish league to win their game and I will give you the odds as an accumulator, choose from the 3:00 games.

Have to rush this cause I've only just got back in.

Palace,  Derby,  Wigan, Luton, Kilmarnock (not a lot of options in the SPL), Dundee Utd, Raith, Elgin.

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11 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Have to rush this cause I've only just got back in.

Palace,  Derby,  Wigan, Luton, Kilmarnock (not a lot of options in the SPL), Dundee Utd, Raith, Elgin.

Couldn't find killy the other 7 came to 35.79-1 stuck a tenner on if it comes in 50% go's to admin.

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1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Couldn't find killy the other 7 came to 35.79-1 stuck a tenner on if it comes in 50% go's to admin.

If it's worth cashing out I'll let you know.

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2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Five from eight, close but no cigar.

No but after the first 5 minutes you were flying the highest cash out was £34.36 if Derby could have made a game of it the cash out value would have been quadruple that, who would have bet on Burton Tonking Derby not me I had them to win in 2 bets

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On 4/13/2018 at 09:12, MikeO said:

I actually won about 10s (50p) on Red Alligator when he came third in the Foinavon national, in my defence I was only six at the time and my dad put the bet on for me:unsure:.

I've always been fascinated with numbers and maths. When I was 6 or 7, I remember spending about two hours playing with numbers and dice to predict the first three horses. Believe it or not, they came first, second, and fourth! My dad agreed to place a small bet for me, but he went drinking instead and forgot!

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On 4/11/2018 at 13:29, Finn balor said:

Just looked at favourites for the race but one outsider took my fancy. Out sam 120/1 . I think we should all lump on 

It seems Sam never made it to the big time: all talk and no action.

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how about slug racing?  the slug steeple chase stakes can be used to pass the time too, :angry:  and slugs seldom have to be put down because the have a broken leg or neck.

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21 minutes ago, rubecula said:

how about slug racing?  the slug steeple chase stakes can be used to pass the time too, :angry:  and slugs seldom have to be put down because the have a broken leg or neck.

Have you ever seen a slug jump (apart from when you've chucked into next-door's garden)?

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1 hour ago, MikeO said:

Have you ever seen a slug jump (apart from when you've chucked into next-door's garden)?

watched a few explode  :wacko:

done to impress a young lady a few years ago when she had a slug problem and I worked for a pest control company,  I only had insect spray on the van ... used that and left her to call me later to tell me how it worked.   Fuck me, it cleared them out, but  you could hear them going off like fireworks from outside the house :rofl:

 

 Never saw her again either :huh:

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6 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Charity's the barmaid down his local pub - the one in charge of outstanding bar tabs.

I that is true then  GOOD ON YER MATT  :worship:

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