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42 minutes ago, Matt said:

Sigh. Your blind whatever is still not wasting time on

I asked on here previously for anyone to name a team that has a Gana style player at Centre Mid and no one mentioned one. Closest is a few DMs being named as similar to him. There's a reason you won't find one. Most likely as you'll not find one training academy teaching players to play as recklessly as Gana. Football is a team game, more so when it comes to defending. All the coaching is about being a unit. Gana breaks that unit and leaves us exposed. We don't need an exact replacement. 

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Youre both moaning but you two lads seem to need to book a test for yourselves! 

We are only eleven starting players away from being a decent side so could be an interesting window

For me, what it boils down to is what does Silva ideally want from his MF, role-wise?  Davies, Gana, Morgan, Delph and Gomes are very different from each other. Due to that, how they are paired very m

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17 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

ndidi kante casemiro matic dier bakayoko nzonzi witsel herrera keita xhaka moutinho

Most of these players play DM and none of them are gung ho in their all out pressing. 

Matic, Nzonzi, Dier, Bakayoko, Casemiro and up until last year Kante are all DMs. 

Witsel is more similar to Gomes. 

Keita is a powerful centre mid. 

Xhaka sits and has great passing range. 

Moutinho is class he's the opposite of Gana. He plays with his brain and doesn't have the legs to run around frantically. 

Herrera is class as well, brilliant reader of the game. He's the player I wanted and the player who will be keeping Gana out of the PSG team. He's got good energy but he's not a headless chicken. Defensively he's more like James McCarthy pre-injury. 

 

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We are desperately short in depth and quality at right back, centre back if gana goes we need a replacement obviously. We need a top quality wide man that will give Charley and Bernie competition at the least and two strikers in my mind. I think we lack serious pace on the counter. Bernie, Charlie, gilfi, DCl, Tosun. All averaged pace. We need a player that when possesion changes the opposition shit themselves. You can see when city, Liverpool break you know pretty much the ball will end up in the back of the net. I know they have the best players but there’s no reason why we can’t do it. 

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2 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

We are desperately short in depth and quality at right back, centre back if gana goes we need a replacement obviously. We need a top quality wide man that will give Charley and Bernie competition at the least and two strikers in my mind. I think we lack serious pace on the counter. Bernie, Charlie, gilfi, DCl, Tosun. All averaged pace. We need a player that when possesion changes the opposition shit themselves. You can see when city, Liverpool break you know pretty much the ball will end up in the back of the net. I know they have the best players but there’s no reason why we can’t do it. 

Always considered Bernard, Richarlison, and especially DCL, as having decent pace. Definitely not in the same bracket as Gylfi and Tosun.

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3 hours ago, Sibdane said:

I think we should probably sell McCarthy. He showed some tenacity against Wigan when he came on, but he's definitely looking sluggish. I think Coleman suggested during the last Ireland friendlies that he was ready to move on from Everton.

Also, add in that Delph, Morgan, & McCarthy are 29/30, not that that's too old, but I'd like to bring in someone younger who can start learning/blending into the squad.

I'd agree with all of that.

2 hours ago, Matt said:

How many of them are energetic ball winners though? McCarthy once was but now?

Who says we need one?

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13 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

Always considered Bernard, Richarlison, and especially DCL, as having decent pace. Definitely not in the same bracket as Gylfi and Tosun.

I’m not saying they are all the same, they have decent pace but not rapid pace. I watched robinson the lad we sold to Wigan last night and players had a yard on him and they just give up as they knew they weren’t going to beat him for pace. Walcott included. 

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30 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Most of these players play DM and none of them are gung ho in their all out pressing. 

Matic, Nzonzi, Dier, Bakayoko, Casemiro and up until last year Kante are all DMs. 

Witsel is more similar to Gomes. 

Keita is a powerful centre mid. 

Xhaka sits and has great passing range. 

Moutinho is class he's the opposite of Gana. He plays with his brain and doesn't have the legs to run around frantically. 

Herrera is class as well, brilliant reader of the game. He's the player I wanted and the player who will be keeping Gana out of the PSG team. He's got good energy but he's not a headless chicken. Defensively he's more like James McCarthy pre-injury. 

 

Ndidi is definitely the closest that I can think of. How many people would want him on here at £25-30mil?

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3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

So who plays that way for City and Liverpool (presumably the two you would agree are the most high press)?

 

1 minute ago, Finn balor said:

I think they are the Exception. They hunt in packs. 

But even the pack needs an alpha

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31 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Ndidi is definitely the closest that I can think of. How many people would want him on here at £25-30mil?

I've not watched him close enough although when I've watched Leicester he's not stood out for anything which is a good sign given his position. Tielemans and Madison shone when I did though and I guess Ndidi must have been helping them.! 

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37 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

The obvious defensive minded player for city is Fernandinho. I don’t watch enough of the shite to know

The most aggressive pressers (Alpha) play higher up the pitch so it will be your KDB's and Silva's (both) who start the press and then Fernandinho and the rest follow their lead. The more attacking players make the same number of attempted tackles as the the more defensive ones. Same with Eriksen at Spurs. Liverpool are a little more rotational but the prospect is the same. 

The point I am taking an age to make is that most decent teams dont have 1 guy running around tackling everything they can catch. Instead they are spread around the team more evenly.

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46 minutes ago, Ghoat said:

For me, what it boils down to is what does Silva ideally want from his MF, role-wise?  Davies, Gana, Morgan, Delph and Gomes are very different from each other. Due to that, how they are paired very much dictates what we do as a whole, IMO.

Gomes appears good-but-not-great deep, protecting the back four, and good-but-not-great in the final third. He is great in possession and on the ball, but where is he truly "best"? 

Delph maybe best in defense, good-but-not-great one ball and in final third?

Davies - who the hell knows, he has show some ability in all, but not played a role consistently to settle in. But damn he looked good yesterday further up being creative.

Morgan and McCarthy (in the unlikely event he stays) are traditional 6/DM's.

I think Gana is an exceptional player - he covers a shitton of space and flies to ball with great effect all over the pitch, but is limited in what he can do in the final third. You almost have to have deep-lying cover for him as he is chasing balls all over. And doing that means one less player offensive-minded player in transition or attack. Forcing Gana to stay deep would allow for a more offensive player, but it also limits what Gana is good at - roaming the pitch attacking the ball. 

 

ASSUMING we lose him, I can't help but think we see a change in tactics in the middle, not replacing him with a Gana 2.0. As exceptional as I think Gana is, he's a double-edged sword that limits MF tactics. Which goes back to "what does Silva really want in the MF?"  Between Gomes/Delph/Davies/Incoming-player who is best suited to play as an 8, or a 6, and paired with whom?

As our roster stands today, and from last year,  we offer no real threat on the counter-attack. DCL, Bernard and Richy all have good pace, but Theo is the only player with dangerous pace. Siggy for all his quality is just slow for a 10. If he stays up the pitch to compensate, he is too isolated in transition by our deeper MF. If he tracks back to compensate, the wings and especially DCL are isolated in transition. No matter how good they are individually, it seems to me the combination of Siggy and Gana precludes us from being dangerous or even effective in transition. And clearly we struggled with creativity last year to break teams down when they put 9-10 behind the ball.

At the risk of joining "Team-peteO," I'd be fine with losing Gana (for good money). Gana is very effective pressing himself, but I feel his style limits other's ability to press and counter and leaves Siggy in a positional catch-22. Does the permanent signing of Gomes and addition of Delph indicate a tactical preference of the MF Silva wants perhaps?

Or perhaps I'm just a silly Yank, and should leave the tactical discussion of "soccer" to the adults ;) 

When u post pal u fucking post. You need to lose that h out of your name. You carry on like that and you will be the GOAT 

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2 hours ago, Finn balor said:

When u post pal u fucking post. You need to lose that h out of your name. You carry on like that and you will be the GOAT 

Long story on where that h comes from, but suffice to say, for the last 15+ years when I need a user name, it's almost always available ;) 

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Ghoat that’s an excellent post.

I think you’ve said in that post what we’ve pretty much all been saying all along. You should put an application in for coaching 😉

You can make wrong decisions, players may or may not listen to you, and have you seen a coach's body language during a match??  Fuck all that! I realized 15 or 16 years ago when I got my first ref kit, players have to listen - you have the cards and the book.  I may or may not have told a coach that he had a point, that I may have missed something, or overlooked a violation...but unless you misapply one of the Laws Of The Game, you are never wrong - back to having the cards and book.  Mistaken yes, wrong never ;)  I'm a happy guy - who seems to smile more in a match, coach/manager or ref? Plus as a ref, when BOTH coaches are madder than hell at you - smile, it means you probably had a good game!

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

He can't do that because it stands for "horseshit":P.

Fair point, MikeOh, fair point🤣

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49 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

I meant GOAT the greatest of all time. You post very sparingly but when you do it’s immense 

I followed ya, but I'm pretty unimpressed with myself all in all, and I don't take me too serious, but thanks :)  But the "h" has lead to a lot of unintended humor over the years "Dude, did you mean goat or ghost??" Or my baby girl, now 18, who says she is still bitter because she misspelled "goat" for years and will require therapy at some point. Dhrama queen....

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7 hours ago, pete0 said:

I asked on here previously for anyone to name a team that has a Gana style player at Centre Mid and no one mentioned one. Closest is a few DMs being named as similar to him. There's a reason you won't find one. Most likely as you'll not find one training academy teaching players to play as recklessly as Gana. Football is a team game, more so when it comes to defending. All the coaching is about being a unit. Gana breaks that unit and leaves us exposed. We don't need an exact replacement. 

Doing exactly as his coach wants him to. Defending from the front alongside the attacking players, pushing the opposition back into their half and into errors. 

I’m worried when someone who doesn’t have Gana’s skill set tries to do this. 

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5 hours ago, Bailey said:

So who plays that way for City and Liverpool (presumably the two you would agree are the most high press)?

Liverpool don’t play their midfield three the same way we do, but tend to have at least one runner from the three break forward to support the strikers in the press. 

Couldnt tell you what City do, not seen enough of them but when I have they seem to have about 200% possession anyway. 

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We need to concentrate on winning the ball back as a team and not just think it’s the preserve of one player to go running around the pitch blindly looking for the ball but I don’t wish to dwell on the pros and cons of Gana we’ve debated that to much only to realise that Pete Bailey myself and I think Ghoat now are right 😀 

We need a MF that hunt like a pack of wolves when looking for the ball where everyone is working in a system, the pack is more successful as a team than as individuals who show disregard for the team, then you want a set of MFs who are comfortable in possession of the ball with vision and accuracy and the ability to retain the ball with a purpose. 

I don’t see a MF like that with Gana in it for me he is a loose cannon to much of an individual in an area that requires a pack ethic with discipline, maybe Delph is the player who can help deliver that alongside Gylfi and Gomes, but I will concede it didn’t look very convincing against Wigan, and when you saw how easily Gomes was beaten and left standing you couldn’t be blamed for thinking I wish Gana was there, but it’s early days and they need time too gel. 

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Ghoat is definitely right Palf haha. 

Mint sure how your equating his post as agreeable with you though? He’s pretty much said what EVERYONE has been telling you guys from the start. Or does this mean we’ve finally turned your opinion?

Basically: 

Gana is great at what he does, but it’s a double edged sword. What you gain in one area, you lose in another. That’s what we’ve all accepted.

I do t think Ghoat is trying to say Gana is a useless headless chicken anywhere is he? I may be wrong though 😉

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Kean seems like he would be a good addition, but have we ever done business with Juve, I don't recall anything?

Malcom may not address the striker issues, but given our relationship with Barca, that seems like a good possibility.

What happened with Neves, that's gone silent.

While we're stockpiling Brazilians with our inside man on the national team, have him work on Everton. Worth it just for the PR and bonanza for sports writers.

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8 hours ago, Shukes said:

Ghoat is definitely right Palf haha. 

Mint sure how your equating his post as agreeable with you though? He’s pretty much said what EVERYONE has been telling you guys from the start. Or does this mean we’ve finally turned your opinion?

Basically: 

Gana is great at what he does, but it’s a double edged sword. What you gain in one area, you lose in another. That’s what we’ve all accepted.

I do t think Ghoat is trying to say Gana is a useless headless chicken anywhere is he? I may be wrong though 😉

I think everyone has agreed he can tackle even Pete and myself, but that’s it nothing else to offer the team Zero, fuck all, zilch. 

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3 hours ago, Palfy said:

I think everyone has agreed he can tackle even Pete and myself, but that’s it nothing else to offer the team Zero, fuck all, zilch. 

Yes but that’s not what Ghoat was saying. Which is what I was saying. Soooo not sure where we’re going with this one 👀

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7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Excuse me for being thick but in what way is a fake festival fake haven’t been to one of them before. 

It’s a summer festival with tribute acts. Meant to be tour grade acts playing so should be pretty good.

Blondie, Pink, Duran Duran, chilli peppers, Foo fighters and Queen.

Excuse for a get together and alcohol really haha!

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11 minutes ago, Shukes said:

It’s a summer festival with tribute acts. Meant to be tour grade acts playing so should be pretty good.

Blondie, Pink, Duran Duran, chilli peppers, Foo fighters and Queen.

Excuse for a get together and alcohol really haha!

Sounds great hope you get good weather mate, and if the girl in the Blondie act looks like the early Debbie then your in for a treat.

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12 minutes ago, Shukes said:

It’s a summer festival with tribute acts. Meant to be tour grade acts playing so should be pretty good.

Blondie, Pink, Duran Duran, chilli peppers, Foo fighters and Queen.

Excuse for a get together and alcohol really haha!

Went to one last year, Glastonbudget, very hit and miss but a great weekend with a few old mates. Any how avoid the Dolly Parton experience if she's at your one, sounds more like mickey mouse! Green Date, a Green Day tribute, were just as good as he real thing though. Enjoy mate. 

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4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Went to one last year, Glastonbudget, very hit and miss but a great weekend with a few old mates. Any how avoid the Dolly Parton experience if she's at your one, sounds more like mickey mouse! Green Date, a Green Day tribute, were just as good as he real thing though. Enjoy mate. 

Cheers mate, really looking forward to it. Don’t get out much these days due to kids, so it’s a chance for me and the missus to let our hair down a bit.

Closing with Queen, so that should be a good sing along 🙂

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