Stadium at Garston

[Guest John Burns]

It has emerged that Bramley Moore Dock has many constraints to accommodate a world-class Premier League stadium. This initially attractive site is proving difficult, promising to deliver a sub-optimal stadium. One glaring point being fan access and now a capacity less than initially expected, after the hired architect, Dan Meis, assessed the site. The dock is only freely accessed from one side via the Dock Rd with the large Dock Rd wall still in situ, protected via the UNESCO agreement with the city. There is an unappealing sewage works on one side and dock waters on the other two. Not ideal at all for access and panic situations. Another glaring point is transport access.

 

These constraints are clear at why Dan Meis has been hinting at 52,000 and wanting fan feedback via presentations. Most fans are not amused with 52,000, as was hinted, and rightly so. A stadium of a capacity well less than Tottenham's new 62,000 capacity clearly will be built on the site. Even West Ham and the new Newcastle proposal will mean Everton will be 9th largest capacity in England.

 

The site is fraught with difficulties, physical and political, being a World Heritage site. There will be great opposition from influential bodies. The government will almost certainly call in the project for examination and assessment. The initial expectations of a 60,000 seater stadium has been reduced greatly.  Hopefully the site is slowly falling off the Everton F.C. and Liverpool Council radars for obvious reasons. But Everton F.C., need to be pointed in the right direction. 

 

There are few other good sites: 

 

Garston Gas Works

 

The site that clearly stands out is the old Garston Gasworks - the gas holders were removed a few years ago and were being dismantled when the Bramley Moore Dock site first came to light. 

• There are no buildings on the site, being a clear site. 
• It is a very large site and could easily hold two Emirates sized stadia. A 70,000 stadium with a large concourse can be accommodated at the ideal north-south orientation (TV cameras like it this way).
• The site runs right up to the end of 4 lane Horrocks Ave with the 6 platform South Parkway hub station only 400 metres away. The London and Manchester/Warrington lines and Merseyrail are served by the large station. Extra platforms can be allocated to Merseyrail services on match days. A new fast Chester service, via Runcorn, is starting at the end of the year.  Liverpool has a metro and comprehensive rail connections ready to use to serve this site.
• South Parkway 6-platform station is the same distance from the Garston site as Wembley stadium is to Wembley Park station. Wembley Park shifts 37,500 per hour.  A stadium at Garston can have its own Everton Way.
• South Parkway (at the bottom of the photo) reaches all of the Liverpool City Region with mass-transit Merseyrail at the station.
• Cressington station is also near to the site. 
• Four lane Horrocks Ave leads to three dual carriageways running into the city: Mather Ave, Menlove Ave (both leading to Queens Dr) and Brodie Ave, and also the single carriageway Halewood Rd. 
• There is the large Widnes Rd at the side of the site that will also access the Runcorn and Mersey Gateway bridges, running onto the M57/M56(M6)/M53.
• Aigburth Rd runs into the city from Garston with traffic able to peel off and run along the Dock Rd.
• An airport is nearby. 
• A disused railway bridge even runs into the site which can be used for fan pedestrian access. 
• The site will not have influential and powerful bodies opposing it, so there will be a quick design and approval time, which does not look the case with sensitive Bramley Moore Dock.
• The site is a 450 yards walk from Garston Docks, so even a ferry can service the site.
• A large vacant section of land on the adjacent dock estate can accommodate car parking.
• Garston has a number of cafes and pubs to service any large crowds attracting business into the district. 
• The top of a stadium will give spectacular views across the estuary, the two bridges, Liverpool's skyline and North Wales. This will impress the high numbers of visitors stadia bring to the city, giving a highly positive image.

The Garston site is preferable and ticks all boxes, accommodating a 60-62,000 stadium with ease, large enough for a club like Everton. Tottenham will have over 62,000 with corporate facilities serviced by two stations for their new stadium. Anything less than this is underselling Everton F.C. and the city.  The mass/rapid-transit rail has ensured the success of Arsenal and West Ham. The city has to use its rail infrastructure to its full advantage and to ensure a new Everton stadium will be a success. The attractive preferential funding enabled by Liverpool Council would still be in place at Garston, as it is 3 miles inside the city boundary when drawing a line to eastern Speke.

Costco Site:

 

This is near where Cosco and ToysRUs are located in Vauxhall: 

• The stadium could be built over Gt Howard St, or the road totally obliterated with traffic diverted along Love Lane, the Dock Rd and Vauxhall Rd. 
• The stadium could even be built over parts of the Northern Line track as it drops down to ground level around the side of the site, which is an ideal spot for a stadium station. 
• The Kingsway tunnel vent shaft appears an obstacle on the site. The vent shaft could be incorporated into the edge of a stadium structure, remodelled with a staircase spiralling around the vent tower.
• The Waterloo tunnel from Edge Hill emerges at the site, so ideal for a future station. 

Below: The vacant site at Garston is bordered in blue. South Parkway 6-platform hub station, at the bottom, is the same distance from the Garston site as Wembley stadium is to Wembley Park station.  South Parkway (at the bottom of the photo) reaches all of the Liverpool City Region with mass-transit Merseyrail at the station. The yellow is Everton Way.  

 

The city needs two top Premier League clubs, the gradual slide of Everton F.C. may mean the city will only have one.  No planning application has been submitted or land has been bought or leased yet. Everton F.C. need to seriously consider the superior alternative sites highlighted before Everton F.C., are too far down the process. 

[Bill]

who is this Geezer. ??

[aaron]

45 minutes ago, Bill said:

who is this Geezer. ??

 

Bill going all McGregor there

[Newty82]

It's bloody John Burns again!

Clever bastard has started a new account...but you can't mistake that style of post. As soon as I read 'mass transit rail...', it confirmed for me that it's good old Mr Burns.

Strap in lads, shits about to get bumpy.

[EFC-Paul]

2 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

It's bloody John Burns again!

Clever bastard has started a new account...but you can't mistake that style of post. As soon as I read 'mass transit rail...', it confirmed for me that it's good old Mr Burns.

Strap in lads, shits about to get bumpy.

Good shout! The plot thickens.....

[Romey 1878]

18 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

It's bloody John Burns again!

Clever bastard has started a new account...but you can't mistake that style of post. As soon as I read 'mass transit rail...', it confirmed for me that it's good old Mr Burns.

Strap in lads, shits about to get bumpy.

 exactly what I thought!

[Sibdane]

Who is paying John Burns to lobby for mass transit rails?? The man is relentless.

[Quinn31]

Honestly, I feel like the obsession with capacity among some is asinine. Old Trafford is a library - I'd rather fill 52000 seats and create atmosphere than try to go toe to toe with the Emirates, Spurs new stadium and kill the atmosphere or have a bunch of empty seats - Keep in mind that Goodison is 39.5k, even a jump to 52K is quite a leap.

[markjazzbassist]

4 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

Honestly, I feel like the obsession with capacity among some is asinine. Old Trafford is a library - I'd rather fill 52000 seats and create atmosphere than try to go toe to toe with the Emirates, Spurs new stadium and kill the atmosphere or have a bunch of empty seats - Keep in mind that Goodison is 39.5k, even a jump to 52K is quite a leap.

agreed, it's a who's is bigger contest and frankly its stupid.  52k is plenty large not to mention the larger corporate sections and sponsors will bring in a lot more revenue as well.

[Matt]

47 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

It's bloody John Burns again!

Clever bastard has started a new account...but you can't mistake that style of post. As soon as I read 'mass transit rail...', it confirmed for me that it's good old Mr Burns.

Strap in lads, shits about to get bumpy.

Can’t fault his dedication to a lost cause. 

Might just be me, but having bought the land, I doubt it will be falling off the radar...

[Bill]

It's got to be at least 55.000,  just a bit more than the gobshites across the park.

[Guest John Burns]

• No land or lease has been secured. None.
• Below 62,000 is underselling Everton F.C.
• 52,000 is sub-optimal when looking at the demand for season tickets when the team is doing badly and playing poor quality football.
• 52,000 will keep touts is business.
• 52,000 is like buying a coat that is too tight and cannot be buttoned up.
• Garston can provide a stadium the size Everton need. 
• LFC will have over 60,000, when one end is complete.
• Spurs are averaging 67,000 in a stadium outside their catchment area.
• This is about a suitable location and suitable sized stadium.
• Some people have choo-choo trains on the brain.
•  

 

[MikeO]

24 minutes ago, Owards said:

Some people have choo-choo trains on the brain.

Agree with that bit Mr Burns Owards,

[Quinn31]

33 minutes ago, Bill said:

It's got to be at least 55.000,  just a bit more than the gobshites across the park.

Perhaps beating them on the fucking pitch for the first time since 2010 would be better? Maybe an atmosphere too (Seems to have gone missing)?

[Matt]

38 minutes ago, Owards said:

• No land or lease has been secured. None.
• Below 62,000 is underselling Everton F.C.
• 52,000 is sub-optimal when looking at the demand for season tickets when the team is doing badly and playing poor quality football.
• 52,000 will keep touts is business.
• 52,000 is like buying a coat that is too tight and cannot be buttoned up.
• Garston can provide a stadium the size Everton need. 
• LFC will have over 60,000, when one end is complete.
• Spurs are averaging 67,000 in a stadium outside their catchment area.
• This is about a suitable location and suitable sized stadium.
• Some people have choo-choo trains on the brain.
•  

 

Funny, loads of articles and the Mayor confirming we have sealed the deal. Move along, John

[Guest John Burns]

• No land or lease has been secured. None.
• No deal of any sort has been secured. None.
• No stadium design has been released. None. 
• Architect was soliciting feedback. 

 

 

[Guest John Burns]

An Everton Way up to the stadium:

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, Owards said:

• No land or lease has been secured. None.
• No deal of any sort has been secured. None.
• No stadium design has been released. None. 
• Architect was soliciting feedback. 

 

 

We are moving to Bramley Moore Dock, be at peace with this.

We have a "Heads of Terms" agreement to acquire the site.

A funding agreement with Liverpool council has also been agreed.

No design has been released yet, but there have been design principles outlined.

Its great that architects look for feedback, it is going to be our stadium after all.

I cant understand why you are pushing for a sight that has all the drawbacks of project Kirby, and none of the plus points of BMD?

Why are you doing this?

 

[MikeO]

Just now, London Blue said:

Why are you doing this?

Out of work train driver?

[London Blue]

2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Out of work train driver?

Thomas or Gordon?

[Wiggytop]

9 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Out of work train driver?

Chuf chuf, woo, woo, all aboard the last train out of town

[London Blue]

 

[MikeO]

@London BlueI'll see your KLF and raise with the Monkees!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcXpKiY2MXE

[StevO]

Oh, John. You are a character. 

[Guest John Burns]

London Blue,

• Nothing is bought and no document can make EFC buy anything. 
• Read the 1st  post, the Garston site vastly superior to highly restrictive Bramley Moore Dock.
• The transport links at Garston are near as good as Wembley and better with road links.
• Garston can fit in a 100,000 stadium it is so big. 
• Bramley Moore Dock is a fully working dock employing people not derelict.
• Bramley Moore Dock can only fit in a small stadium. Not fit for purpose.
• Funding agreement is transferable as it is still within Liverpool.  3 miles to the border to Speke to the east. 

 

[Quinn31]

1 minute ago, Owards said:

London Blue,

• Nothing is bought and no document can make EFC buy anything. 
• Read the 1st  post the Garston site vastly superior to highly restrictive Bramley Moore Dock.
• The transport links at Garston are near as good as Wembley.
• Garston can fit in a 100,000 stadium it is so big. 

 

A binding Purchase and Sale Agreement begs to disagree with you. 

[StevO]

I’ve asked you this question before John, but I’ll try again. 

When did you take this info to the club?

what was their response?

[Guest John Burns]

16 minutes ago, Quinn31 said:

A binding Purchase and Sale Agreement begs to disagree with you. 

• The document is not binding.   https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/0-107-6683?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1
• In 18 months nothing has happened. 

[Guest John Burns]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

I’ve asked you this question before John, but I’ll try again. 

When did you take this info to the club?

what was their response?

All relevant parties are aware: metro-mayor, mayor, architect, EFC.  Bramley Moore is a blind alley.  A world heritage site fraught with difficulty. Too small for a stadium - smaller than they first thought.  It will be called in by HMG.  Garston ticks all the boxes. The place is also full of pubs and character. 

[Guest John Burns]

With Garston the club gets what it wants and quick with no delays.