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Elephant in the room


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10 hours ago, Matt said:

Again, there’s no way he had anything more than a curtesy say in those two signings. His damage is still to be realised in its fullest extent though. 

Walcotts said that the main reason he came was because of Allerdyce, he also tried to sign Tosun for Palace. I hared Allerdyce  but to say he is the cause of our problems is just stupid Matt- did he blow £150 million on absolute shite, did he leave us with a massively unballanced squad, did he try and fit 3 No10s in all the time? 

Love him

or hate him, he was paid to do a job ( keep us up) and he done it. Walcotts a good signing, I’m yet to be convinced on Tosun but Koeman and Walsh fucked us up.

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1 hour ago, Paddock said:

Walcotts said that the main reason he came was because of Allerdyce, he also tried to sign Tosun for Palace. I hared Allerdyce  but to say he is the cause of our problems is just stupid Matt- did he blow £150 million on absolute shite, did he leave us with a massively unballanced squad, did he try and fit 3 No10s in all the time? 

Love him

or hate him, he was paid to do a job ( keep us up) and he done it. Walcotts a good signing, I’m yet to be convinced on Tosun but Koeman and Walsh fucked us up.

Of course Walcott said that, he was signing for a new club. The fact that he was at Palace whilst their scouting network identified Tosun is coincidence.

Im saying his damage is yet to be realised.  I’m not saying he’s to blame 100% because he wasn’t involved in any of the transfers, but I assure you we’ll suffer long term because of him. 

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On 27/07/2018 at 07:48, Matt said:

Of course Walcott said that, he was signing for a new club. The fact that he was at Palace whilst their scouting network identified Tosun is coincidence.

Im saying his damage is yet to be realised.  I’m not saying he’s to blame 100% because he wasn’t involved in any of the transfers, but I assure you we’ll suffer long term because of him. 

Why?? He’s gone- he managed a group of players for 6 months, brought 2 decent additions to the squad and steadied a sinking ship and kept us up. That’s it, there are no repercussions to it, it’s not like he built a team or moulded it for 3 seasons - I can’t understand why you think a (practically) caretaker manager of 6 months will have a long lasting affect on the team. Koeman and Walsh done the damage by bringing shit players in on huge wages, an unbalanced squad, no left back cover, paying massively over the odds for players we didn’t really need, spending a whole window chasing Sigguardson whilst criminally neglecting other areas of the squad. That’s where the rot set in and none of that is Allardyces fault. 

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6 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Why?? He’s gone- he managed a group of players for 6 months, brought 2 decent additions to the squad and steadied a sinking ship and kept us up. That’s it, there are no repercussions to it, it’s not like he built a team or moulded it for 3 seasons - I can’t understand why you think a (practically) caretaker manager of 6 months will have a long lasting affect on the team. Koeman and Walsh done the damage by bringing shit players in on huge wages, an unbalanced squad, no left back cover, paying massively over the odds for players we didn’t really need, spending a whole window chasing Sigguardson whilst criminally neglecting other areas of the squad. That’s where the rot set in and none of that is Allardyces fault. 

I can’t understand how you don’t see how his negative and undermining mentality won’t have effected players and staff :) his approach, tactics, etc. have to be coached out of people which takes time. 

I already said he had nothing to do with the transfers, twice now, so don’t know why you’re continuing to bring that up. As for steadying the sinking ship, you already know how I feel about that. 

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3 hours ago, Matt said:

I can’t understand how you don’t see how his negative and undermining mentality won’t have effected players and staff :) his approach, tactics, etc. have to be coached out of people which takes time. 

I already said he had nothing to do with the transfers, twice now, so don’t know why you’re continuing to bring that up. As for steadying the sinking ship, you already know how I feel about that. 

Because he did have something to do with the transfers- he was the manager and without his say so they don’t areive. I’m not sure how you can be so confident he never. Walcott said him and Rooney where a huge part of him coming, why would he lie, Tosun was on his radar before he came here- how do you know for sure he never suggested him to the scouting team?

His mentality won’t have rubbed off on them at all, they are professional sportsmen and will play how they are told to play- 6 months is not enough time to change a teams dynamics to a point it’s stuck that way- it took Martinez 1 season to undo 10 years of Moyes work. I hated the fact Allardyce was our manager but the square root of our problems fall firmly at Walsh and Koemans feet- alls Allardyce done was come in and keep us up. Whether we’d of stayed up anyway we will never know but he dome what he was hired to do- how he done it isn’t really relevant anymore, luckily we didn’t have to let him buy 6 or 7 players to keep us up. 

Personally I think the damage the other 2 knobheads have done is still not finished and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Silva was sacked by January and I equally wouldn’t be surprissd if we went down this season. We are in a right mess all over the pitch but none of that is Allardyce- he brought in Walcott who was a decent signing and Tosun who I’m not convinced of. The reat of the squad is what he inherited. 

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4 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Because he did have something to do with the transfers- he was the manager and without his say so they don’t areive. I’m not sure how you can be so confident he never. Walcott said him and Rooney where a huge part of him coming, why would he lie, Tosun was on his radar before he came here- how do you know for sure he never suggested him to the scouting team?

His mentality won’t have rubbed off on them at all, they are professional sportsmen and will play how they are told to play- 6 months is not enough time to change a teams dynamics to a point it’s stuck that way- it took Martinez 1 season to undo 10 years of Moyes work. I hated the fact Allardyce was our manager but the square root of our problems fall firmly at Walsh and Koemans feet- alls Allardyce done was come in and keep us up. Whether we’d of stayed up anyway we will never know but he dome what he was hired to do- how he done it isn’t really relevant anymore, luckily we didn’t have to let him buy 6 or 7 players to keep us up. 

Personally I think the damage the other 2 knobheads have done is still not finished and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Silva was sacked by January and I equally wouldn’t be surprissd if we went down this season. We are in a right mess all over the pitch but none of that is Allardyce- he brought in Walcott who was a decent signing and Tosun who I’m not convinced of. The reat of the squad is what he inherited. 

Walsh and Mohsiri scouted Tosun before Koeman was sacked. Mohsiri wouldnt have gone unless it was very serious. Kenwright said at the AGM or EGM it was Walsh's deal. 

I think Tosun has also done a lot more than Walcott since he has been here. Walcott had a couple of good games and then fell off a cliff.

 

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3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Walsh and Mohsiri scouted Tosun before Koeman was sacked. Mohsiri wouldnt have gone unless it was very serious. Kenwright said at the AGM or EGM it was Walsh's deal. 

I think Tosun has also done a lot more than Walcott since he has been here. Walcott had a couple of good games and then fell off a cliff.

 

So why did he only arrive when Allardyce areived. He’s hardly set the world on fire either. I think Walcotts done well since he came.

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I’m sure that Sam was always a short team deal. That’s why he turned it down at the start. Yes we gave him a better contract, but that was just a formality. 

I honestly don’t see us hiring a manager until the end of the season and letting him have his own transfer window..... that’s absolute madness. If we did then they all need to go because they couldn’t  organise a BJ in a brothel, let alone a football club!

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1 hour ago, Paddock said:

Because he did have something to do with the transfers- he was the manager and without his say so they don’t areive. I’m not sure how you can be so confident he never. Walcott said him and Rooney where a huge part of him coming, why would he lie, Tosun was on his radar before he came here- how do you know for sure he never suggested him to the scouting team?

His mentality won’t have rubbed off on them at all, they are professional sportsmen and will play how they are told to play- 6 months is not enough time to change a teams dynamics to a point it’s stuck that way- it took Martinez 1 season to undo 10 years of Moyes work. I hated the fact Allardyce was our manager but the square root of our problems fall firmly at Walsh and Koemans feet- alls Allardyce done was come in and keep us up. Whether we’d of stayed up anyway we will never know but he dome what he was hired to do- how he done it isn’t really relevant anymore, luckily we didn’t have to let him buy 6 or 7 players to keep us up. 

Personally I think the damage the other 2 knobheads have done is still not finished and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if Silva was sacked by January and I equally wouldn’t be surprissd if we went down this season. We are in a right mess all over the pitch but none of that is Allardyce- he brought in Walcott who was a decent signing and Tosun who I’m not convinced of. The reat of the squad is what he inherited. 

How can you be so confident he did? I’m confident he didn’t because the scouting team, DoF etc do the work with this new setup and the manager says yes or no usually. But I don’t think that was th case with him as he was a stop gap - if any of the powers that be in the club let him get involved with anything other than team management until the end of the season I’d be amazed at their true incompetence  

Not repeating myself with th transfers of Walsh and Koeman. 

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55 minutes ago, Matt said:

How can you be so confident he did? I’m confident he didn’t because the scouting team, DoF etc do the work with this new setup and the manager says yes or no usually. But I don’t think that was th case with him as he was a stop gap - if any of the powers that be in the club let him get involved with anything other than team management until the end of the season I’d be amazed at their true incompetence  

Not repeating myself with th transfers of Walsh and Koeman. 

Because he said so and so did Walcott. I’ll take their words over educated guesses.

Everyone has short term memory loss if they are forgetting how bad we were when he took over. Blaming Allardyce is ridiculous, he worked with what he was given bar two signings, one of which said he had convinced him to come and the other said he’d almost signed for Allardyce when he was Palace manager.

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5 minutes ago, Paddock said:

Because he said so and so did Walcott. I’ll take their words over educated guesses.

Everyone has short term memory loss if they are forgetting how bad we were when he took over. Blaming Allardyce is ridiculous, he worked with what he was given bar two signings, one of which said he had convinced him to come and the other said he’d almost signed for Allardyce when he was Palace manager.

If you’re willing to take his word, then there’s no point in discussing further. 

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I read what they said myself. Pretty much every player we have brought have said the same about whoever is in charge for the last three years.

What I do t get is the rest of it Pad. You can be a miserable twat when it comes to Everton,... and I mean that in a friendly way, but Sam has managed to make even you more down on Everton mate. 

We were bad before Sam took over, we were. But once he took over we turned into a truly awful team to watch. Neutral fans turned on us because we were so poor. Our young players became disillusioned because they knew their days were numbered. He didn’t save us fall on relegation either, we mid table and only a few points behind the top six, just as close to the bottom as we were to the top. We turned into an UGLY club under Sam. There shouldn’t be any defence of his tenure here. 

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4 minutes ago, Matt said:

I believe they followed the new signing procedure of saying the manager was important in their decision to join and that’s about it. Hollow words usually said in a first interview. 

We have all been commenting the last 12 months on how the interviews are so scripted. Politics have taken over.

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5 minutes ago, Shukes said:

We have all been commenting the last 12 months on how the interviews are so scripted. Politics have taken over.

Indeed they have, and the last manager is the Donald Trump of football management in everything he does and says. 

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25 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I read what they said myself. Pretty much every player we have brought have said the same about whoever is in charge for the last three years.

What I do t get is the rest of it Pad. You can be a miserable twat when it comes to Everton,... and I mean that in a friendly way, but Sam has managed to make even you more down on Everton mate. 

We were bad before Sam took over, we were. But once he took over we turned into a truly awful team to watch. Neutral fans turned on us because we were so poor. Our young players became disillusioned because they knew their days were numbered. He didn’t save us fall on relegation either, we mid table and only a few points behind the top six, just as close to the bottom as we were to the top. We turned into an UGLY club under Sam. There shouldn’t be any defence of his tenure here. 

Yes because before he took over we were playing super exciting football, freescoring and defending well 🙄🙄 we were getting twattec every week by shite teams. He made us no better but certainly no worse. Because he was hated everything magnifies with him. What Kieman and Walsh done was 100 times worse- it was gross fucking negligence. Allardyce was a bad bullshitter but so was Martinez. He never claimed to be anything hut what he was and that’s a manager who keeps teams up- we hired him to keep us up and he did. We all knew exactly what we were getting with him but again because he’s hated his comments are blown into some sort of evil cult- nothing he said was worse than Martinez claiming we didn’t bother to defend set pieces, he’d sooner us lose 4-3 than win a boring 1-0- Southampton whalloped us 3-0 and he said there was nothing in the game yet this was all accepted no problem. Allardyce is a shauster and a blag merchant but he done no worse a job than Martinez in his 2nd and 3rd seasons and turned Koemans pile of utter shit into 8th place. 

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Exactly Pad.... just what your saying, football wise he made the square root of fuck all difference... because after he came, we started to play attractive football that everyone loved to watch 🙄🙄🙄

Look. I think we were in a worse state from having him. 

For some reason, and heaven knows what, you see it differently. That’s what makes you special, your one in a million.

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1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Exactly Pad.... just what your saying, football wise he made the square root of fuck all difference... because after he came, we started to play attractive football that everyone loved to watch 🙄🙄🙄

Look. I think we were in a worse state from having him. 

For some reason, and heaven knows what, you see it differently. That’s what makes you special, your one in a million.

We’re not in a worse state- how can we be in a worse state when we finished 8th and have exactly the same squad of players plus 2 additions that have helped the team. How can we possibly be in a worse state- he’s not blown all the money, he’s not sold all the players or brought in 7 30 plussers??? If Unsworth would have taken over and done exactly what Allardyce did everyone would be screaming for him to get the job- absolute fact but because he’s hated anything good he done doesn’t count and everything bad he done is 100 times worse than any other manager.

We were in shit street when he took over, he stabilised us then we tredded water and finished 8th- he had the same players to work with as Koeman did bar the 2 he brought in- Koemans team was and still is a shambles- hiw can you blame Allardyce for any of that?

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Pad, surely you understand your words are not fact? They are just your opinion. Bloody hell I hate being wrong, but you put even me to shame.

My opinion is that we are in a worse state.

My reasoning? We have players like Lookman, possibly wanting to leave. We have neutral fans classing us as a mid table team... and I mean 10th. We have young players looking elsewhere as they didn’t get a chance under him.

Dicuss opinions Pad, but don’t tell me yours are fact as they simply aren’t.

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31 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Pad, surely you understand your words are not fact? They are just your opinion. Bloody hell I hate being wrong, but you put even me to shame.

My opinion is that we are in a worse state.

My reasoning? We have players like Lookman, possibly wanting to leave. We have neutral fans classing us as a mid table team... and I mean 10th. We have young players looking elsewhere as they didn’t get a chance under him.

Dicuss opinions Pad, but don’t tell me yours are fact as they simply aren’t.

Who’s arsed what other fans think about ilus- how does that impact on the teams performance? Lookman was begged to stay in England he refused and went to Germany- maybe Allardyce knew he’d do well there and didn’t want him having his head turned- maybe he didn’t - who knows. Who are all these young players who never got a chance Shukes and are now looking elsewhere? I can’t see any other than Lookman. have I said my opinions are fact, you on the other hand are throwing random shouts in like young players wanting out like we’ve got an abundance of young players ready to break into the first team but now want to go and other fans opinions of us to justify your argument that we are worse off.

the facts are we finished 8th, if Unsworth would have got 8th he would have been applauded no matrer how he done it but Allardyce could have won a cup and he’d of still not been welcome. He wasn’t wanted so everything is made to look worse. It’s exactly the same squad, same players and with the exception of Lookman - who by the way was getting zero minutes anyway before Allardyce arrived wanting out I fail to see a difference in any of the shit storm Koeman left.

You can’t have it both ways and say he never improved us and slate him for it then  the few crumbs of comfort ie Walcott and Tosun had nothing to do with him as the board would be mad to let him have a say in anything. If he has no say he can’t improve us can he- all’s he can do is work with the shite he’s given which he got to 8th.

 

sorry just to edit this- the fans classing us as a mid table team because of Allardyce who finished 8th but Martinez finished 11th twice. Get in the bin will you Shukes I’m done with this I really am.

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1 hour ago, Matt said:

I believe they followed the new signing procedure of saying the manager was important in their decision to join and that’s about it. Hollow words usually said in a first interview. 

Do we say he had nothing to do with anything good ut slate him for not improving us when he wasn’t allowed any say in anything. Ok Matt 👍👍

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