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markjazzbassist

Arsenal (Away) Sunday September 23rd

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4 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

When we're in need of a powerhouse box to box midfielder, playing a scrawny, coming to the end of his career Baines isn'ttt progressive. It's downright suicidal.

I wasn't really being serious, but I don't think age has anything to do with it. We let Barry go a season too soon and I'd have Milner in our midfield any day of the week. What our midfielders lack more than anything is intelligence. 

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15 minutes ago, nogs said:

I wasn't really being serious, but I don't think age has anything to do with it. We let Barry go a season too soon and I'd have Milner in our midfield any day of the week. What our midfielders lack more than anything is intelligence. 

It's got everything to do with it when it comes to Baines, because his legs will not be able to cope playing that role.

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4 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

It's got everything to do with it when it comes to Baines, because his legs will not be able to cope playing that role.

Well either way we'll get turned over royally at the Emirates because however people want to dress it up, we don't have the players to win the midfield battles

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Don’t see how u can drop Digne after Sunday. 

                     Pickford

kenny          Mina    Zouma   Digne

                    Gana   Gilfi

walcott            Bernard      Richarlison

                        Tosun 

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3 hours ago, Finn balor said:

Don’t see how u can drop Digne after Sunday. 

                     Pickford

kenny          Mina    Zouma   Digne

                    Gana   Gilfi

walcott            Bernard      Richarlison

                        Tosun 

I’d like to see this as well. Depending on how Mina has gone in training. 

 

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On 19/09/2018 at 19:29, EFC-Paul said:

Bailey with all due respect mate I know it's not FIFA but you quote stats and all sorts of information as if this is Football Manager that are in the main more akin to a simulated game, for me to suggest playing two midfielders in midfield in roles they have played for club and country isn'tttt in the slightest bit FIFA related mate 

Sigurdsson played behind the strikers with a fairly free rain in midfield where he's at his best that's purely what I'm suggesting he's not Flash but he's quicker and more agile than Tom and Morgan so will/could get about more and Bernard is far more technical and creative than either 

I do want Bernard to find space and create that's the type of player he is, was Countinho built like a brick shithouse did he track back and defend does Silva do it often did Mahrez and so on? They have a specific role for their skillset I see Bernard as no different he's that kind of player 

Gana is the best defensive midfielder for me he does what they are supposed to as you say tackling and intercepting but as we know there's no cohesion with having sub par midfielders to pick the ball up and move it forward. That's why I'd like to see him on his own playing deep doing what he's good at then playing it simple to someone who can carry the ball up field

Either way I hope something changes or clicks soon as we look dogshit  

I quote stats to add to the debate whether to back up a point I have made or to go against a point someone else has made. I have never relied on a stat on its own and formed an opinion around it.

There is a big difference between only having to track a full back when playing as a winger and having to cover space in midfield. To suggest someone tracking back on the wing is the same as defending in central midfield is ridiculous. 

Again Coutinho played in a very attacking side in a completely different style largely with two work horses behind him. Mahrez played wide. 

On 19/09/2018 at 22:07, markjazzbassist said:

glad to see some others aren't sold on the 2 DM system as well. and for the record bailey i don't play video games ala football manager (any at all really).  it works for plenty of teams (like i said look at Leeds in a league below us much more physical league).

I just looked at the Leeds side that beat Preston. One defensive midfielder playig at DM (Phillips), one DM playing a more central role (Klich) and then Saiz ahead of them. That was the same against Millwall. 

Against Middlesborough Klich played a more advanced role but he still isnt an attacking midfielder by trade which is my point. 

This is actually how I would like to see us play when we have the personel. 1 DM ahead of one supporting central midfielder and one attacking central midfielder. Which is something we can hopefully do when Gomes is fully fit.

(FWIW my info on Klich comes from various internet sites, I have never seen anything of him until he came to Leeds.)

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It doesn't add to debate for me personally as they can be misconstrued to suite whomever is posting them, the point I was making is you referenced a game when all the statistical analysis's is very FM based

I've no problems with it but when suggesting playing two players in positions they've already played in effectively as being like a game is a tad daft 

Who's the winger your referring to that I've not even mentioned or can't remember mentioning? Also the point of Coutinho stands imo and the others as that's what we'd become more of if we didn't persist with two deep midfielders and deployed a system similar to the ones suggested above 

He's a slight playmaker who did more than alright in this league and there's plenty of examples to choose from so to discount Bernard due to his size is ridiculous and premature, Mahrez played both out wide and centrally especially under Puel but the point being that type of player with that kind of build can do extremely well if used right 

You've even said yourself in multiple threads that Sigurdsson is better playing deeper which is what I've said 

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2 hours ago, EFC-Paul said:

It doesn't add to debate for me personally as they can be misconstrued to suite whomever is posting them, the point I was making is you referenced a game when all the statistical analysis's is very FM based

I've no problems with it but when suggesting playing two players in positions they've already played in effectively as being like a game is a tad daft 

Who's the winger your referring to that I've not even mentioned or can't remember mentioning? Also the point of Coutinho stands imo and the others as that's what we'd become more of if we didn't persist with two deep midfielders and deployed a system similar to the ones suggested above 

He's a slight playmaker who did more than alright in this league and there's plenty of examples to choose from so to discount Bernard due to his size is ridiculous and premature, Mahrez played both out wide and centrally especially under Puel but the point being that type of player with that kind of build can do extremely well if used right 

You've even said yourself in multiple threads that Sigurdsson is better playing deeper which is what I've said 

You seem to be missing every point I am trying to put across, although maybe that is because I am not making them very well.

I mentioned FIFA because lots of players like to cram all their best players into positions they dont naturally play in because they want the best, quickest or strongest players in their team. Stats are evidence, you might not like them, but they cant be dismissed out of hand because they are fact. Its then a question of how you apply the stat and whilst I do look at stats its normally to back up or dismiss what I or someone else have seen visually.

From what I have seen Sigurdsson has largely played his career wide or as a number 10, which is also very similar to Bernard. Neither, as far as I am aware, have started more than half a dozen games deeper. I have seen Siggy play in central midfield twice for Iceland and both time he was poor.  They have never been known as genuine central midfielders and therefore I think my comparison to FIFA players is more than fair.

I might have misunderstood your 3rd paragraph. I thought you were talking about Bernard tracking back on a wing but now I think you are talking about Coutinho.

The Coutinho point doesnt stand because we play nothing like Liverpool. We dont hog possession like they do and win the ball back in the opposition half like they do and we wont spend as much time in the opposition half as they do. The OP I responded to also referred to playing both Siggy and Bernard ahead of 1 defensive midfielder. Countinho would have been playing along side two other workhorse midfielders such as Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum etc. As I have said, in the right team and in the right games under the right tactics it might be possible but in our side right now its just madness.

I have not discounted Bernard purely for his size. He isnt a natural central midfielder, he has only just arrived in this league, AND he has no physical presence. Coutinho may also have been on the smaller side but her was still 8cm taller than Bernard and I would imagine at least half a stoe heavier AND he only played centrally once he had played in the league for 2 or 3 seasons. Mahrez played as a number 10 not as a central midfielder under Puel.

https://www.squawka.com/en/news/claude-puel-the-position-that-makes-mahrez-dangerous/1004134#vP5mj11QSJo6hd8h.97

I have said that Siggy is at his best when he is playing closer to other players whether that be from the left, right or through the central. With someone like Walcott you want them in some space to use their pace to create some separation or attack the opposition 1 v 1 whereas Sigurdsson needs to be in the thick of things so that he can link up with the strikers, wingers, 10's etc. I would like to see Siggy in a midfield with a holding player and a genuine central midfielder so that he is closer to the midfield two but with defensive cover and also free to break forward and able to link with the players ahead of him but that would mean no traditional number 10. You might be able to get away with Schneiderlin and Siggy together for short periods of time or in certain games but over the long term I am not convinced that they could form a winning partnership and against the big boys I think it would be a disaster. A combination of Siggy and any other fit central midfielder wouldn't work IMO and nor would Bernard and any central midfielder at the club.

 

 

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Good post but I got lost half way through it. That was due to my own stupidity, football these days is all about playing between the lines etc? What is that about? Just play your best eleven and see who wins. I wonder in a few years if it goes back to 4-4-2 and people label it a master stroke 😂. You obviously know your stuff bailey, I’m a bit of meh on gilfi. He’s not a Cahill or certainly an arteta. He needs to prove himself. He’s good granted but not great on his performances thus far 

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16 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

Just play your best eleven and see who wins. I wonder in a few years if it goes back to 4-4-2 and people label it a master stroke 😂.

2-3-1-2-1-1-1 is the future, you heard it here first!

Seriously though I agree with you, obsession with formations has got daft. Few footballers are noted for their intellect, they mostly got good by skipping school. Keep it simple.

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18 hours ago, Bailey said:

You seem to be missing every point I am trying to put across, although maybe that is because I am not making them very well.

I mentioned FIFA because lots of players like to cram all their best players into positions they dont naturally play in because they want the best, quickest or strongest players in their team. Stats are evidence, you might not like them, but they cant be dismissed out of hand because they are fact. Its then a question of how you apply the stat and whilst I do look at stats its normally to back up or dismiss what I or someone else have seen visually.

From what I have seen Sigurdsson has largely played his career wide or as a number 10, which is also very similar to Bernard. Neither, as far as I am aware, have started more than half a dozen games deeper. I have seen Siggy play in central midfield twice for Iceland and both time he was poor.  They have never been known as genuine central midfielders and therefore I think my comparison to FIFA players is more than fair.

I might have misunderstood your 3rd paragraph. I thought you were talking about Bernard tracking back on a wing but now I think you are talking about Coutinho.

The Coutinho point doesnt stand because we play nothing like Liverpool. We dont hog possession like they do and win the ball back in the opposition half like they do and we wont spend as much time in the opposition half as they do. The OP I responded to also referred to playing both Siggy and Bernard ahead of 1 defensive midfielder. Countinho would have been playing along side two other workhorse midfielders such as Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum etc. As I have said, in the right team and in the right games under the right tactics it might be possible but in our side right now its just madness.

I have not discounted Bernard purely for his size. He isnt a natural central midfielder, he has only just arrived in this league, AND he has no physical presence. Coutinho may also have been on the smaller side but her was still 8cm taller than Bernard and I would imagine at least half a stoe heavier AND he only played centrally once he had played in the league for 2 or 3 seasons. Mahrez played as a number 10 not as a central midfielder under Puel.

https://www.squawka.com/en/news/claude-puel-the-position-that-makes-mahrez-dangerous/1004134#vP5mj11QSJo6hd8h.97

I have said that Siggy is at his best when he is playing closer to other players whether that be from the left, right or through the central. With someone like Walcott you want them in some space to use their pace to create some separation or attack the opposition 1 v 1 whereas Sigurdsson needs to be in the thick of things so that he can link up with the strikers, wingers, 10's etc. I would like to see Siggy in a midfield with a holding player and a genuine central midfielder so that he is closer to the midfield two but with defensive cover and also free to break forward and able to link with the players ahead of him but that would mean no traditional number 10. You might be able to get away with Schneiderlin and Siggy together for short periods of time or in certain games but over the long term I am not convinced that they could form a winning partnership and against the big boys I think it would be a disaster. A combination of Siggy and any other fit central midfielder wouldn't work IMO and nor would Bernard and any central midfielder at the club.

 

 

I'm not missing any points Bailey I get what your saying but completely disagree with it 

To "try" and keep it short as the above is far to long winded...

I've not said Sigurdsson would play deeper I'm saying he has the ability to pick the ball up from deeper use his physicality and passing etc to a greater effect than what we've been served up so far simply put he has played that role and can play the role of a ball carrier he had that free reign at Swansea if you've never seen him pick the ball up from deeper and make forward runs for them your blind or have never watched them play, as you've said yourself in other threads he's better coming from a deeper position but really can't be arsed quoting it all 

Bernard has played central midfield many times and also as a creative central mid a position we've been lacking in for years so I'm not sure where you've got this winger stuff from 

All those players have similar slight statures you can't dismiss that even if he is slightly smaller 🤣 

Anyway I'll leave it there Sigurdsson to play the role of a ball carrying type midfielder and Bernard to be a creative central mid will it happen probably not would it be better than having two deeper mids with a non creative one trying to go forward Infront of them.... Definitely 

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OK so about to head out a couple of miles to a bar that will doubtlessly be all red apart from me. Miracle please lads, or at least can we minimise the derision/sympathy I have to endure?

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4 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Richarlison is so fuckin good. 

Yeah any thoughts on putting him up top with Bernard on the left with Walcott on the right. Seems much more dangerous than DCL or Tosun up top. 

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Perhaps that should have been more than an yellow card. Was a joke, just forgot to put in some emote. Wasn't really a yellow card, I think.

 

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