Romey 1878 Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, nogs said: I wasn't really being serious, but I don't think age has anything to do with it. We let Barry go a season too soon and I'd have Milner in our midfield any day of the week. What our midfielders lack more than anything is intelligence. It's got everything to do with it when it comes to Baines, because his legs will not be able to cope playing that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogs Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: It's got everything to do with it when it comes to Baines, because his legs will not be able to cope playing that role. Well either way we'll get turned over royally at the Emirates because however people want to dress it up, we don't have the players to win the midfield battles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbanyNYToffee Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 Pickford Kenny Holgate Zouma Baines Davies Gana Siggy Bernard Tosun Richarlison Bench: Stek Mina Digne Schneiderlin Walcott DCL Niasse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 Don’t see how u can drop Digne after Sunday. Pickford kenny Mina Zouma Digne Gana Gilfi walcott Bernard Richarlison Tosun markjazzbassist and nyblue23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Finn balor said: Don’t see how u can drop Digne after Sunday. Pickford kenny Mina Zouma Digne Gana Gilfi walcott Bernard Richarlison Tosun I’d like to see this as well. Depending on how Mina has gone in training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted September 21, 2018 Report Share Posted September 21, 2018 On 20/09/2018 at 13:42, markjazzbassist said: didn't we beat them with roberto? 1-1. Everything from Roberto's first season just seemed rosier than it was. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Quinn31 said: 1-1. Everything from Roberto's first season just seemed rosier than it was. it was goodison the 3-0 thrashing with lukaku on the left of a forward 3 the day after my son was born. thought it was the emirates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 On 19/09/2018 at 19:29, EFC-Paul said: Bailey with all due respect mate I know it's not FIFA but you quote stats and all sorts of information as if this is Football Manager that are in the main more akin to a simulated game, for me to suggest playing two midfielders in midfield in roles they have played for club and country isn'tttt in the slightest bit FIFA related mate Sigurdsson played behind the strikers with a fairly free rain in midfield where he's at his best that's purely what I'm suggesting he's not Flash but he's quicker and more agile than Tom and Morgan so will/could get about more and Bernard is far more technical and creative than either I do want Bernard to find space and create that's the type of player he is, was Countinho built like a brick shithouse did he track back and defend does Silva do it often did Mahrez and so on? They have a specific role for their skillset I see Bernard as no different he's that kind of player Gana is the best defensive midfielder for me he does what they are supposed to as you say tackling and intercepting but as we know there's no cohesion with having sub par midfielders to pick the ball up and move it forward. That's why I'd like to see him on his own playing deep doing what he's good at then playing it simple to someone who can carry the ball up field Either way I hope something changes or clicks soon as we look dogshit I quote stats to add to the debate whether to back up a point I have made or to go against a point someone else has made. I have never relied on a stat on its own and formed an opinion around it. There is a big difference between only having to track a full back when playing as a winger and having to cover space in midfield. To suggest someone tracking back on the wing is the same as defending in central midfield is ridiculous. Again Coutinho played in a very attacking side in a completely different style largely with two work horses behind him. Mahrez played wide. On 19/09/2018 at 22:07, markjazzbassist said: glad to see some others aren't sold on the 2 DM system as well. and for the record bailey i don't play video games ala football manager (any at all really). it works for plenty of teams (like i said look at Leeds in a league below us much more physical league). I just looked at the Leeds side that beat Preston. One defensive midfielder playig at DM (Phillips), one DM playing a more central role (Klich) and then Saiz ahead of them. That was the same against Millwall. Against Middlesborough Klich played a more advanced role but he still isnt an attacking midfielder by trade which is my point. This is actually how I would like to see us play when we have the personel. 1 DM ahead of one supporting central midfielder and one attacking central midfielder. Which is something we can hopefully do when Gomes is fully fit. (FWIW my info on Klich comes from various internet sites, I have never seen anything of him until he came to Leeds.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 It doesn't add to debate for me personally as they can be misconstrued to suite whomever is posting them, the point I was making is you referenced a game when all the statistical analysis's is very FM based I've no problems with it but when suggesting playing two players in positions they've already played in effectively as being like a game is a tad daft Who's the winger your referring to that I've not even mentioned or can't remember mentioning? Also the point of Coutinho stands imo and the others as that's what we'd become more of if we didn't persist with two deep midfielders and deployed a system similar to the ones suggested above He's a slight playmaker who did more than alright in this league and there's plenty of examples to choose from so to discount Bernard due to his size is ridiculous and premature, Mahrez played both out wide and centrally especially under Puel but the point being that type of player with that kind of build can do extremely well if used right You've even said yourself in multiple threads that Sigurdsson is better playing deeper which is what I've said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 2 hours ago, EFC-Paul said: It doesn't add to debate for me personally as they can be misconstrued to suite whomever is posting them, the point I was making is you referenced a game when all the statistical analysis's is very FM based I've no problems with it but when suggesting playing two players in positions they've already played in effectively as being like a game is a tad daft Who's the winger your referring to that I've not even mentioned or can't remember mentioning? Also the point of Coutinho stands imo and the others as that's what we'd become more of if we didn't persist with two deep midfielders and deployed a system similar to the ones suggested above He's a slight playmaker who did more than alright in this league and there's plenty of examples to choose from so to discount Bernard due to his size is ridiculous and premature, Mahrez played both out wide and centrally especially under Puel but the point being that type of player with that kind of build can do extremely well if used right You've even said yourself in multiple threads that Sigurdsson is better playing deeper which is what I've said You seem to be missing every point I am trying to put across, although maybe that is because I am not making them very well. I mentioned FIFA because lots of players like to cram all their best players into positions they dont naturally play in because they want the best, quickest or strongest players in their team. Stats are evidence, you might not like them, but they cant be dismissed out of hand because they are fact. Its then a question of how you apply the stat and whilst I do look at stats its normally to back up or dismiss what I or someone else have seen visually. From what I have seen Sigurdsson has largely played his career wide or as a number 10, which is also very similar to Bernard. Neither, as far as I am aware, have started more than half a dozen games deeper. I have seen Siggy play in central midfield twice for Iceland and both time he was poor. They have never been known as genuine central midfielders and therefore I think my comparison to FIFA players is more than fair. I might have misunderstood your 3rd paragraph. I thought you were talking about Bernard tracking back on a wing but now I think you are talking about Coutinho. The Coutinho point doesnt stand because we play nothing like Liverpool. We dont hog possession like they do and win the ball back in the opposition half like they do and we wont spend as much time in the opposition half as they do. The OP I responded to also referred to playing both Siggy and Bernard ahead of 1 defensive midfielder. Countinho would have been playing along side two other workhorse midfielders such as Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum etc. As I have said, in the right team and in the right games under the right tactics it might be possible but in our side right now its just madness. I have not discounted Bernard purely for his size. He isnt a natural central midfielder, he has only just arrived in this league, AND he has no physical presence. Coutinho may also have been on the smaller side but her was still 8cm taller than Bernard and I would imagine at least half a stoe heavier AND he only played centrally once he had played in the league for 2 or 3 seasons. Mahrez played as a number 10 not as a central midfielder under Puel. https://www.squawka.com/en/news/claude-puel-the-position-that-makes-mahrez-dangerous/1004134#vP5mj11QSJo6hd8h.97 I have said that Siggy is at his best when he is playing closer to other players whether that be from the left, right or through the central. With someone like Walcott you want them in some space to use their pace to create some separation or attack the opposition 1 v 1 whereas Sigurdsson needs to be in the thick of things so that he can link up with the strikers, wingers, 10's etc. I would like to see Siggy in a midfield with a holding player and a genuine central midfielder so that he is closer to the midfield two but with defensive cover and also free to break forward and able to link with the players ahead of him but that would mean no traditional number 10. You might be able to get away with Schneiderlin and Siggy together for short periods of time or in certain games but over the long term I am not convinced that they could form a winning partnership and against the big boys I think it would be a disaster. A combination of Siggy and any other fit central midfielder wouldn't work IMO and nor would Bernard and any central midfielder at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 Good post but I got lost half way through it. That was due to my own stupidity, football these days is all about playing between the lines etc? What is that about? Just play your best eleven and see who wins. I wonder in a few years if it goes back to 4-4-2 and people label it a master stroke . You obviously know your stuff bailey, I’m a bit of meh on gilfi. He’s not a Cahill or certainly an arteta. He needs to prove himself. He’s good granted but not great on his performances thus far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 22, 2018 Report Share Posted September 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, Finn balor said: Just play your best eleven and see who wins. I wonder in a few years if it goes back to 4-4-2 and people label it a master stroke . 2-3-1-2-1-1-1 is the future, you heard it here first! Seriously though I agree with you, obsession with formations has got daft. Few footballers are noted for their intellect, they mostly got good by skipping school. Keep it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Bailey klich has scored A decent amount for them! He’s an attacker alright he’s been a big part of the attack with biesla. I love biesla so I watch Leeds a bit now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 18 hours ago, Bailey said: You seem to be missing every point I am trying to put across, although maybe that is because I am not making them very well. I mentioned FIFA because lots of players like to cram all their best players into positions they dont naturally play in because they want the best, quickest or strongest players in their team. Stats are evidence, you might not like them, but they cant be dismissed out of hand because they are fact. Its then a question of how you apply the stat and whilst I do look at stats its normally to back up or dismiss what I or someone else have seen visually. From what I have seen Sigurdsson has largely played his career wide or as a number 10, which is also very similar to Bernard. Neither, as far as I am aware, have started more than half a dozen games deeper. I have seen Siggy play in central midfield twice for Iceland and both time he was poor. They have never been known as genuine central midfielders and therefore I think my comparison to FIFA players is more than fair. I might have misunderstood your 3rd paragraph. I thought you were talking about Bernard tracking back on a wing but now I think you are talking about Coutinho. The Coutinho point doesnt stand because we play nothing like Liverpool. We dont hog possession like they do and win the ball back in the opposition half like they do and we wont spend as much time in the opposition half as they do. The OP I responded to also referred to playing both Siggy and Bernard ahead of 1 defensive midfielder. Countinho would have been playing along side two other workhorse midfielders such as Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum etc. As I have said, in the right team and in the right games under the right tactics it might be possible but in our side right now its just madness. I have not discounted Bernard purely for his size. He isnt a natural central midfielder, he has only just arrived in this league, AND he has no physical presence. Coutinho may also have been on the smaller side but her was still 8cm taller than Bernard and I would imagine at least half a stoe heavier AND he only played centrally once he had played in the league for 2 or 3 seasons. Mahrez played as a number 10 not as a central midfielder under Puel. https://www.squawka.com/en/news/claude-puel-the-position-that-makes-mahrez-dangerous/1004134#vP5mj11QSJo6hd8h.97 I have said that Siggy is at his best when he is playing closer to other players whether that be from the left, right or through the central. With someone like Walcott you want them in some space to use their pace to create some separation or attack the opposition 1 v 1 whereas Sigurdsson needs to be in the thick of things so that he can link up with the strikers, wingers, 10's etc. I would like to see Siggy in a midfield with a holding player and a genuine central midfielder so that he is closer to the midfield two but with defensive cover and also free to break forward and able to link with the players ahead of him but that would mean no traditional number 10. You might be able to get away with Schneiderlin and Siggy together for short periods of time or in certain games but over the long term I am not convinced that they could form a winning partnership and against the big boys I think it would be a disaster. A combination of Siggy and any other fit central midfielder wouldn't work IMO and nor would Bernard and any central midfielder at the club. I'm not missing any points Bailey I get what your saying but completely disagree with it To "try" and keep it short as the above is far to long winded... I've not said Sigurdsson would play deeper I'm saying he has the ability to pick the ball up from deeper use his physicality and passing etc to a greater effect than what we've been served up so far simply put he has played that role and can play the role of a ball carrier he had that free reign at Swansea if you've never seen him pick the ball up from deeper and make forward runs for them your blind or have never watched them play, as you've said yourself in other threads he's better coming from a deeper position but really can't be arsed quoting it all Bernard has played central midfield many times and also as a creative central mid a position we've been lacking in for years so I'm not sure where you've got this winger stuff from All those players have similar slight statures you can't dismiss that even if he is slightly smaller Anyway I'll leave it there Sigurdsson to play the role of a ball carrying type midfielder and Bernard to be a creative central mid will it happen probably not would it be better than having two deeper mids with a non creative one trying to go forward Infront of them.... Definitely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Don’t know why but got a feeling we are gonna win today. 1-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Not happy with that team. EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Arsenal has a crap bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 OK so about to head out a couple of miles to a bar that will doubtlessly be all red apart from me. Miracle please lads, or at least can we minimise the derision/sympathy I have to endure? EFC-Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, Finn balor said: Not happy with that team. Better than last week at least. Gueye should be no were near the team though, more so after his last performance. Sev 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Welp, golden opportunity already blown by DCL. Wonder how many more of those there’ll be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarzy Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Why the fuck didn't DCL shoot??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Fuck sake just square the ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Piss poor that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Not a premier league striker. Tosun would've put that away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Got to take your chances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 We need to get a goal here when we are on top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunlopp9987 Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Theo offside, but nonetheless, DCL fluffed the finish on that cross. He’s going to cost us this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 We are playing well Swarzy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, MikeO said: Not a premier league striker. Tosun would've put that away. Tosun wouldnt have scored that because he is shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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