January Plans

[markjazzbassist]

Striker and Right Back.  Sell Niasse and Kenny to make room.

[Aidan]

Wait until the summer

[Wiggytop]

11 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Striker and Right Back.  Sell Niasse and Kenny to make room.

Can't agree, need to keep Kenny and give him more time to improve, he's better than Seamus going forward, needs to improve his defensive side.

[Bailey]

19 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Striker and Right Back.  Sell Niasse and Kenny to make room.

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

Nope and I don’t think he’d go anyway 

[markjazzbassist]

33 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

totally, i just don't think this club has the fortitude to do it.  we are "the nice guys" and i can't see it happening.  where would he go?  

[Hafnia]

44 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

A club like Celtic would maybe appeal to him. 

[Wiggytop]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

As a defender he still does a good job for us, (when he's not giving away penalties ) going forward, his delivery is poor, it's either a horrible little dink with no power or over everyone's head, something he will never change now, for me another full season rotating with Jonjoe helping him on his defensive work as he's much better than Seamus going forward.

[aaron]

15 hours ago, Bailey said:

Would anyone contemplate selling Seamus? 

I love him as a bloke and he has been great for us and I wouldnt argue with anyone who says he should be here until he retires but would anyone consider it? 

I expect he would still command quite a big fee.

a 30 old full back who cant attack, wont go for more than £10m if he went.

As previously mentioned the only team who would get his attention would probably be celtic and they cant afford a freddo (tbf that is expensive) never mind a new RB

[Finn balor]

Coleman signed a long term deal prior to his injury. He won’t be going anywhere. Nor would I want him to. He will be a proper pro who gives his all till he finishes and he knows as a club what we are about. Granted we need a right back to push him. Anybody that m and m want is good enough for me 

[Matt]

26 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

Coleman signed a long term deal prior to his injury. He won’t be going anywhere. Nor would I want him to. He will be a proper pro who gives his all till he finishes and he knows as a club what we are about. Granted we need a right back to push him. Anybody that m and m want is good enough for me 

We need a RB to replace him, so he can push the replacement, ala Baines and Digne

[EFC-Paul]

I can't see us doing much business in January maybe the odd outgoing player but I think Marco and Brands will wait for the summer window 

First priority for me is start negotiating with Barca for Gomes we simply can't let the lad slip through our fingers 

RB - Wan Bissaka would be my first choice of players I've actually seen, young English pacey and causes loads of problems offensively. He will definitely have a big future down the line and won't be at Palace long 

Moussa Wague another Barca player but for their B team, young quick and very good with the ball at his feet reminds me of Digne in some of ways could have a very bright future

Striker - Timo Werner, He won't be cheap but the lad has the lot definitely the type of next tier striker we should be aiming for 

Batshuayi I still rate him and think he'd be a great signing, pretty sure his contract runs out next season as well 

Although not an out and out striker I really rate and think Lozano would fit the type of system and style Marco wants us to play, another that won't be cheap but would be worth it imo

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

We need a RB to replace him, so he can push the replacement, ala Baines and Digne

Exactly. Replace these guys with better quality and make them the back up. No need to sell everyone who loses their place. Losing any of Seamus, Baines and Jags would be terrible for the squad. 

[markjazzbassist]

27 minutes ago, StevO said:

Exactly. Replace these guys with better quality and make them the back up. No need to sell everyone who loses their place. Losing any of Seamus, Baines and Jags would be terrible for the squad. 

i believe we lose both baines and jags this summer due to contract.  i don't think it will have much of an effect to be honest.

[Bailey]

5 hours ago, aaron said:

a 30 old full back who cant attack, wont go for more than £10m if he went.

As previously mentioned the only team who would get his attention would probably be celtic and they cant afford a freddo (tbf that is expensive) never mind a new RB

I thought he would get a bit more than that based on his reputation rather that current level of performance but then again I cant think of any similar examples going for £10mil let alone more!

46 minutes ago, StevO said:

Exactly. Replace these guys with better quality and make them the back up. No need to sell everyone who loses their place. Losing any of Seamus, Baines and Jags would be terrible for the squad. 

I do agree, these old boys bring lots more than their perormance on the pitch however I was just think about how Fergie used to do it at Utd but even he used to keep some of the core players there until they retired.

[StevO]

5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i believe we lose both baines and jags this summer due to contract.  i don't think it will have much of an effect to be honest.

Then you don’t understand the importance of team spirit, and I don’t think you understand the risk not only attached to bringing in players but also losing them.

Do not underestimate the benefit of having good professionals around the club, but having some who know they aren’t first choice and still won’t rock the boat is rare. We have that with Jags and Baines, there is no good reason to lose it. 

[StevO]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

 

I do agree, these old boys bring lots more than their perormance on the pitch however I was just think about how Fergie used to do it at Utd but even he used to keep some of the core players there until they retired.

Exactly, Fergie was so ruthless when it came to players. Beckham and Stan just two that come to mind. On the other hand his players like Giggs, Rio and Scholes, they set the example to everyone. Rooney, after he left United he said the standards around the club dropped when these players left. Not necessarily on the pitch, but the likes of people turning up on time, working harder in training, even things like fastening the top button on their shirts on the team bus. He said him and Carrick tried to keep it up but wasn’t the same influence as when there was more of them. These players are vital to a club, even more so a club like ours who has been built on tradition. 

[Matt]

5 minutes ago, StevO said:

Then you don’t understand the importance of team spirit, and I don’t think you understand the risk not only attached to bringing in players but also losing them.

Do not underestimate the benefit of having good professionals around the club, but having some who know they aren’t first choice and still won’t rock the boat is rare. We have that with Jags and Baines, there is no good reason to lose it. 

I don’t think that’s what he’s getting at. I read it as he’s looking at the “new approach”, which is definitely colder than it was before and therefore a possible reality. It’s not a question of understanding team spirit, it’s accepting the current reality. 

[StevO]

Just now, Matt said:

I don’t think that’s what he’s getting at. I read it as he’s looking at the “new approach”, which is definitely colder than it was before and therefore a possible reality. It’s not a question of understanding team spirit, it’s accepting the current reality. 

I don’t see that new approach though Matt. I saw it with Koeman, but I don’t see us just buying 24 players over two years and dropping the old guard. Can you really see the club letting two players like that go in the same year? 

For me it would be more detrimental than when we brought in any player we could get our hands on for at least £25m, it just pulled the squad to pieces. We’ve now brought in Brands who has a sense about how to run a football club, I don’t think he would make those mistakes. 

[Matt]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

I don’t see that new approach though Matt. I saw it with Koeman, but I don’t see us just buying 24 players over two years and dropping the old guard. Can you really see the club letting two players like that go in the same year? 

For me it would be more detrimental than when we brought in any player we could get our hands on for at least £25m, it just pulled the squad to pieces. We’ve now brought in Brands who has a sense about how to run a football club, I don’t think he would make those mistakes. 

I saw Hibbert and Osman let go unceremoniously under Moshiri, 2 loyal and influential figures for a decade. So yeah, I see the concern. 

I don’t think it will happen this time though. Hopefully Moshiri learnt from his mistake. But I do understand the concern 

[StevO]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

I saw Hibbert and Osman let go unceremoniously under Moshiri, 2 loyal and influential figures for a decade. So yeah, I see the concern. 

I don’t think it will happen this time though. Hopefully Moshiri learnt from his mistake. But I do understand the concern 

I thought the same when them two went, I think the club learnt their lesson, or I hope so. 

I don’t think Mark does have that same concern, which is my point. He said he doesn’t think it’ll have much effect. We all know the effect it had on the squad last time, they didn’t show it on the pitch but everyone knows how much it upset the other lads in the team, ironically the same lads we are discussing now. 

[MC11]

I think the spine is pretty solid. 

For me the positions I’d be looking at improving would be RB, RM & ST although we’re not majorly weak in any position.

[Haiku]

1. First choice striker.

2. Competition for Coleman.

3. Cover for Gana.

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

I thought the same when them two went, I think the club learnt their lesson, or I hope so. 

I don’t think Mark does have that same concern, which is my point. He said he doesn’t think it’ll have much effect. We all know the effect it had on the squad last time, they didn’t show it on the pitch but everyone knows how much it upset the other lads in the team, ironically the same lads we are discussing now. 

i know exactly what you are saying and i agree with you, but i don't agree on who those players are.  the old guard is not jags and baines as they are well beyond the team spirit and being a scholes and keeping the players in line.  jags moreso than baines.  the old guard is now players like coleman and gylfi.  they are the 30+ veterans who show with hard work and help to keep the guys in line, coincidently (not really) they are the captains usually.  they are the veterans and Marco's leaders on and off the pitch.  

 

i could see a baines 1 or 2 year deal because he's 3 years younger than jags, but jags is 36 there would be no reason (for me) to re-sign him.

[Matt]

1 minute ago, markjazzbassist said:

i know exactly what you are saying and i agree with you, but i don't agree on who those players are.  the old guard is not jags and baines as they are well beyond the team spirit and being a scholes and keeping the players in line.  jags moreso than baines.  the old guard is now players like coleman and gylfi.  they are the 30+ veterans who show with hard work and help to keep the guys in line, coincidently (not really) they are the captains usually.  they are the veterans and Marco's leaders on and off the pitch.  

 

i could see a baines 1 or 2 year deal because he's 3 years younger than jags, but jags is 36 there would be no reason (for me) to re-sign him.

That post says to me you don’t get it at all. Old guard is a phrase for long term servants, not necessarily on the field. Gylfi hasn’t been anywhere near long enough, though I don’t doubt his professionalism. Jags, Baines and Coleman are the last of the loyal players, and that’s why they’re valuable 

[markjazzbassist]

6 hours ago, Matt said:

That post says to me you don’t get it at all. Old guard is a phrase for long term servants, not necessarily on the field. Gylfi hasn’t been anywhere near long enough, though I don’t doubt his professionalism. Jags, Baines and Coleman are the last of the loyal players, and that’s why they’re valuable 

i get it completely, it doesn't take a guy who's been at the club for a long time to be the old guard.  gylfi has proven on and off the pitch for years in this league he is a top player and professional.  the others respect that, you don't need to be an academy boy to show that.  that's where i think this whole hero worship goes south, no need for jags and baines to stay on to espouse the values of everton, we have a manager and players he likes and respects to do that.  not to mention the things the manager wants for team spirit and the values he cherishes change from manager to manager.  if we still had moyes then sure keep hibbo and distin and jags and baines around.  but 4 managers later and they don't know what marco wants anymore than Digne who was just signed.  Juve, PSG, dortmund, barca all jettison their aging players and they don't seem to lack team spirit and they keep winning.  maybe we should take a page from there book, maybe your definition of old guard is what's holding us back.

[Matt]

Maybe it’s an example of lost in translation between the two languages. 

[Finn balor]

Just sign Gomes please. That’ll do me 

[StevO]

9 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

i get it completely, it doesn't take a guy who's been at the club for a long time to be the old guard.  gylfi has proven on and off the pitch for years in this league he is a top player and professional.  the others respect that, you don't need to be an academy boy to show that.  that's where i think this whole hero worship goes south, no need for jags and baines to stay on to espouse the values of everton, we have a manager and players he likes and respects to do that.  not to mention the things the manager wants for team spirit and the values he cherishes change from manager to manager.  if we still had moyes then sure keep hibbo and distin and jags and baines around.  but 4 managers later and they don't know what marco wants anymore than Digne who was just signed.  Juve, PSG, dortmund, barca all jettison their aging players and they don't seem to lack team spirit and they keep winning.  maybe we should take a page from there book, maybe your definition of old guard is what's holding us back.

Yeah, you really don’t get it. It’s not about old pros, it’s not about experience in the league. It’s not about what Marco wants. You either get it or you don’t, and you don’t. 

[markjazzbassist]

Haha ok, you can’t put it into words, and when you do and it’s refuted it’s the old you get it or don’t.