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markjazzbassist

Brighton (Away) Saturday December 29th

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3 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Palf get a fookin grip. You've polluted this site with anti gana bollocks for months and he's likely off to one of the best sides in Europe.

 

Walcott has stunk the gaff out today. Barely touched the ball and when he has he's been piss poor. Piss poor. 

He's having a poor game he's not hiding and he's not shit.

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4 minutes ago, nogs said:

When was the last time we kept a clean sheet? Defence is shite and we'll finish midtable until Silva sorts it out

Saturday 24th November against Cardiff, I believe.

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It's the level of inconsistency that is amazing.... Mina was awful  and I don't think he should be in the team at the moment Walcott was very very poor. I still am not seeing bernards performance matching the hype. The real problem for me is we need to give one of the strikers a run of games ans stop playing charly up there. He changes the personell too much. Why didn't Gylfi start. Also not sure gueye is the player they say he is. Headless chicken trying to do too much when you see fernandinho for city he doesn't try and be creative he just plays the ball simple why can't gana do that.

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5 at the back is shite, has only worked against a team that also played 5.

Our right side has been incredibly poor.  If Kenny's not good enough, we need another RB.  Walcott doesn't deserve to start again, he's had his opportunities this year.  Needs to be forced to fight his way back from the bench (hopefully Lookman's fit).

 

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3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

A lot of results have gone against us today, but we should be beating teams like Brighton, Silva got it wrong today with his formation starting 11 and the bench.

He's getting it wrong to often for my liking. Worrying. 

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8 minutes ago, Palfy said:

He's having a poor game he's not hiding and he's not shit.

He rarely plays well.  But you've nailed your colours to the mast so therefore you will look for any positive.

He's a cowardly player.  Never seen him in first half,  his close control and dribble attempts is a lottery.  Defensively a waste of time... goes through the motions. 

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I think where I am with SIlva at the moment is he needs to learn from the mistakes and make changes based on that. He says every interview he picks a team based on his plan for the game but his formations and players in the formation don't seem to talk to that. he seems to make changes for the sake. dropping richy last game and then gylfi this doesn't make sense. I also agree dcl has to start against those cbs of brighton.

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2 minutes ago, hafnia said:

He rarely plays well.  But you've nailed your colours to the mast so therefore you will look for any positive.

He's a cowardly player.  Never seen him in first half,  his close control and dribble attempts is a lottery.  Defensively a waste of time... goes through the motions. 

Silva must be shit then in your eyes because he constantly picks.

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1 minute ago, pete0 said:

Really don't understand the Walcott hate. He's got Gana and Coleman supplying him the ball compared to Gomes and Digne supporting the left side. 

Not sure why you label it hate he had a poor game and his play even before us was very in and out. He has a good game 1 in 3 and I think the only thing keeping him in the team is lack of a good replacement. I am not sure lookman is any different he has a good game in 3. Neither pulls up trees when they are on they don't scare teams.

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1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Silva must be shit then in your eyes because he constantly picks.

Like he does Gana?

I dont attach myself too closely to players or managers but if Silva doesn't address this right hand side them I question his credentials.

Walcott gave one of the worst performances I've seen.... yet he took off 3 players before him.... shocking. Absolutely shocking. 

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Just now, hafnia said:

Like he does Gana?

I dont attach myself too closely to players or managers but if Silva doesn't address this right hand side them I question his credentials.

Walcott gave one of the worst performances I've seen.... yet he took off 3 players before him.... shocking. Absolutely shocking. 

Yup.

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I think we need to see where we are at the end of the season silva has improved performance and how we look going forward but results are not much better than last season. I prefer his style of football obvs but we need to see progression in our learning and see the team playing attaching with results to match.

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4 minutes ago, memmaclub2 said:

Not sure why you label it hate he had a poor game and his play even before us was very in and out. He has a good game 1 in 3 and I think the only thing keeping him in the team is lack of a good replacement. I am not sure lookman is any different he has a good game in 3. Neither pulls up trees when they are on they don't scare teams.

Look at the critics for any pass Walcott doesn't make compared to anyone else. Scapegoating him. 

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I expected this type of performance would come after Burnley, where the game script went massively in our favour and made us look good (from the highlights). 

As I said based on what I saw, we had the same problems we had today and failed to create a lot of good chances. That was the same story today. I think we had a couple of half chances but nothing that stood out. I have never liked 5 at the back and I never will when it fails to deliver like it did today. They looked like they could score (albeit from not many chances) and we didnt create as much as we should. I was expected us to be able to pin them in a lot more than we did so the 5 didnt even help us control the game. 

That being said, we didnt create much when we went to the 4 but from that point we were always chasing the game and Brighton could sit in. 

The strange thing is you look across this team, and also the team generally, and I cant really put my finger on why things aren't working out better. You can argue the toss over Coleman / Walcott but its not like this is Martina we are talking about. They would be first choice for most PL sides. I dont like the make up of the midfield, I think we generally lose too many midfield battles but even then we have enough quality to score more goals and create more chances than we are. 

I suppose this is just another day in the life of an Everton fan.

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10 minutes ago, memmaclub2 said:

Not sure why you label it hate he had a poor game and his play even before us was very in and out. He has a good game 1 in 3 and I think the only thing keeping him in the team is lack of a good replacement. I am not sure lookman is any different he has a good game in 3. Neither pulls up trees when they are on they don't scare teams.

How would you know?!? I’ve barely seen Lookman get a start let alone a run of games to say he’s only a 1 in 3 player. IMO he should be given a chance of a run in the team sooner rather than later. 

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1 minute ago, Bailey said:

I expected this type of performance would come after Burnley, where the game script went massively in our favour and made us look good (from the highlights). 

As I said based on what I saw, we had the same problems we had today and failed to create a lot of good chances. That was the same story today. I think we had a couple of half chances but nothing that stood out. I have never liked 5 at the back and I never will when it fails to deliver like it did today. They looked like they could score (albeit from not many chances) and we didnt create as much as we should. I was expected us to be able to pin them in a lot more than we did so the 5 didnt even help us control the game. 

That being said, we didnt create much when we went to the 4 but from that point we were always chasing the game and Brighton could sit in. 

The strange thing is you look across this team, and also the team generally, and I cant really put my finger on why things aren't working out better. You can argue the toss over Coleman / Walcott but its not like this is Martina we are talking about. They would be first choice for most PL sides. I dont like the make up of the midfield, I think we generally lose too many midfield battles but even then we have enough quality to score more goals and create more chances than we are. 

I suppose this is just another day in the life of an Everton fan.

Gana, Coleman and Sigurdssen are the are the cogs that don't suit the system for me. To a lesser extent Richarlison when played up top.

The major issue in the midfield is Gana, you'll never control the midfield with him as he's not good enough. He's very limited and is detrimental to the high tempo football the manager wants to play. Once McCarthy comes in there'll be a huge difference. People didn't realise how good McCarthy is until he got injured and the team as a whole dipped, Gana has the opposite effect when he's in there the team as a whole drops as we have no control over the game with him on the pitch. 

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Mods

possible to step in? Even the match day thread is being turned into a Gana watch. 

Just flicked through most of this as it’s going down the same route.

Please guys... watch Everton and not just try to prove a point, it’s getting boring.

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12 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Mods

possible to step in? Even the match day thread is being turned into a Gana watch. 

Not really and no need I don't think, people having their say on the game and the thread will very soon become a "dead" one and all the weirdness will revert to its rightful place.

All match day threads are ephemeral:).

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Too much tinkering. No real reason for it... I don't think Silva has the players he wants yet. 

None the less Coleman, Walcott  and Richarlison as a striker is not the answer.... so don't do It! 

 

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45 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Really don't understand the Walcott hate. He's got Gana and Coleman supplying him the ball compared to Gomes and Digne supporting the left side. 

Good players don't rely on better players supplying them. He is a one in five player, chances he converts and games he performs in. Another expensive mistake. 

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28 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Gana, Coleman and Sigurdssen are the are the cogs that don't suit the system for me. To a lesser extent Richarlison when played up top.

The major issue in the midfield is Gana, you'll never control the midfield with him as he's not good enough. He's very limited and is detrimental to the high tempo football the manager wants to play. Once McCarthy comes in there'll be a huge difference. People didn't realise how good McCarthy is until he got injured and the team as a whole dipped, Gana has the opposite effect when he's in there the team as a whole drops as we have no control over the game with him on the pitch. 

But we were poor in midfield with Gana out, so how can you pin all the blame on him? Gomes was awful against Spurs but everyone is blowing smoke out his arse, blaming one player for weaknesses all over the squad is ignoring the real issues. 

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I was never a fan of Walcott at Arsenal, thought he started off quite well here but he has reverted back to form. Most defenders know how to play against him. Stand off him and not allow his pace to get past them. His end product is really poor for a player of his experience 

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You have to take your chances in games when it’s tight. I say it all the time, it’s the difference between the top teams. This season will be one of ups and downs. The next two windows will be the biggie and ready to go next season 

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Got exactly what we deserved from that performance. Ville football from us. No passion, no control, no quality. Shocking from every single starter.

 

I have to think Gomes is carrying a knock because he was nowhere near the pace in a very slow game.

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29 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Not really and no need I don't think, people having their say on the game and the thread will very soon become a "dead" one and all the weirdness will revert to its rightful place.

All match day threads are ephemeral:).

Accepted... and good point.

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2 hours ago, Palfy said:

You watching the same game best player out there has been Bernard.

Bernard was attrocious. Won nothing, lost the ball consistently, far too weak. He put in two good crosses and was Otherwise a complete waste of space.

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3 minutes ago, chicagoblue said:

Bernard was attrocious. Won nothing, lost the ball consistently, far too weak. He put in two good crosses and was Otherwise a complete waste of space.

That's strange your MotM has no votes I at least thought I'd see yourself vote for him and Bernard has 3.

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Not going to pretend I know the winning formula or tactics/strategy to use, cause I don't. But one thing I have noticed in the premiership, and international football in recent years is that a manager who doesen't know his starting 11, and tinkers with his team too much will have difficulties.

Sometimes as the adage goes more is lost by indecision, than the wrong decision. Find out what the starting 11 is on the training pitch, and stick with it, at least for a while. My gut feeling is that teams need to get used to playing together as a team, and feel settled, rather than constant upheaval, be it with personnel changes, or formation. 

It wasn't all bad today. I think it hurts more cause we needed to get a run going, and build some confidence. First half we were the dominant team, game should have been killed off. Very impressed with bernard.

For me I don't care about this season. I just want the manager to get settled in, and focus on creating cohesion, and building something in the manner Klop has with Liverpool. My overall impression of this team presently, and alot of other premiership teams these days, is that it's a collection of individuals rather than a team working together.

Need some real leaders in there as well. A blue steven Gerard would be nice.

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22 minutes ago, Palfy said:

That's strange your MotM has no votes I at least thought I'd see yourself vote for him and Bernard has 3.

Vote for who? They were all terrible for me. Maybe Keane or Zouma didn't do much wrong.

 

Cannot understand anyone saying Bernard was our Motm, he was so wasteful and ineffective.

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3 minutes ago, chicagoblue said:

Vote for who? They were all terrible for me. Maybe Keane or Zouma didn't do much wrong.

 

Cannot understand anyone saying Bernard was our Motm, he was so wasteful and ineffective.

Sorry mistaken identity I thought it was you who said in game time Gana was probably man of the match, what made me think that was you tagged on to a post I was having with someone else😃

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Marco silva needs time and we should give him a number of seasons unless we go months with out playing well.  But as an Everton fan I can't see we have recovered since moyes left. We were consistent top 6 with him now we are consistent top 8. Bobby M's first season for me should have bought him more time (In hindsight). I want silva to suceeed but it's about progression. We can't turn up every other match we have to get a level of consistency.

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3 hours ago, nogs said:

Good players don't rely on better players supplying them. He is a one in five player, chances he converts and games he performs in. Another expensive mistake. 

His stats say otherwise. Lookman come in for one game and was miles behind what Walcott offers. How many wingers would do well in out right hand side with Coleman and Gana passing to them? 

3 hours ago, nogs said:

But we were poor in midfield with Gana out, so how can you pin all the blame on him? Gomes was awful against Spurs but everyone is blowing smoke out his arse, blaming one player for weaknesses all over the squad is ignoring the real issues. 

Best the midfield played was when he was in Africa other than that I can't think of when he's missed more than three. Even looking at the Spurs game we wasn't rinsed through the middle like we are with Gana being out of position every game. 

Before he Gana came here the midfield of Barry and McCarthy was solid, since he's come/McCarthy got injured it's been a shambles. 

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14 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Even looking at the Spurs game we wasn't rinsed through the middle like we are with Gana being out of position every game. 

Interesting, from where I was sat watching that game Spurs rinsed us through the middle over and over again, we gave them acres to play in front of goal and no one bothered picking up runners. It was the definition of shambolic. 

What I don't get about your relentless sagging off Gana is a) who are you trying to convince? and b) do you really think we will become a better team just be removing him from the equation? Because that's what it comes across as, you have no other insight except, Gana is shit. And fair enough, for what it's worth I still don't think Keane is anywhere near good enough, he is slow and is caught out of position way too often. But what's the point of banging on about it? I also think Walcott is the exact opposite of the type of player we should be aiming to advance with as a club - a big name, big salary yesterdays man who is on the way down in his career, not on the way up. I watch him and I see a player who should be at Fulham or Crystal Palace, not a team clinging onto dreams of breaking the top 6. And the same applies to far too many of our squad. 

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15 minutes ago, nogs said:

Interesting, from where I was sat watching that game Spurs rinsed us through the middle over and over again, we gave them acres to play in front of goal and no one bothered picking up runners. It was the definition of shambolic. 

What I don't get about your relentless sagging off Gana is a) who are you trying to convince? and b) do you really think we will become a better team just be removing him from the equation? Because that's what it comes across as, you have no other insight except, Gana is shit. And fair enough, for what it's worth I still don't think Keane is anywhere near good enough, he is slow and is caught out of position way too often. But what's the point of banging on about it? I also think Walcott is the exact opposite of the type of player we should be aiming to advance with as a club - a big name, big salary yesterdays man who is on the way down in his career, not on the way up. I watch him and I see a player who should be at Fulham or Crystal Palace, not a team clinging onto dreams of breaking the top 6. And the same applies to far too many of our squad. 

Shambolic was Pickford and Zouma for the first and likewise Coleman for the second. How would Gana have stopped them? Neither were through the middle. 

In short I'll answer with a couple of questions. Was the midfield better with Barry/McCarthy? Who were the last midfield we had that gave away as many chances through the middle? Is there a centre mid in the league worse at passing? 

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5 hours ago, pete0 said:

Gana, Coleman and Sigurdssen are the are the cogs that don't suit the system for me. To a lesser extent Richarlison when played up top.

The major issue in the midfield is Gana, you'll never control the midfield with him as he's not good enough. He's very limited and is detrimental to the high tempo football the manager wants to play. Once McCarthy comes in there'll be a huge difference. People didn't realise how good McCarthy is until he got injured and the team as a whole dipped, Gana has the opposite effect when he's in there the team as a whole drops as we have no control over the game with him on the pitch. 

But all 3 players have been involved in us dominating teams earlier in the season. We might not have scored the goals we should have but we controlled games and kept it relatively tight (set pieces aside). 

I do largely agree with you in that the 3 players mentioned aren't a perfect fit but they aren't square pegs for round holes either. In an ideal world we want a more rounded defensive midfielder than Gana, a more athletic attacking midfielder than Siggy and a Coleman of 5 years ago but that isnt the difference between 6th and 10th. 

 

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3 hours ago, memmaclub2 said:

Marco silva needs time and we should give him a number of seasons unless we go months with out playing well.  But as an Everton fan I can't see we have recovered since moyes left. We were consistent top 6 with him now we are consistent top 8. Bobby M's first season for me should have bought him more time (In hindsight). I want silva to suceeed but it's about progression. We can't turn up every other match we have to get a level of consistency. 

Only drama is that RM lost the dressing room with his stubborn ways. There is no coming back from that.

No doubt that he is a top manager and would have done really well if Mosh would have come in during his first season.

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Shambolic was Pickford and Zouma for the first and likewise Coleman for the second. How would Gana have stopped them? Neither were through the middle. 

In short I'll answer with a couple of questions. Was the midfield better with Barry/McCarthy? Who were the last midfield we had that gave away as many chances through the middle? Is there a centre mid in the league worse at passing? 

The defence was shit against Spurs. I don't think we're nearly good enough at the back. But we were also overrun in midfield. Gana wasn't playing in that game, so that can't be his fault. And when he does play, he doesn't play on his own. Other players are guilty of being poor in possession and conceding space too easily. 

All I'm saying is let's be fair. Gana is nowhere near the sum of our shortcomings. 

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3 hours ago, nogs said:

The defence was shit against Spurs. I don't think we're nearly good enough at the back. But we were also overrun in midfield. Gana wasn't playing in that game, so that can't be his fault. And when he does play, he doesn't play on his own. Other players are guilty of being poor in possession and conceding space too easily. 

All I'm saying is let's be fair. Gana is nowhere near the sum of our shortcomings. 

If it's not Gana who is /are then? 

Looking at the players we've had in the last few years we've improved in every position bar RB, CM, AM, ST. 

Coleman has lost a yard but I wouldn't blame him for the overall team. He's limited but doing a job still defensively just not going forward on the overlap. Definitely one to be looking to replace in the near future but not the root of the problem. 

It's harsh to say Sigurdssen isn'tt as good as Cahill but he lacks that battle and for the system we play Cahill would be much better suited. Sigurdssen is the type of player you build a team round his strengths, unfortunately those strengths aren't best suited to how the manager sets us up. 

DCL and Richarlison are no Lukaku but both hold the ball up better than Lukaku so you couldn't blame either. 

Barry, Fellaini, Arteta, Carsley all helped us tick. Gana simply doesn't come close to filling any of their boots. The noticeable difference is the last 2 seasons, more so last year after Barry left. The one constant in midfield during that period is Gana. 

Some qualities in midfield go unnoticed, people didn't appreciate Lucas at the shite until he missed a few games. Unfortunately for us Gana is the opposite. A lot of people don't notice how shite he is yet but when he went off to the ACON we won 3 and drew 1 and played some much better football. 

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2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

If it's not Gana who is /are then? 

Looking at the players we've had in the last few years we've improved in every position bar RB, CM, AM, ST. 

Coleman has lost a yard but I wouldn't blame him for the overall team. He's limited but doing a job still defensively just not going forward on the overlap. Definitely one to be looking to replace in the near future but not the root of the problem. 

It's harsh to say Sigurdssen isn'ttt as good as Cahill but he lacks that battle and for the system we play Cahill would be much better suited. Sigurdssen is the type of player you build a team round his strengths, unfortunately those strengths aren't best suited to how the manager sets us up. 

DCL and Richarlison are no Lukaku but both hold the ball up better than Lukaku so you couldn't blame either. 

Barry, Fellaini, Arteta, Carsley all helped us tick. Gana simply doesn't come close to filling any of their boots. The noticeable difference is the last 2 seasons, more so last year after Barry left. The one constant in midfield during that period is Gana. 

Some qualities in midfield go unnoticed, people didn't appreciate Lucas at the shite until he missed a few games. Unfortunately for us Gana is the opposite. A lot of people don't notice how shite he is yet but when he went off to the ACON we won 3 and drew 1 and played some much better football. 

Come off it mate. We get it. You don't like Gana.

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7 minutes ago, sibdane said:

Come off it mate. We get it. You don't like Gana.

So why do we not control the midfield as well as we used to? We've had 3 managers plus Unsworth's short stint so it's not the tactics/managers fault every week. It's time to look at the players. Which ones need addressing? 

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8 minutes ago, pete0 said:

So why do we not control the midfield as well as we used to? We've had 3 managers plus Unsworth's short stint so it's not the tactics/managers fault every week. It's time to look at the players. Which ones need addressing? 

You're ignoring the fact that EVERY manager has chosen Gana. Why is that? 

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55 minutes ago, sibdane said:

You're ignoring the fact that EVERY manager has chosen Gana. Why is that? 

McCarthy is injured and Koeman got rid of Barry too early, the others haven't had the opportunity to use them two. Alladyce wanted a replacement in N'Zonzi and Silva wanted someone in as well. I'd be very surprised if Gana is still in the eleven after next summer. 

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