MikeO Posted April 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 3 hours ago, StevO said: I think the next four games are winnable, we could finish with a real statement. Do we really want 7th and a probable Europa place and an early start to the season again though? I'm conflicted, I've always wanted Europe but that last place is becoming a poisoned chalice; look at what happened to us last time and to Burnley this season. Real tough call but at the same time I hope we win every game we have left even though that would 99.9% mean 7th. Gwlad and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 I was saying the exact same thing to youngest son (Palace supporter) yesterday. Not convinced that qualifying for Europa and starting early is in our best interests now. Have a great pre-season with this first team squad and a few additions maybe and we'll have an advantage I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 50 minutes ago, MikeO said: Do we really want 7th and a probable Europa place and an early start to the season again though? I'm conflicted, I've always wanted Europe but that last place is becoming a poisoned chalice; look at what happened to us last time and to Burnley this season. Real tough call but at the same time I hope we win every game we have left even though that would 99.9% mean 7th. i am one of the few that enjoys europa league and yet i agree with you. 5th place europa is the only worthwhile one, the others ruin your season. i'd rather us focus on getting top 5 and winning a cup next year than going europa in the 1st qualifying round playing slogrobnansk in latvia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 But on the flip side, we need to grow and learn how to ha doe these tournaments. Man City qualify every year, yet compete for the top every year also. So do galatasary and various other teams throughout Europe. We need to learn and grow. Playing in Europe is a harsh, but needful lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 35 minutes ago, Shukes said: But on the flip side, we need to grow and learn how to ha doe these tournaments. Man City qualify every year, yet compete for the top every year also. So do galatasary and various other teams throughout Europe. We need to learn and grow. Playing in Europe is a harsh, but needful lesson. they qualify at the group stage. not the 1st qualifying stage where you have to win 3 matches to even get to the group stage. completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 It's only positive to play in LE. We have big squad so I'm not bothered if we play our out of form players for this competition. I'm not bothered if we don't get through the group stage either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 I like watching us play twice a week though. Well I do if we play like we have done lately StevO and Btay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 Excited to see how we finish the season. 3 clean sheets on the run with different pairings each game and not 1 player playing all 3 - massive sign of how things have clicked and tactics are clear. Europa - I’ll take it in any which way it comes. Round 1 qualifying becomes pre season, we got nothing from beating some Austrian team 22-0 or what ever it was. We have enough players and quality to get through those stages while resting a few key players who have had big seasons. Wouldnt want it on a World Cup year though to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 13 hours ago, MikeO said: Do we really want 7th and a probable Europa place and an early start to the season again though? I'm conflicted, I've always wanted Europe but that last place is becoming a poisoned chalice; look at what happened to us last time and to Burnley this season. Real tough call but at the same time I hope we win every game we have left even though that would 99.9% mean 7th. Yes. If nothing more than the extra cash and lure of European football for potential transfers. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romey 1878 Posted April 9, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 Just win as many games as we can and we'll get what we deserve and go from there. Europe or not, lets just end the season on a high. MikeO, StevO, Matt and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 Seems relevant to the current discussion https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/surprising-financial-rewards-everton-chasing-16096733 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 18 hours ago, MikeO said: Do we really want 7th and a probable Europa place and an early start to the season again though? I'm conflicted, I've always wanted Europe but that last place is becoming a poisoned chalice; look at what happened to us last time and to Burnley this season. Real tough call but at the same time I hope we win every game we have left even though that would 99.9% mean 7th. If the club has a single ounce of ambition then the answer is 100% yes. With the standard of opposition you tend to get in the early qualifiers we could just treat them as preseason friendlies and utilise the kids The Europa League brings in extra revenue, gets our name out there and attracts players, not to mention it’s a realistic way of qualifying for the Champions League European away days are superb experiences as are European nights under the lights at Goodison , personally I can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t want that Romey 1878, Newty82, StevO and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 46 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: If the club has a single ounce of ambition then the answer is 100% yes. With the standard of opposition you tend to get in the early qualifiers we could just treat them as preseason friendlies and utilise the kids The Europa League brings in extra revenue, gets our name out there and attracts players, not to mention it’s a realistic way of qualifying for the Champions League European away days are superb experiences as are European nights under the lights at Goodison , personally I can’t understand why anyone wouldn’t want that not a single team from the group stages has won the europa league, and no one ever has been to the final from a qualifying stage. the europa league winners are always CL dropouts, which is why it's not worth it because by that time you'd have played so many matches you're dead, the CL dropouts come in play a couple and it's the final. it is not a realistic way to CL, not playing in Europa and focusing on the league is the realistic way to do it in my opinion. They need to remove the CL teams from Europa in my opinion to make it a viable 2nd class tourney. That way true minnows could actually win it and make the CL which should be that tourney's goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: not a single team from the group stages has won the europa league, and no one ever has been to the final from a qualifying stage. the europa league winners are always CL dropouts, which is why it's not worth it because by that time you'd have played so many matches you're dead, the CL dropouts come in play a couple and it's the final. it is not a realistic way to CL, not playing in Europa and focusing on the league is the realistic way to do it in my opinion. They need to remove the CL teams from Europa in my opinion to make it a viable 2nd class tourney. That way true minnows could actually win it and make the CL which should be that tourney's goal. Didn’t Man United do precisely that in 2016/17 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 46 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: Didn’t Man United do precisely that in 2016/17 ? sorry 1 team in the history of the comp has done this. also note, the 12m wil would gain by playing in europa would be covered and then some by simply moving up 1 spot in the table. Prem money is more than Europa. If you are worried about money league position is the best place to get that, not Europa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: sorry 1 team in the history of the comp has done this. also note, the 12m wil would gain by playing in europa would be covered and then some by simply moving up 1 spot in the table. Prem money is more than Europa. If you are worried about money league position is the best place to get that, not Europa. I think you will find that The Shite also got to the final after coming through the group stages the year before, so it’s not quite the lost cause you are making it out to be Money is not my primary motivation, winnng trophies is and you don’t get one in the league unless you are champions, but what the extra money ( we still get the money from the Premiership) does do is help us achieve a greater wage budget so we can go after better quality players whilst keeping in tolerance of FFP. In short playing in Europe is an essential step in developing the club Vranny and Newty82 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: I think you will find that The Shite also got to the final after coming through the group stages the year before, so it’s not quite the lost cause you are making it out to be Money is not my primary motivation, winnng trophies is and you don’t get one in the league unless you are champions, but what the extra money ( we still get the money from the Premiership) does do is help us achieve a greater wage budget so we can go after better quality players whilst keeping in tolerance of FFP. In short playing in Europe is an essential step in developing the club no one has ever made it from the qualifying dunc, shite came from the CL dropout, easiest route to the cup. winning trophies? league cup and FA cup are there for the taking, that's what i want. agree to disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: no one has ever made it from the qualifying dunc, shite came from the CL dropout, easiest route to the cup. winning trophies? league cup and FA cup are there for the taking, that's what i want. agree to disagree We’ve already established that is not true, United won it in 2016/17 and The Shite got to the final the year before after winning Group B I agree about the domestic cups, but how many teams outside the Sky 6 have won the FA Cup in recent history? As for the league cup we never take it seriously so we have no chance of winning that anyway I want us to win every game and be as successful as possible therefore the more competitions we are in the more chance we have of ending our trophy drought so I just struggle to understand why any Evertonian would think differently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: sorry 1 team in the history of the comp has done this. also note, the 12m wil would gain by playing in europa would be covered and then some by simply moving up 1 spot in the table. Prem money is more than Europa. If you are worried about money league position is the best place to get that, not Europa. The differential between prize money per placing last season was less that £2m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 Wolves are in pole position though with a game in hand and a reasonable run-in apart from Liverpool away on the final day. They do have to play Arsenal at home as well but at the moment I think them and us are the 3rd and 4th best teams in the league so we need them to slip up. Watford also have a game in hand and a pretty easy run-in but they'll hopefully have one eye on the cup final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 regardless of my errors (apologies) the liklihood of winning Europa is low, from a qualifying round its currently nil. Mike you're not factoring in TV money as well, that's split per table as well. So it's a lot more than 2m which proves my point simply doing better in the league makes up for europe. you could miss 2 years of europe and get CL 4th place spot and you'd still be net positive over that time. id rather do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 It’s called having ambition lads. Newty82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 29 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: regardless of my errors (apologies) the liklihood of winning Europa is low, from a qualifying round its currently nil. Mike you're not factoring in TV money as well, that's split per table as well. So it's a lot more than 2m which proves my point simply doing better in the league makes up for europe. you could miss 2 years of europe and get CL 4th place spot and you'd still be net positive over that time. id rather do that. No it isn'tt it's dependent entirely on how many games you play are televised, your position in the table is irrelevant. Eg we got £22.5m last season due to 19 televised matches; Burnley (who finished above us) earned £12.3 from 7 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 100% should try to qualify for Europe. There are many reasons: extra income (a good run could net 15+ million), prestige, experience (if we qualify to CL one day it would be useful to have experience with European games before that)... Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 I can’t 23 hours ago, MikeO said: Do we really want 7th and a probable Europa place and an early start to the season again though? I'm conflicted, I've always wanted Europe but that last place is becoming a poisoned chalice; look at what happened to us last time and to Burnley this season. Real tough call but at the same time I hope we win every game we have left even though that would 99.9% mean 7th. Yes I think we do don’t we want to progress even if it means doing it the hard way, maybe it’s just me but I want to be in Europe and see us raise our profile, we cannot keep living off of past glories, no silver ware since 96 won’t change if we don’t complete at every opportunity. Also it generates income with the possibility of more revenue from televised games, especially if we have more Sunday league games to play as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted April 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Makis said: 100% should try to qualify for Europe. There are many reasons: extra income (a good run could net 15+ million), prestige, experience (if we qualify to CL one day it would be useful to have experience with European games before that)... I do agree that we should try to finish as high as we can in the table, no way would I ever suggest we should throw a game to avoid it; but our most recent experience of playing in Europe was anything but useful, unless we wanted to learn how to be humiliated. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 lastly, i much prefer saturday games, the sunday/monday ones i'm not usually able to watch, so yes i'm being partly selfish here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, MikeO said: I do agree that we should try to finish as high as we can in the table, no way would I ever suggest we should throw a game to avoid it; but our most recent experience of playing in Europe was anything but useful, unless we wanted to learn how to be humiliated. Or the last outing is added motivation for doing better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 2 hours ago, markjazzbassist said: regardless of my errors (apologies) the liklihood of winning Europa is low, from a qualifying round its currently nil. Mike you're not factoring in TV money as well, that's split per table as well. So it's a lot more than 2m which proves my point simply doing better in the league makes up for europe. you could miss 2 years of europe and get CL 4th place spot and you'd still be net positive over that time. id rather do that. That outlook is fine if your just in it for the money but as I said my primary motivation is being successful and winning trophies. I would much rather have some silverware to show off than finishing fourth Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted April 9, 2019 Report Share Posted April 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: That outlook is fine if your just in it for the money but as I said my primary motivation is being successful and winning trophies. I would much rather have some silverware to show off than finishing fourth there is more chance to win the league or fa cup than getting 7th and trying to win the europa. teams in our position win the league or fa cup all the time, no one has won the europa from a qualifying round. i am about trophies as well, i just don't care about europa anymore (i used to love it) because i think the domestic competitions are more important for us at this point. win one of those break the duck and then move onto trying to get a CL spot. Europa derails the season, and matches in Azjerbaijan are not increasing our credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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