Marco Silva

[StevO]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

What have we done differently in the Fulham and Palace games compared to the ones we won? As far as I can see you agree that doing the same thing every week is foolish, so I'd assume you'd be in agreement with me that Silva isn'tttt doing enough. 

The differences will be where we have looked to exploit. We played wide against Palace as apposed to playing through the middle against United and Arsenal. Watching on TV I’ll never be able to see the tactical differences, only a small section of the pitch at a time  

As far as you can see we have done the same, as far as you can see. If you had the chance to ask Marco what was done differently there will have been various things. But you aren’t looking at the game as a tactical analyst would, or as a scout would, or as a coach would. You just look at it and assume it’s the same. 

Next time you see Coleman going inside the full back rather than around the outside, you can either assume we still play the same or see that a weakness has been identified and exploited. 

We don’t play the same every week, we start with a 433 formation at the base of the tactics, but you or I will never know all of the different tactic being deployed, but they will be there. 

Silva is doing enough, I don’t expect his game plan to work every week, but then I’m pretty realistic. I don’t know what it is you expect, all I know is the more you talk about these things you sound like you either made a point and won’t admit you were wrong about something or you are in disagreement with pretty much all other fans and pundits so probably don’t know what you’re talking about. When it’s complaining about how we’ve beaten teams who are better than us, I can only put it down to the latter. 

[Matt]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

Because you can’t use the same tactics against every team. Well, you can, but it would be foolish as not every opponent will have the same strengths and weaknesses. You have to play to limit strengths and expose weaknesses. 

Remember when we played Arsenal at home under Roberto and we beat them 3-0? Lukaku was played on the right to expose Monreal, attack the left back because he’s weak. Do the same thing against a team with a strong left back and it won’t work. So you adapt to your opponents. Even City with their unbelievable choice of options change tactic to exploit weaknesses and to combat strengths.

There are many ways to play 433, it might look the same when Sky show you before the match starts but everything inside the formation can work in many different ways. That’s where a good manager makes his money. 

Wenger famously didn’t concentrate on the opposition, made it all about what Arsenal did. Worked a treat when they had some of the best players in the world, when they weren’t as good and he still wanted to do this he would get out played by Tony Pulis on a regular basis. We know who the better manager is from the two of them, but one was adaptable on the day and exposed the weaknesses of a much better team. 

Every game is different, every opponent is different, they all should be treated as such. 

Tactics are one thing, but people often forget that managers give players individual instructions too, as you mention with the Lukaku vs Arsenal game. These subtle changes have a massive impact on the game. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

The differences will be where we have looked to exploit. We played wide against Palace as apposed to playing through the middle against United and Arsenal. Watching on TV I’ll never be able to see the tactical differences, only a small section of the pitch at a time  

As far as you can see we have done the same, as far as you can see. If you had the chance to ask Marco what was done differently there will have been various things. But you aren’t looking at the game as a tactical analyst would, or as a scout would, or as a coach would. You just look at it and assume it’s the same. 

Next time you see Coleman going inside the full back rather than around the outside, you can either assume we still play the same or see that a weakness has been identified and exploited. 

We don’t play the same every week, we start with a 433 formation at the base of the tactics, but you or I will never know all of the different tactic being deployed, but they will be there. 

Silva is doing enough, I don’t expect his game plan to work every week, but then I’m pretty realistic. I don’t know what it is you expect, all I know is the more you talk about these things you sound like you either made a point and won’t admit you were wrong about something or you are in disagreement with pretty much all other fans and pundits so probably don’t know what you’re talking about. When it’s complaining about how we’ve beaten teams who are better than us, I can only put it down to the latter. 

I’m the opposite; watching on TV gives me a much better idea of what’s going on

agree 100% with the rest. 

[Makis]

Pete, do you actually watch the matches? Or are you just incapable of understanding what you see?

[pete0]

4 hours ago, StevO said:

The differences will be where we have looked to exploit. We played wide against Palace as apposed to playing through the middle against United and Arsenal. Watching on TV I’ll never be able to see the tactical differences, only a small section of the pitch at a time  

As far as you can see we have done the same, as far as you can see. If you had the chance to ask Marco what was done differently there will have been various things. But you aren’t looking at the game as a tactical analyst would, or as a scout would, or as a coach would. You just look at it and assume it’s the same. 

Next time you see Coleman going inside the full back rather than around the outside, you can either assume we still play the same or see that a weakness has been identified and exploited. 

We don’t play the same every week, we start with a 433 formation at the base of the tactics, but you or I will never know all of the different tactic being deployed, but they will be there. 

Silva is doing enough, I don’t expect his game plan to work every week, but then I’m pretty realistic. I don’t know what it is you expect, all I know is the more you talk about these things you sound like you either made a point and won’t admit you were wrong about something or you are in disagreement with pretty much all other fans and pundits so probably don’t know what you’re talking about. When it’s complaining about how we’ve beaten teams who are better than us, I can only put it down to the latter. 

As far as I could see we have focused on the wings every game. Against United I saw it as Digne and Bernard being the main route forward. It feels we do exactly the same every week, the minor tweaks are missing and the tactical fights completely none existent. We play our way and that's that. Even the subs leave a lot wanting. 

2 hours ago, Matt said:

Tactics are one thing, but people often forget that managers give players individual instructions too, as you mention with the Lukaku vs Arsenal game. These subtle changes have a massive impact on the game. 

I've not seen any Lukaku moment from Silva. No specific weaknesses have been targeted and exploited as far as I'm aware. 

2 hours ago, Makis said:

Pete, do you actually watch the matches? Or are you just incapable of understanding what you see?

I'm very capable. That's the problem, I can see the issues. Did you watch the Newcastle game, do you agree with Silva's subs and the timing of them? Most fans would have been moaning we need a change. Just because Silva is a professional manager doesn't mean he's right. 

[Makis]

Yes, managers make mistake. Every one of them. They still know way more than us. 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

I’m the opposite; watching on TV gives me a much better idea of what’s going on

agree 100% with the rest. 

Each to their own Matt, I find watching live you get to see what happens off the ball a whole lot more. I don’t think you see as much of the defensive structure and off the ball work on TV. I guess it all depends what catches the eye. I know most games at GP this season I’ve seen different things from the centre halves at times, but I’ve only seen our away games on tv. 

[StevO]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

Tactics are one thing, but people often forget that managers give players individual instructions too, as you mention with the Lukaku vs Arsenal game. These subtle changes have a massive impact on the game. 

I’d consider these instructions part of the tactics myself. That particular game I remember fuming that Rom wasn’t getting into the box at the beginning. To be fair to Roberto, he was very good at these kind of details. Just not the same level of detail with his defenders. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

[Hafnia]

9 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

Whereas Fat Sam didn't show up till Wednesday after losing on a Saturday... went to spain.

[markjazzbassist]

22 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

Martinez was the same; I really like Marco and hope he has the staying power I really do.  Nothing would make me happier than him staying for 10 years and winning trophies.  

[StevO]

19 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Whereas Fat Sam didn't show up till Wednesday after losing on a Saturday... went to spain.

In fairness though, his place in Spain is lovely

[Hafnia]

1 minute ago, StevO said:

In fairness though, his place in Spain is lovely

Casa Del Bisto

[Shukes]

9 hours ago, StevO said:

11 according to your profile. 

Your obviously not looking properly. Stats don’t mean anything! 11 obviously means 15.anyone that thinks otherwise just doesn’t know anything about forums.

[Shukes]

PeteO, where did you predict we would finish this season? Don’t want to answer if you don’t want to.

[pete0]

16 minutes ago, Shukes said:

PeteO, where did you predict we would finish this season? Don’t want to answer if you don’t want to.

Without checking it would have been somewhere in the top 7, might have even been optimistic and said 4th.

Said 7th is a minimum for our managers now so Alladyce sacking was justified (although personally I'd have kept him an extra year to sort out the defence and central midfield). 

[Hafnia]

7 hours ago, pete0 said:

Without checking it would have been somewhere in the top 7, might have even been optimistic and said 4th.

Said 7th is a minimum for our managers now so Alladyce sacking was justified (although personally I'd have kept him an extra year to sort out the defence and central midfield). 

Yeah he could have sorted out the restricted viewing at goodison with another year.... in fact he could have enabled us to turn the park end into flats and make goodison the max 20000 capacity stadium would need for his brand of shite....

Sort out the defence and midfield? Yeah ... imagine him getting Digne and watching the lad get up the field like he does...... none of that nonsense.   Andre Gomes? Barcelona to allardyce footy..... yeah ok.....

 

Keep up the entertainment. 

 

 

[Aidan]

6 more goals scored, 14 less conceded, and 1 point more than last season despite having 6 more on offer.

We have improved, slowly but surly.

Next season will be the making or the breaking of Marco Silva, that's for sure.

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Aidan said:

6 more goals scored, 14 less conceded, and 1 point more than last season despite having 6 more on offer.

We have improved, slowly but surly.

Next season will be the making or the breaking of Marco Silva, that's for sure.

But none of that matters ... Peteo doesn't get anything wrong .... actually he does..... he just never admits he's wrong.... if he did he would have to be the first person to do so and go against the grain. 

[Gwlad]

5 hours ago, Aidan said:

6 more goals scored, 14 less conceded, and 1 point more than last season despite having 6 more on offer.

We have improved, slowly but surly.

Next season will be the making or the breaking of Marco Silva, that's for sure.

Don't worry, a poor start to the season and bookies will have him odds-on favourite to be the Prem's first casualty. Oh and TT will be interesting...….

[Matt]

17 hours ago, StevO said:

Each to their own Matt, I find watching live you get to see what happens off the ball a whole lot more. I don’t think you see as much of the defensive structure and off the ball work on TV. I guess it all depends what catches the eye. I know most games at GP this season I’ve seen different things from the centre halves at times, but I’ve only seen our away games on tv. 

Unless you’re central Upper Bullens or Main stand, you can’t have an overview in my experience. Maybe being abroad for so long has just adapted my interpretation. 

[Matt]

17 hours ago, StevO said:

I’d consider these instructions part of the tactics myself. That particular game I remember fuming that Rom wasn’t getting into the box at the beginning. To be fair to Roberto, he was very good at these kind of details. Just not the same level of detail with his defenders. 

They are but there are those who see formation as being the only part of tactics. That kind of individual man management often goes under the radar

[Hafnia]

The only perspective that gives you a true understanding of what is going on is deffo in the mid the upper tiers.

Its something that puzzles me.... managers deffo need a coach up there  or do so and time up there themselves. 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Unless you’re central Upper Bullens or Main stand, you can’t have an overview in my experience. Maybe being abroad for so long has just adapted my interpretation. 

I sit in the upper gwladys, I’ve got a pretty central seat and a good over view. When I used to sit downstairs I couldn’t see a thing. 

My old man argues that you can’t read the game at all from and end and can only see it from the side. We’ve had that argument every year for about ten years now. 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

They are but there are those who see formation as being the only part of tactics. That kind of individual man management often goes under the radar

I know it does mate, that’s the stuff that makes the difference between a decent and a great coach. Anyone who watched the City documentary will see the level of detail Pep went into, and they only show a snapshot. 

There was a player on talk sport a few months back talking about this. It might have been Ryan Mason, but im not sure. Anyway, whoever it was said that his club gave all of the players an iPad after they had their debrief from the previous game. They would each walk out the meeting room to a table with an iPad with their name on, with detailed info on the next match. From details of how the opposition played, to how your individual counter parts would play. If you were a fullback you would have info on wingers, strikers, fullbacks and midfielders, details of each ones favoured foot, runs they make, passes they make, areas they shoot from, load and loads of info. Then the same again on the weaknesses of each of these players. Then the plan set out in how to expose these weaknesses, where you could overload, where to look in transition, where the keeper is dodgy. They would then be asked to study this info before the game, they would go into the briefing the day before the game and be expected to know the plan. Not just the starting 11, the whole squad would have to know it as you wouldn’t know if you were playing or not. But this level of detail was out there a few years ago, I’m sure it’s even more specific and detailed now. I find it all fascinating. There can be 11 battles all over the park, but you only have to win one of these battles to win the game. It’s what makes coaches like Pep so good, it’s probably also why he needs time off every few years. 

[pete0]

On 01/05/2019 at 08:14, hafnia said:

Yeah he could have sorted out the restricted viewing at goodison with another year.... in fact he could have enabled us to turn the park end into flats and make goodison the max 20000 capacity stadium would need for his brand of shite....

Sort out the defence and midfield? Yeah ... imagine him getting Digne and watching the lad get up the field like he does...... none of that nonsense.   Andre Gomes? Barcelona to allardyce footy..... yeah ok.....

 

Keep up the entertainment. 

 

 

How did he have Jay Jay Ococha playing? 

Sammy Lee tried to get Bolton playing better football, they then ended up getting relegated. Stoke spent £200m and still ended up relegated. 

On 01/05/2019 at 10:15, Aidan said:

6 more goals scored, 14 less conceded, and 1 point more than last season despite having 6 more on offer.

We have improved, slowly but surly.

Next season will be the making or the breaking of Marco Silva, that's for sure.

His job is to get us top 7, mingling with the top 6. The gap is just as big as last year. 

The team last year was dreadful. I'd expect the team with 5 extra starters to be bettering last year's by more than that and close the gap. 

19 hours ago, Matt said:

They are but there are those who see formation as being the only part of tactics. That kind of individual man management often goes under the radar

Marco come with the reports that he was meticulous but there's been no sign of it since he's been here. There's no subtle changes nothing is different game to game. It's the same tactics, same runs being made, same passes. More annoyingly it's not making clear chances but we are still persisting with it every week. 

17 hours ago, hafnia said:

The only perspective that gives you a true understanding of what is going on is deffo in the mid the upper tiers.

Its something that puzzles me.... managers deffo need a coach up there  or do so and time up there themselves. 

Top balcony is great for viewing the party. Baffles me too that they don't have a coach relaying info to the manager there. 

[Matt]

22 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Marco come with the reports that he was meticulous but there's been no sign of it since he's been here. There's no subtle changes nothing is different game to game. It's the same tactics, same runs being made, same passes. More annoyingly it's not making clear chances but we are still persisting with it every week. 

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean nothing is happening. I see a massive improvement in quality and energy in our play, I see a good run against the top sides (which we would've been battered in in past seasons) and a good run of keep sheets (something we spent months unable to achieve). There have been many changes, nearly all for the better, and considering that's been done in under a year, considering the shitstorm he inherited, I think he's done very well. 

If we see the same issues and league position next year, then I'll worry. But his task was to wipe the stench from the club that was the last manager and undo the clusterfuck made by Koeman et al. He's largely done that, along with Brands, and given us a much better base to build on for next season

[pete0]

35 minutes ago, Matt said:

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean nothing is happening. I see a massive improvement in quality and energy in our play, I see a good run against the top sides (which we would've been battered in in past seasons) and a good run of keep sheets (something we spent months unable to achieve). There have been many changes, nearly all for the better, and considering that's been done in under a year, considering the shitstorm he inherited, I think he's done very well. 

If we see the same issues and league position next year, then I'll worry. But his task was to wipe the stench from the club that was the last manager and undo the clusterfuck made by Koeman et al. He's largely done that, along with Brands, and given us a much better base to build on for next season

What evidence is there that it is happening? 

Only difference is the players. Look at motm threads and you've got Gomes, Digne, Richarlison prominent. The players that come in have been the difference. If Silva took us over instead of Sam we'd have been a lot closer to relegation. If Sam had stayed we'd be a lot closer to the top 6. 

As for beating the top sides they're not in great form, all three we beat have been beaten by worse teams than us this season. Even Crystal Palace won away at Arsenal. Both Arsenal and Man U have lost 4 of their last 9. We didn't win because of our manager, they are just plop atm and especially on the day with Arsenal missing half their squad and Man U not even trying. I'd expect is to have won those games with any manager at the helm. 

His job is to challenge the top 6 and he's failed miserably. 

[StevO]

Just because YOU don’t see the difference in the tactics, that doesn’t mean it’s not there, just that you’ve not seen it. 

[StevO]

19 minutes ago, pete0 said:

His job is to challenge the top 6 and he's failed miserably. 

You are not realistic.