Marco Silva

[Romey 1878]

9 hours ago, Finn balor said:

Because he’s the manager? I’m not sure it’s any stronger than the last mangers who had the same criticism. Can someone tell me what Marcos away record was last year? That’s like saying my ex doesn’t take it up the arse and my missus doesn’t either. At the end of the day I’m still not happy

I get that, totally, but people are acting like this has only arisen since Silva arrived. It's not a Marco Silva problem. It's an Everton problem.

Yeah, he does need to sort it, of course he does, but clearly it's not something that's easily fucking remedied because manager after manager has had the same problem to contend with and hasn't been able to. So I reckon I'll cut him some slack on this and not beat him round the head with it.

[Bill]

I think you'll struggle to find any team that wins more away than at home, it happens to all clubs even the "Top six".

[Gwlad]

10 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I get that, totally, but people are acting like this has only arisen since Silva arrived. It's not a Marco Silva problem. It's an Everton problem.

Yeah, he does need to sort it, of course he does, but clearly it's not something that's easily fucking remedied because manager after manager has had the same problem to contend with and hasn't been able to. So I reckon I'll cut him some slack on this and not beat him round the head with it.

So at whose door do we lay it given that we have had a massive change of playing personnel along with the changes of managers?

[Bailey]

20 hours ago, Finn balor said:

You could say he didn’t have to change kean for DCl or play Morgan? Throwing his arms up then slumping in his seat didn’t really fill me with confidence either. I like Marco and want him to succeed but his away form with hull and Watford were awful and so is ours. Don’t get me wrong he was managing poor players for Hull but our away fans deserve more. Apart from the Burnley game last season I’ve not seen    Him take the shackles off and go for teams throats. 

I'm not sure if you are blaming the first two on Silva or not but a lot of managers, successful ones do the things you are pinning on Silva. 

From what I have seen of Silva he doesn't play that way so I don't know why you would expect that. This isn't Pep, Emery or Klopp. Bar the odd game Spurs don't do that either, Mourinho never did, Benitez didn't either. 

14 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

 

Silva's job is to instil confidence and form into players. It's such an easy and naive thing to say its the players who make the mistakes and they're on the field so they are the ones to blame. Do you think that Liverpool's team would play with such confidence and attacking threat without Klopp's training methods and man management skills? That team would be completely different if they played under a manager with different ideas. Yes the odd howler from a defender/keeper can not be down to a manager but these are consistent issues due to how the team is instructed to play and what they have been doing on the training pitch all week. He has had 12 months now. I can't see improvement. Simple.

The away form prior to Silva is nothing to do with Silva. The form under him is. The fact that it was poor before he came along is just because we've been poor generally for a long time except the one season under Martinez.

The home form this season has just papered over the cracks anyhow with two average performances against the two worst sides in the premier league so far. Lets not mask it as anything else. This man will never get us into the top 6. I was very hopeful and optimistic when we got him. Getting a manager who was young, ambitious with no apparent ceiling gets you excited. I was wrong. 

It's anything but simple and that's part of the problem with these type of or arguments.

Did Klopps methods help Karius? Did Pep's help Stones? The list goes on. The Delph goal is a complete one off and when that goes in it changes the game and then the 3rd is another error as regardless of you think is to blame one of the two CBs just doesn't read the bigger picture. That isn't someone with a lack of confidence or having not been coached well enough it's a split second decision in the heat of the moment. Players will get them wrong. 

In terms of improvement I disagree. It has been noted in a lot of places as to how much more aggressive we are. We have had another pre-season of changes and we still weaknesses upfront and at the back. Look at how much Liverpool and City had to spend to get the players needed to make them the teams they are now and they both started from a much higher bar than Silva has with us.  

You also talk of breaking the top 6 as if it is easy. 4 of the top 6 have elite managers, the other 2 have club legends at the begining of their careers with elite squads and then you have a serial winner in Brandin Rodgers at Leicester, Pellegrini at West Ham and mixture of other up and comers and old hands that know how to pick up points. I think the biggest problem for a lot of our fans is that they expect us to finish in the top 6. It's should defintely be an ambition, our first step along with a cup, but any team can beat anyone in this league and if you don't believe that just ask City fans.

[Bailey]

28 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

So at whose door do we lay it given that we have had a massive change of playing personnel along with the changes of managers?

How about we give the manager time to try and change that problem? 

It's not an easy thing to do, just look at Poch at Spurs. They still choke. 

[Romey 1878]

43 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

So at whose door do we lay it given that we have had a massive change of playing personnel along with the changes of managers?

I’m saying that people are acting like Silva brought this problem, that before he arrived we had this fantastic away record. We didn’t, it was shit. It’s shit now, definitely, but it smacks of going looking for a reason to have a go at him. 

The zonal marking on the other hand...

[Gwlad]

But is it that once a player pulls on an Everton shirt they are running scared when away from Goodison? I know it's not that simple but why does it keep repeating?

[sydneyneil]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

I'm not sure if you are blaming the first two on Silva or not but a lot of managers, successful ones do the things you are pinning on Silva. 

From what I have seen of Silva he doesn't play that way so I don't know why you would expect that. This isn't Pep, Emery or Klopp. Bar the odd game Spurs don't do that either, Mourinho never did, Benitez didn't either. 

It's anything but simple and that's part of the problem with these type of or arguments.

Did Klopps methods help Karius? Did Pep's help Stones? The list goes on. The Delph goal is a complete one off and when that goes in it changes the game and then the 3rd is another error as regardless of you think is to blame one of the two CBs just doesn't read the bigger picture. That isn't someone with a lack of confidence or having not been coached well enough it's a split second decision in the heat of the moment. Players will get them wrong. 

In terms of improvement I disagree. It has been noted in a lot of places as to how much more aggressive we are. We have had another pre-season of changes and we still weaknesses upfront and at the back. Look at how much Liverpool and City had to spend to get the players needed to make them the teams they are now and they both started from a much higher bar than Silva has with us.  

You also talk of breaking the top 6 as if it is easy. 4 of the top 6 have elite managers, the other 2 have club legends at the begining of their careers with elite squads and then you have a serial winner in Brandin Rodgers at Leicester, Pellegrini at West Ham and mixture of other up and comers and old hands that know how to pick up points. I think the biggest problem for a lot of our fans is that they expect us to finish in the top 6. It's should defintely be an ambition, our first step along with a cup, but any team can beat anyone in this league and if you don't believe that just ask City fans.

I know how competitive it is but since moshiri has come in we have outspent most in the league by quite a distance. That’s why there is more of an expectation to break into the top 6. We have spent. Big. Our front four cost about 160 mill.

i don’t see any improvement. Aggressive is an adjective I wouldn’t associate with Everton whatsoever. Weak more like

[StevO]

52 minutes ago, sydneyneil said:

I know how competitive it is but since moshiri has come in we have outspent most in the league by quite a distance. That’s why there is more of an expectation to break into the top 6. We have spent. Big. Our front four cost about 160 mill.

i don’t see any improvement. Aggressive is an adjective I wouldn’t associate with Everton whatsoever. Weak more like

Look how much city spent during their development, but by the time they started winning things a lot of those initial players had been moved on. 
 

spending doesn’t guarantee anything. 

[sydneyneil]

2 hours ago, StevO said:

Look how much city spent during their development, but by the time they started winning things a lot of those initial players had been moved on. 
 

spending doesn’t guarantee anything. 

Yes I agree Steve. It doesn't guarantee anything at all. It definitely raises expectations though. Success is basically a combo of spending and good management. For me we are just lacking the latter. Alan Myers' podcast this week has Tony Grant on who's over here in Brisbane with Robbie Fowler. He speaks a lot of refreshing sense about Everton's start to the season. We lost our best player, and we have no ready made number 9. He also points out that by continuing to buy players at the end of the window is unfair on Marco and I can see that. As everyone wants to believe that the sun shines out of Brand's backside, no-one wanted to criticise another window where we are scrambling round on deadline day. We are playing catch up right away. It's so frustrating, we should have our players well in by then. 

[Cornish Steve]

Having read through the recent comments, I thought I'd post my own thoughts on the situation.

First, let's not panic. The team is being rebuilt, and players are still getting used to playing alongside one another. Yes, I agree that Silva is not proving himself to be a great tactician, and he's making too many changes while the team tries to gel, but things will improve. I'm quite impressed with the players we've brought in, even while Gbamin and Sidibe have hardly had a sniff. Mina and Keane, in particular, are a key partnership, and it's going to take another month or so before they build a better understanding. Digne is an excellent player, and I can't wait for Sidibe to replace the aging Coleman on the right.

Our bigger problem, I would say, remains in midfield. We didn't bring in the dominant presence we needed, so we have a bunch of players who play too cautiously and too slowly. This, too, should change over time - at least, I hope so. I really don't understand why Schneiderlin remains in the team: That role should belong to Davies. Delph's experience will help more and more as time goes by. My biggest concern is the same as last season: Sigurdsson disrupts the shape of the team. I'm not disputing that he's a good player, but it's not clear to me how and where he fits, and we shouldn't be configuring the team just so he fits in. I think we'd do better with him sitting on the bench, quite honestly.

I'm definitely with those who are calling for both DC-L and Kean to start each game. Their combined energy should help Richarlison catch fire, and, with Iwobi's trickery, we could have a very powerful front line.

I don't get why we play so poorly away from home, and there's no excuse for it. If I remember correctly, Martinez had a better away record than home record one year. Of course, I don't want our home form to drop, but we really ought to be winning games against the likes of Aston Villa and Bournemouth whether home or away.

The more difficult games will soon be coming up, and I hope we'll have settled enough to continue our form from the end of last season. Provided Silva doesn't keep swapping players in and out each week, teammates should have a better understanding by then, and maybe that will speed up our play.

Finally, someone mentioned that all must be well because our players love the manager. To me, this is a bit worrying. They shouldn't love the manager: they should respect the manager and know he expects nothing less then their very best every single moment of every single game. They should know they'll get a rocket if their effort drops. The best managers are not loved, but the players would not want to play for anyone else.

[StevO]

5 hours ago, sydneyneil said:

Yes I agree Steve. It doesn't guarantee anything at all. It definitely raises expectations though. Success is basically a combo of spending and good management. For me we are just lacking the latter. Alan Myers' podcast this week has Tony Grant on who's over here in Brisbane with Robbie Fowler. He speaks a lot of refreshing sense about Everton's start to the season. We lost our best player, and we have no ready made number 9. He also points out that by continuing to buy players at the end of the window is unfair on Marco and I can see that. As everyone wants to believe that the sun shines out of Brand's backside, no-one wanted to criticise another window where we are scrambling round on deadline day. We are playing catch up right away. It's so frustrating, we should have our players well in by then. 

Surely you must think if they could have got them in earlier they would have? They won’t have spent the summer doing nothing. 

[sydneyneil]

I’ve no idea how it happens Steve. You certainly don’t see the top teams scrambling round though on deadline day

[StevO]

1 hour ago, sydneyneil said:

I’ve no idea how it happens Steve. You certainly don’t see the top teams scrambling round though on deadline day

Im not convinced we were scrambling round. Liverpool didn’t strengthen much, neither did City. Spurs were still clinging on to their players after our window had closed. United took all summer to sign Maguire. Chelsea had a transfer ban. Arsenal picked up David Luis right at the end as they still hadn’t got the defenders they wanted. 
Some deals took longer than others, like Iwobi was in Dubai when the offer was accepted. So then he’s had a think about if he fancies the move, then flown in. Chances are he wasn’t the first choice. Barca and Real were both still trying to get Neymar up until the end of the window. Transfers are getting more and more complicated each year. It’s not like a club puts an offer to make one single payment, it gets accepted and then they agree a deal with the player. It’s much much more complex now. Agents for all parties will be involved, payments are always staggered now so there will be financial guarantees being put in place, lawyers will be involved to keep liabilities in check. Big transfers used to take days, now they can take weeks. We started on the Kean deal in January! But deals evolve and change as each different party has their input. 

Marcel is known for being at the top end of the spectrum, of it’s taking him a while to get a transfer done I’d think that’s how long it takes. Got to have some faith mate. 

[pete0]

12 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Finally, someone mentioned that all must be well because our players love the manager. To me, this is a bit worrying. They shouldn't love the manager: they should respect the manager and know he expects nothing less then their very best every single moment of every single game. They should know they'll get a rocket if their effort drops. The best managers are not loved, but the players would not want to play for anyone else.

This. Saw an article on skysports about OGS, Rashford basically saying he understands the life of a footballer compared to Mourinho. I read into that as OGS being weak and not instilling discipline. 

[Finn balor]

Totally agree. I was speaking to my mate who is a united fan. Saying lingard, rashford are too interested in building their own brands etc and football is a like a hobby. Imagine Ferguson having that? He also said this mate drives the under 19s around on the coach and says the young lad Greenwood is a horrible arroagant little twat 

[Sibdane]

19 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Finally, someone mentioned that all must be well because our players love the manager. To me, this is a bit worrying. They shouldn't love the manager: they should respect the manager and know he expects nothing less then their very best every single moment of every single game. They should know they'll get a rocket if their effort drops. The best managers are not loved, but the players would not want to play for anyone else.

Ask Liverpool if they only respect their manager and not love him. You can have both. Same with Pep. Ridiculous statement. Can you not respect your father and love him too?

Steve, you're obviously an intelligent person, but sometimes you come off as "out of touch."

[Finn balor]

9 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

Ask Liverpool if they only respect their manager and not love him. You can have both. Same with Pep. Ridiculous statement. Can you not respect your father and love him too?

Steve, you're obviously an intelligent person, but sometimes you come off as "out of touch."

Not sure the respect your “father” thing is applicable to premier league millionaires if I’m honest. Hudson odoi has just signed a £180k a week deal at 18. At the top end of the scale when they are getting huge amounts, playing good football and enjoying themselves and their managers are in that state too that’s fine what’s not to love? Every day must be like dancing on candy floss. Unfortunately the manager is only respected now if he has good players and they are performing well. Player power is the be all and end all. Zidane is going to tarnish his legacy at Madrid 

[Sibdane]

@Finn balor This is probably the worst post you've ever made. Money doesn't solve everything.

[StevO]

10 hours ago, Finn balor said:

Not sure the respect your “father” thing is applicable to premier league millionaires if I’m honest. Hudson odoi has just signed a £180k a week deal at 18. At the top end of the scale when they are getting huge amounts, playing good football and enjoying themselves and their managers are in that state too that’s fine what’s not to love? Every day must be like dancing on candy floss. Unfortunately the manager is only respected now if he has good players and they are performing well. Player power is the be all and end all. Zidane is going to tarnish his legacy at Madrid 

I think your feet would get really sticky, I wouldn’t like that. 

[Finn balor]

12 hours ago, Sibdane said:

@Finn balor This is probably the worst post you've ever made. Money doesn't solve everything.

That’s my whole point

[Cornish Steve]

18 hours ago, Sibdane said:

Ask Liverpool if they only respect their manager and not love him. You can have both. Same with Pep. Ridiculous statement. Can you not respect your father and love him too?

Steve, you're obviously an intelligent person, but sometimes you come off as "out of touch."

So you think any player much liked Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson? I doubt it, but they fought tooth and nail for these brilliant managers. You can’t lay into a player or pull them from the game when they’re your best buddies. That’s not how management works. 

[Cornish Steve]

18 hours ago, Finn balor said:

Not sure the respect your “father” thing is applicable to premier league millionaires if I’m honest. Hudson odoi has just signed a £180k a week deal at 18. At the top end of the scale when they are getting huge amounts, playing good football and enjoying themselves and their managers are in that state too that’s fine what’s not to love? Every day must be like dancing on candy floss. Unfortunately the manager is only respected now if he has good players and they are performing well. Player power is the be all and end all. Zidane is going to tarnish his legacy at Madrid 

To a player earning $100k or more a week: “I couldn’t give a flying fig how much you earn, and don’t think because we drank together at the Christmas party we’re buddies. I told you to play a certain way and play as if your life depends on it, and you ignored me. You’re out and you’ll stay out until you learn who’s in charge - prat.”

Silva needs to learn this. We’re playing today with no passion, like a bunch of kids who enjoy the fun of playing a game with friends. To heck with that! Let’s see some anger, some passion, some urgency, as if you get paid squat unless a jury decides you gave it your all. 

[Sibdane]

22 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

So you think any player much liked Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson? I doubt it, but they fought tooth and nail for these brilliant managers. You can’t lay into a player or pull them from the game when they’re your best buddies. That’s not how management works. 

You completely ignored my point. You can have both. 

There's a big difference between buddies and love. I'm sure you can find players who both loved and respected Sir Alex and Clough.

[markjazzbassist]

27 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

So you think any player much liked Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson? I doubt it, but they fought tooth and nail for these brilliant managers. You can’t lay into a player or pull them from the game when they’re your best buddies. That’s not how management works. 

clough hasn't been in the game in decades, SAF in almost a decade.  you're out of touch steve, its 2019, the players make loads more than the managers.  it's a different day and age and game.

[Cornish Steve]

I know plenty of talented employees who earn more than their bosses, but they still demonstrate immense respect to them when they are capable. Money really shouldn’t be a factor here. A great manager is a great manager because of ability, not because of how much he/she or their team earns. I repeat, in my experience: a buddy-buddy relationship undermines effective management. 

[Finn balor]

I’ve said this before and someone missed my point. These players are multi millionaires and they have all the power with regards to transfers etc. There won’t be a Clough or a Ferguson anymore because the game has obviously changed however it’s the managers job to find a way to connect with the players. I made zidane as the example. He doesn’t seem to be a players player and won’t last. Same as moutiniho. The best managers like Pepe, klopp, Simone have passion and don’t take prisoners.

[StevO]

I’m not one for a knee jerk, and I won’t, but if there was the chance we could bring in Mourinho I’d be more than happy. 
 

Still think it’s early days though. 

[markjazzbassist]

No chance on mourinho he’s linked to Madrid since zidane is on the hot seat.  I’d rather we stuck with Marco till the end of the campaign and got our man this summer if we do get rid of him.  I would trust brands to choose the right man.  Hopefully Moshiri will let him if it comes down to that.

[chicagoblue]

4 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

No chance on mourinho he’s linked to Madrid since zidane is on the hot seat.  I’d rather we stuck with Marco till the end of the campaign and got our man this summer if we do get rid of him.  I would trust brands to choose the right man.  Hopefully Moshiri will let him if it comes down to that.

Wait till the summer? It's still the summer. If we let this pool of talent spoil for the year we'll be a long way off taking the step we've been pretending to take for years now.

 

I tend to hate everything Mourinho, but at the moment I tend to agree that we could do with a real authority in the managers dugout. When the going gets at all tough Silva does not inspire.